Following Recipe's

[bruce m]

How many here strictly tie by recipe or somewhat deviate from that recipe but basically still following one. I ask because I find myself more and more that I disregard tried and true recipe's and just going for what I think might "look good" or might attract fish in my mind, I am by no means an experienced tier, off and on for a few years out of the last ten or so and I really don't deviate because I think I know better, I just seem to move that way just to try new things I guess. So my question, do you pull out the recipe book or do you letyour mind wander on the vise. You might be able to tell it's been raining here an awful lot lately and I'm getting bored, hence the strange question.

edit to add to flies born out of boredom, and ya know what I guess everything has been done because no matter what I do I am sure it has been done and written down somewhere.

 

[Jimmie]

I deviate all of the time. It may be to try a different variation. It may be to use materials that I have currently available rather than ordering.
NOW; the person that taught me to tie; has flies published in his name; has tied for 70+ years; never deviates. I've seen it too many times. He will only follow a recipe to the "T". I sort of admire that even though I occassionally get frustrated with it.

 

[gt05254]

There are several flies that I don't mess around with. Bob Warren's Golden Pheasant Spey is one that I tie to the original specs. I know what that fly can do as originated, so I tie it just as Bob designed it. Just not as well as Bob ties it. Others, streamers like Gray Ghost and Green Beauty I've found do much better (for me) changed up a little. I don't tie wall-hangers, I tie fishing flies, so if I make a change from a classic pattern, its for a reason. To fool fish. It's all about what works...for me.
Gary

 

[bruce m]

Wow 70+ years, he would be the one to learn from, But even he must have deviated once in a while, I mean he deviated enough to produce a new fly and then have it published unless I'm not understanding how that is accomplished.

 

[gt05254]

I would submit that it's not deviation that produces a new fly...that would just be a variation on a theme, so to speak, a variant.

While one might be working within a "genre", say streamers or salmon wet flies, so there is some sort of "form" generality perhaps, a truly new fly owes nothing except tradition to its predecessors.

Gary

 

[bruce m]

Okay I get that. let me ask this as a related question, does anyone feel it is actually wrong to vary from the prescribed materials and should not be done, and the reason I ask this is because I was watching a vid on tying a certain fly and in the comments one person got all over the tier for not following the recipe as it was originally written, I do mean he was really upset by it. It just struck me as real strange that anyone get that bent out of shape for another persons version on something so unimportant, in the grand scheme of things I mean.

 

[gt05254]

There's a great phrase that will get you through this conundrum:

Your hook, your rules.

 

[bruce m]

Lol. I love it and am living it.

 

[gatortransplant]

Nice flies Bruce, they look fishy to me but what do I know! I'm no fish! The first one looks like a chubby copper john variant to my inexperienced eyes?

 

[Ard]

Hi Bruce,

I see from your location that you live in the heartland of traditional fly tying. Although I have no problems with variants on themes when it comes to making flies I do believe that the old school patterns have much to offer. By 'offer' I mean to say that however we may try, certain things simply can't be improved upon. By learning to tie such patterns as the Ginger Quill or Gorden Quill we learn important lessons in the age old art of proportioning and detail found in the traditional dry fly construction. The same may be said for the nymph or wet fly but there seems a greater leeway with these styles even when we look at them in a historic context.

Whether we as new age tiers strive to replicate something that has been a standard for generations or if we set out to create styles on our own, the benchmarks made through the workings of our fly tying fore bearers are valuable examples of the craft. Often we strive to break the mold of conformation and to assert or make a statement of individuality but we should try to remember that many patterns have been tried and proven over many years. If I or you wish to actually claim to be skilled fly tiers we should have mastered the patterns that laid the foundation on which we are building our claims on. At that point we are free to vary the themes to our hearts content without fear of being ridiculed for our creativity.

