Down eye vs straight eye

[quimby]

As a beginner the one thing that is daunting is actually selecting the materials.

I was at a local fly shop and was just staring at the wall of hooks. I went to the fly shop with the specific purpose of buying materials to tie some compara/sparkle dun.

The material list called for Tiemco 100. As I was looking for the hook, I noticed the Tiemco 101. I didn't think anything of it and just got the 100s, but when I got home I started to think about the straight eye hook.

When would you use a "straight eye" hooks vs. a "down eye?"

 

[williamhj]

If you do some searching you'll find other threads discussing this is great detail, sometimes with great passion.

I don't think about it too much and use both. The one time I prefer a down-eye over a straight eye is when tying parachute patterns, since it gives me a touch more room between the hackle and the hook eye. But I'll happily tie them on straight eyes if it's what I have around. I like the look of down-eyes better personally, but don't think it matters fishing.

 

[moucheur2003]

I like the look of down-eyes better personally, but don't think it matters fishing.

My feeling as well. Beck before the days of gossamer nylon monofilament tippets and improved clinch knots, an up- or down- eye was needed to set a Turle knot properly. You would often see dries from that era tied with an up-eye and wets with a down-eye, for reasons that I don't really understand. Now that thinner nylon makes knots like the Improved Clinch possible, though, the position of the eye against the shank doesn't direct the position of the leader, so the bent eye is no longer necessary. But it's still traditional.

 

[quimby]

If you do some searching you'll find other threads discussing this is great detail, sometimes with great passion.

I don't think about it too much and use both. The one time I prefer a down-eye over a straight eye is when tying parachute patterns, since it gives me a touch more room between the hackle and the hook eye. But I'll happily tie them on straight eyes if it's what I have around. I like the look of down-eyes better personally, but don't think it matters fishing.

That confirms that I still suck at using the search function. I tried searching "down eye hooks" and it just gave me search results for "hooks".

Thanks. Now that I think about it, the down-eye flies do look better.

---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------

My feeling as well. Beck before the days of gossamer nylon monofilament tippets and improved clinch knots, an up- or down- eye was needed to set a Turle knot properly. You would often see dries from that era tied with an up-eye and wets with a down-eye, for reasons that I don't really understand. Now that thinner nylon makes knots like the Improved Clinch possible, though, the position of the eye against the shank doesn't direct the position of the leader, so the bent eye is no longer necessary. But it's still traditional.

I have no idea what gossamer nylon or a Turle knot is, but I'll take your word for it.

Sometimes it is best not to mess with tradition.

 

[audax]

If you get to tying the tiny stuff, say #22 and smaller, you may prefer a straight eye. A bit easier to form a neat head and less obstruction to the gape.

 

[moucheur2003]

I have no idea what gossamer nylon or a Turle knot is, but I'll take your word for it.

Sometimes it is best not to mess with tradition.

I meant modern monofilament leader material, which is made of nylon. Before they invented nylon monofilament, leaders were made of silk and were much thicker, and knots made in them were weaker.

A Turle knot passes through the hook eye and is tied around the shank.

Turle Knot | Knot Tying | Survival Knots

Thinner nylon tippets made it possible to tie the leader directly to the hook eye rather than the shank, with knots like the Improved Clinch.

 

[williamhj]

That confirms that I still suck at using the search function. I tried searching "down eye hooks" and it just gave me search results for "hooks".

Here's one of the threads, if you want to read through it. Actually some interesting discussion, but you'll see my view hasn't changed much for better or worse.

 

[fredaevans]

Just personal perspective here, but I'll take a pass with down eye hooks, especially the small ones. All that eye does is fill in the gape between between shaft/hook point.

The other question (for me anyway) is what does the pull of the leader do to a up eye, down eye or 'Siwash' ring eye. With the straight eye the leader pull is straight on line with the hook point. For me, this brings a lot to the Party.

For jollies take three hooks (up/down/straight) and attach a couple of foot of leader. Put hook around a round bit of something (pencil, chop stick, what-ever) and do a straight pull. Where does that hook point go under tension? :secret:

Will hook design increase/decrease the odds of a solid grab? I'm sure it does, what's the best? I have no clue. Well one. The Salar Doubles are extraordinary.

If you can find the damned things!

fae

 

[turbineblade]

It doesn't matter to me -- both work.

 

[flytire]

It doesn't matter to me -- both work.

same here.

i'm sure thee are logical reasons to use one eye over the other. i'm not gonna loose any sleep over it.

i like to tie my thread midges on tiemco 101's & sometimes wooly buggers on the daiichi straight eye hook. everything else is on down eye hooks.

+ most fish dont know the difference

 

[jcw355]

Just personal perspective here, but I'll take a pass with down eye hooks, especially the small ones. All that eye does is fill in the gape between between shaft/hook point.

Thats part of my reason for using 2488 style hooks

For jollies take three hooks (up/down/straight) and attach a couple of foot of leader. Put hook around a round bit of something (pencil, chop stick, what-ever) and do a straight pull. Where does that hook point go under tension? :secret:

Without doing it, down, up, down. Correct Fred?

 

[moucheur2003]

For jollies take three hooks (up/down/straight) and attach a couple of foot of leader. Put hook around a round bit of something (pencil, chop stick, what-ever) and do a straight pull. Where does that hook point go under tension?

Depends whether the leader is tied to the eye (with a knot like the Clinch) or the shank (with a knot like the Turle).

 

[wt bash]

I think about the bend of hooks more than whether its up or down eye.

 

[silver creek]

If you get to tying the tiny stuff, say #22 and smaller, you may prefer a straight eye. A bit easier to form a neat head and less obstruction to the gape.

This is often repeated but not true. How does a down eye hook narrow the "gape/gap" which is define as the distance from the hook point to the shank? Whether the hook is large or small, the gap remains that defined measurement.

The material tied on the hook opposite the hook point is what narrows the hooking gap. so for small hooks, use minimalist techniques to preserve the hook gap.

What limits the ability of the fly to "hook" fish are:

1. The width of the hook gap.

2. The alignment of the hook point with the hook shank.

Therefore, to improve the hooking ratio, you can:

1. Widen the hook gap by using a wide gap hook to tie the fly.

2. Offset the hook point to one side of the hook point. When the fish closes his mouth on the fly, the offset point will be pointing toward the flesh. Bending the hook point a bit to the side on the stream will improve the hooking ratio when you are missing fish.

On tiny hooks, the hook eye becomes a more significant part of the fly silhouette. It occupies a greater proportion of the hook length and a straight eye hook adds to that appearance. The hook eye adds to the appearance of a longer body and needs to be considered when matching a hatch of small insects.

After replying to a post about hook sizing on another BB, I sent a photo I used to Gary Borger. His blog post about hook sizing and including the eye of the hook in the length of small flies to match insect sizes is below.

Note that the hook eye adds 20 - 25% to the length of these size 16 length hooks. That is a significant difference in length as the fish perceives the pattern to be.

Gary Borger » Blog Archive » All Hooks are Not Created Equal