Question on tying flies.

gzarboni

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This coming February will mark my first anniversary of tying flies. I have followed patterns and watched videos and listened to advice from other tiers.
This winter I would like to up my game. I want to start tying my own flies and creating my own patterns.
I am coming to the conclusion that I have to better understand my quarry for this to happen. What I am struggling with right now is how different materials are affected by water. How do I know what materials mix well together? Is there anything out there to guide you on what materials work well together? Do I tie a fly, take it to the stream and watch it behave then modify?
Any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks
GLEN


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littledavid123

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[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Cravens-Basic-Fly-Tying/dp/0979346029/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1416244510&sr=1-3&keywords=flytying+books"]Charlie Craven's Basic Fly Tying: Modern Techniques for Flies That Catch Fish: Charlie Craven: 9780979346026: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51maKAS6wSL.@@AMEPARAM@@51maKAS6wSL[/ame]

This is a wonderful book for beginners and experienced tyers, it would be my first book to buy.

Dave
 

silver creek

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Designing Trout flies is also a book.



My question to you is to examine your motives.

Why do you want to design your own flies? I can think of several reasons. Is it because you want the satisfaction of catching a fish on a fly of your own design? Is it because think/want to invent a pattern that will become a standard? Is it because you want to "invent" an entirely new style of fly, like the ceramic flies that I recently posted about? Is it to address a certain fly fishing situation that can be solved with a better fly? Is it to design as simpler way of tying a fly that will be just a successful as a more complicated pattern. Is it just curiosity and tinkering?

There are thousands, if not tens of thousands of different flies. Many work but only a relatively few of them stand out. Many have been written about in magazines, and then they fade away because they are no better than the proven patterns. For example, think of how many different foam grasshopper patterns have been "invented" in the last 10 years. How many of them work better than the simple and time tested Madam X as a hopper/stonefly pattern?



My recommendation is that make a list of flies that have been proven through by the test of time to consistently take fish. Put those into categories. For example the parachute adams, the Klinkhammer, the Quigley emerger are all suspender patterns. They suspend flies in the film.

Once you have the categories and lists, examine how you might modify or design a variation or a new construction method, uses a new material, add a color that improves on that patterns. The popular Purple Haze is a simple color change of a parachute adams.

How to Tie a Purple Haze | MidCurrent

 

gzarboni

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Thanks Silver. The main reason for me is that I have never been one to follow others. I love to tinker. I love to try new things. I don't want to create the next new hot fly. I tie flies for me and a few friends. Like you said, the satisfaction of catching a fish on something I created would be satisfaction enough.


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silver creek

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An easy way to start is to use some different materials on a proven pattern. For example, snowshoe rabbit foot fur is water proof and can be substituted for CDC or deer hair on wings, just like cdc has been used as a substitute for deer hair wings.
 

BigJim2x

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Another thought for the tinkering bunch: Get a small aquarium and when you tie something drop it in the water and observe how things look and act.

I am not a tier (yet) but I have been collecting some materials and tools. I did take a tying class last winter but have not spent the time to develop any skills - life is too busy but my plan is to get into doing it (and I did pick up an aquarium as a freebie for the above stated purpose).

2x
 

JoJer

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I especially liked "The Orvis Streamside Guide to Trout Foods and Their Imitations" by Tom Rosenbauer, though most tying guides will show you the main bugs that are most available to fish, and the imitations. I mention this because you get to see the real bugs and the flys/materials that look like bug parts. I do a lot of substitutions of materials aiming for the look of bug parts, rather than following a pattern precisely (and consequently having to buy a different bit of expensive fluff).
 

flytire

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Dropping flies into a bowl of water is a poor way to judge how/if a fly will float.

throwing a fly into an artificial environment (glass of water, bowl of water or even the bathtub) doesn't provide the actual environment the fly was design to be used in. sure it may show you the flies footprint in a static environment but that's not how flies are USUALLY fished

will your fly react the same way when casted onto a river moving at 3000cfs as it does in the artificial environment?

Try tying them on your tippet and actually fish them.

sorry just my opinion

check out the new fly tester. get the water moving

http://flymenfishingcompany.org/products/fish-skull-products/fly-tester/
 

Ard

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Hi Glen,

I too have a long winter to spend tying for the 2015 season and intend to make the best of the time. I am about to purchase a 'Fly Test Tank' so that I can fine tune my streamers - tubes and Sculpins as they are being made. I've seen home made tanks but after talking to the folks who put them together I decided that one which is made exclusively for the purpose of swimming streamers will be the best and more affordable course for me.

Thus far I've relied on the years of experience at tying what seems to work but I have also made some duds that didn't preform well at all. The little tank will be pretty much of a science project for me as I work at designing subsurface lures that should look fun to eat to a fish. A good rule for mixing materials on subsurface lures is to use heavy materials that don't flow like marabou as your base and tie softer feather & fur over them. This layered tying helps to support the softer materials like marabou and bunny fur so that they don't end up plastered against the hook shank when facing currents. Thus far I've been doing well with my designs but am looking forward to playing around while trying to come up with some new 'good flies'.

If you use this link; Flymen Fishing Company scroll down a little to the 'Fly Test Tank' video and you'll see the idea. I have opted for this tank because it is much more compact than an aquarium and will set on my desk top without hogging all surface area.