New combinations of color & materials surface every day, probably in numbers that would boggle the mind given the popularity of fly tying. It is pretty cool to be able to flash a box that contains a well tied compilation of traditional patterns as well as one who's contents are of your own design. So I guess what I meant to say was; variations are cool but knowing the old school ties is cool too

 

[williamhj]

I vary the recipes all the times - sometimes intentionally, sometimes just because I am not able to pull off the proper pattern. I think it's great to experiment. In fact, last month I caught a nice brown on a pheasant tail nymph I tied with a red thorax. One thing I wonder about though, just because something looks buggy to me when it's sitting in the vise does not mean it will look buggy to the fish. That's where I think the tried and true patterns have a leg up, but I'm going to keep trying new things.

 

[gt05254]

I would certainly agree that, whether you have a sit-together mentor or have to learn from books like I did, that learning about proportions and how materials work together from established patterns is the way to go. Once you've got that down, it's your hook...
Gary

 

[bruce m]

You know Ard, you hit on something very true and something I know I struggle with, and that is proportioning and the elegance that the old style flies had, coupled with that it seems a traditional recipe had just the right amount of flash to go along with the other materials. I am not advocating that we abandon traditional tying by any means, actually I think it needs to be preserved for the very reasons you have said, but I have noticed, not here, that some tiers actually get upset when the recipe isn't followed to a tee and I think that is a bad way to stifle the creative part of this sport/hobby/life.
All this talk of the traditional tying makes me want to pop on over to the Catskill Fly Fishing museum, it's yet another rainy day and what better way to get the traditional juices flowing.

 

[Rip Tide]

learning about proportions and how materials work together from established patterns is the way to go. Once you've got that down, it's your hook...
Gary

That's the key I think. Established patterns work for a reason and some were "tweaked" for years to get that way.
Once you have the experience to recognize the triggers, you can incorporate those in to other less developed flies or you own creations

 

[Liphookedau]

I like nearly everyone else tend to deviate & try modifications to Patterns,the main reason is usually the original materials are not on hand or unavailable,also in different countries lots of flies are tied differently.
I'll agree,in the first B/H Nymph I can see a little of Prince,Zug Bug & Copper Johns,should be a good fish catcher.
Brian.

 

[wt bash]

I almost never follow recipies, almost. As Ard and Gary have said there are those patterns that should be tied the way they were designed. Then there are others that beg to be tweeked to fit local conditions.

 

[bigjim5589]

I do & I don't! Although I seldom tie from specific pattern recipes anymore.

If I'm tying an established pattern that's new to me, I'll likely follow the recipe, unless I'm missing a specific material & can substitute something similar that I know will not adversely change the pattern.

Many of the flies I tie are styles, rather than specific patterns. For example, Lefty's Decievers, which can be tied with many different materials, yet are still the same style fly. I also substitute materials, just because I prefer some materials to others. For example, I hate tying with biots, and most of the time I'll substitute rubber or silicone leg material in place of biots. Yes, it's a widely used material, but I've never felt it's a good material. They tend to kink when fished, have little or no movement to them, and are a pain to tie IMO! Pet peeve of mine I guess!

I've been tying for a long time, and there are materials I like to tie with, and qualities of those materials I know that are effective, so have no doubts about making substitutions in known patterns, or when experimenting with my own patterns. I would bet most tiers with substantial experience will have determined such things & do the same. :shades:

 

[Jimmie]

Okay I get that. let me ask this as a related question, does anyone feel it is actually wrong to vary from the prescribed materials and should not be done, and the reason I ask this is because I was watching a vid on tying a certain fly and in the comments one person got all over the tier for not following the recipe as it was originally written, I do mean he was really upset by it. It just struck me as real strange that anyone get that bent out of shape for another persons version on something so unimportant, in the grand scheme of things I mean.

Maybe that person should be asked, "Who started tying Frank Sawyer's PTN with a peacock thorax". Here's Mr Sawyer tying his original pattern: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=416Os9V84n8]Frank Sawyer Tying a Pheasant Tail Nymph - YouTube[/ame] . Even though I post this I have the utmost respect for those before us. Whenever I can I try to perpetuate the history and traditions. I never tie a PTN (even with a peacock thorax) that I don't think of it as Sawyer's PTN.