Pretty cool and I'm looking forward to its arrival :)

Ard


I took a second look through the replies and saw that the link to the Fly Tester has already been provided......... oops. I'll let you know what I think about them soon.
 
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bigjim5589

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I was going to suggest the test tank that Flymen are producing, but Ard beat me to it. :D

I don't have one, but it appears to be a good tool if you're that serious about testing your flies before you hit the water looking for fish.

When it comes to designing your own patterns you will likely find that there is little that has not already generally been done. In that regard, most of our "new" designs are variations based on older patterns. Most anyone who has been tying for any length of time knows which materials they can or cannot substitute in patterns they may tie frequently, and that's often what new patterns amount to.

As far as flytire's opinion, I agree with him. However, some static testing can be advantageous for comparing materials & learning about the properties of those materials in water. How it acts in air will not be how it acts in water.

I used to test flies in my swimming pool in the warmer months, but that didn't provide an up close view. It was great for observing the action, although as flytire also said, did not allow for moving water situations. Although with streamers I could place them near the filter pump outlet & see somewhat how they would act in a current. That was of little value with topwater flies unfortunately. I miss having a swimming pool now! :(

Tying a section of tippet to a fly & viewing it in an aquarium can give you some ideas about material uses & comparisons between materials you substitute, so there is some value in it when it's the only method you have available.

To your question. Much of that knowledge only comes from tying experience & experimenting with different materials. There may be general knowledge in print or online, such as what Silver Creek said about substituting various materials for the wings in his example. This may not tell you how each material acts on it's own or for other purposes.

IMO, much can be learned simply by comparing materials visually. For example, fur such as opossum, rabbit & fox all have some similar properties, all being rather fine textured, but also have distinct properties. Each of course has different natural coloration, but that doesn't affect the movement of the hair. Color may be a consideration for why you might want to use each for a specific pattern. Opossum usually has more guard hairs and a distinctive shine to those hairs, while rabbit often lacks the number of guard hairs that Opossum has ( but not always, each animal is different). Fox is similar to rabbit, but has a different appearance to the underfur & is of course generally longer. You could however use any of these furs in a fly pattern with similar results, depending on the pattern type.

I substitute Badger fur for calftail in Crazy Charlie & similar patterns. I first learned that I could when I got some badger & compared the two materials visually. I had to remove the guard hairs in the Badger however. Turned out they both have similar motion when in water.

On many occasions I've looked at a new to me material & could see the potential in what I could tie with it, based on experience with similar materials. I may not have had a pattern in mind when I obtained the material. It wasn't until afterwards that I realized what it could be used for.

There are many materials with similar properties. The trick of course is learning what they may be & why you would choose one over another. The best way of course to do that is taking the time & expense to try different things & compare them for yourself.

You do have the advantage of the volumes of knowledge from forums such as this one. That can shorten the learning curse, er curve some. ( It might be a curse too at times! So many materials, so little time!:rolleyes:) But, there's never a substitute for first hand knowledge and that will require the investment of time.

The down side to all this is the time & cost of tying flies that may not prove productive. In my early years of tying I had many. Not so much now. Now, when I attempt to tie something "new" I have confidence it will catch some fish. That's the difference in all the years it took me to get this far & I'm sure others have experienced the same. ;)

Just my 2 cents. :rolleyes:
 

randyflycaster

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Forgot to mention: I found this book helpful - though somewhat dated in terms of synthetics - and you can pick up a used copy dirt cheap:

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Fly-Tying-Materials-Their-Procurement-Protection/dp/0517503506/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1416492756&sr=1-2&keywords=fly+tying+materials"]Fly-Tying Materials: Their Procurement, Use, and Protection.: Eric Leiser: 9780517503508: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510W1a0UE3L.@@AMEPARAM@@510W1a0UE3L[/ame]

Randy
 

gzarboni

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SWEET! Thanks a lot. I am really excited with all the responses. I guess I will have my work cut out for me.


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red feather troutbum

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This coming February will mark my first anniversary of tying flies. I have followed patterns and watched videos and listened to advice from other tiers.
This winter I would like to up my game. I want to start tying my own flies and creating my own patterns.
I am coming to the conclusion that I have to better understand my quarry for this to happen. What I am struggling with right now is how different materials are affected by water. How do I know what materials mix well together? Is there anything out there to guide you on what materials work well together? Do I tie a fly, take it to the stream and watch it behave then modify?
Any help will be greatly appreciated, thanks
GLEN


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There have been a lot of good recommendations here, as I was reading the string a couple things came to mind; if you are not already, start learning the bugs in your area & their habits, get a net, collect them, have a little plastic bin & watch their movements etc., in turn that will help you with your ties as you learn the materials etc. Another thing I would recommend is the video by "The Bug Guy" which is a basic entomology course focused on foot trout eat which will also help you take it up a level, beyond that, tons of practice; try new patterns and attend tying demo's if you can, or search for them online. Read everything you can get your hands on but know there are a lot of fads that come and go so take cutting edge tying with a grain of salt...If you have a group of friends fishing your water, give them some of your inventions and ask for their feedback once they used them, don't be disappointed if your tinkering doesn't produce stellar results, most of mine went the way of the buffalo but a few are now highly sought after in my group of fishing buddies, enough to keep me in free beer on the weekends anyway, which is a nice problem to have.
 
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