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  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Snake, Clearwater and tribs
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    658

    Default Re: Tying thread question

    Ard, those are nice! Need to try your method on steelhead patterns. -Dave

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Montrose, CO.
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    1,244
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    Default Re: Tying thread question

    Quote Originally Posted by eastfly66 View Post
    " Tying at the show ? " If I was still a drinking Man I might be tying one on at the show but those days are long gone. I do plan on buying at the show....materials. The 16/0 for 28's fills in another gap, I do tie small for a local tailwater.
    Lol. I thought you were tying.

    To simplify thread, IMO, is to simplify what you can tie efficiently. One thread is a pain in the arse in some cases and yet excels in others. I have a line-up of threads to make me faster and cleaner.

    Thread is so inexpensive but used on every fly. Thread and dubbing are the easiest ways of altering the vast majority of patterns; that is trout patterns.

    If you're really a streamer guy, you don't need much in thread. The UTC family and GSP should be all you'll ever need.

    My simplifying started at learning what materials could be substituted so I didn't find myself buying something "special" for a single pattern. 99% of the time the "special" is for us tyers or to make them not worth the time tying so we are buying. Lol.

    Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk
    Nice fish! Do you have anymore pictures of it lying in the dirt?
    As publicity increases so does the propensity of tripping over yards of mono attached to a Dipsey sinker.

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  4. #13

    Default Re: Tying thread question

    Nice Ties Ard!

  5. #14
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    533

    Default Re: Tying thread question

    I still subscribe to 3/0 (salt patterns) 6/0 (trout patterns) thinking. Danville of course.

  6. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Maryland - Gunpowder River
    Posts
    113

    Default Re: Tying thread question

    A few questions -

    When do you use floss vs thread? How many strands and when do you use them?

    When do you use vinyl ribbing?

  7. #16

    Default Re: Tying thread question

    Im using vinyl rib right now for stonefly patterns and floss for soft hackle bodies , strand count depends on the size of the hook. I'm sure there are lots of other patterns for the materials but that is what I'm on now.

  8. #17

    Default Re: Tying thread question

    I mostly use .008" (or .2mm) clear mono, or thread in 6/0, or 140-150 denier. But I tie 80% streamer and baitfish patterns. On any pattern I do, I may use 2-3 different threads. I may lay down a white base along the shank and trim and glue it. Then tie the bulk of the fly with a mono. Then go back and add a black for a spot behind a baitfish eye, or red for a gill. I find thread to be one of the cheapest, easiest [to manage and store] ways to dial in a pattern and make it yours. Floss is great because it comes in such vibrant colors. Use it for egg sacs or hot spots, but it is not strong so you cant put much tension on it. I like to use it under palmered flash bodies.

  9. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    MD Suburbs of DC
    Posts
    2,680

    Default Re: Tying thread question

    Quote Originally Posted by eastfly66 View Post
    I am looking to symplify my thread assortment and with the show coming I plan on stocking up. I have accumulated a number of spools but in various deniers. This is the result of being an impulsive tyer and jumping on whatever pattern grabs my eye in the moment...dam that utube.

    Anyway, what I am thinking is I should be able to be fully stocked with getting all the popular colors in 70 , 210 and Flymasters flat waxed for the big salt stuff. I likw UTC because they label the color and have that little cap to keep the loose thread end not in use.

    What do you guys think ? will UTC 70 & 210 cover most all fresh water or do I need 140 also ? What about these 6/0w and 8/0w I have ? I can't even remember what I got them for but I'm guessing something small.
    I'm not 100% sure I follow your question. So here's my attempt at a response...

    I would sort your thread by denier (not label). For example, UTC 70 is the same as 8/0, and UTC 140 the same as 6/0. If you put all these threads together UTC 70 and anything 8/0 in one batch and filled in any missing colors with your favorite thread, you would have a complete set for small trout flies.

    I would suggest purchasing UTC 140 and combining it with anything 6/0 you already own, and fill in colors as needed. This is a good size thread for many regular size trout patterns.

    I only use the UTC 210 stuff for larger streamers and only own 5 colors.

    The big difference, and this may be an oversimplification, between thread is weather it lies flat (UTC, VEEVUS, Danville, etc) or not (UNI, Orvis, etc). On the spools, they usually have either the groove you can put your tread in or a notch cut in the edge of the spool at an angle. Both designs will hold thread securely so it doesn't unravel on you. If a notch doesn't exist, a careful cut at an angle with a razor blade will fix the problem. I would not let your miss-matched brands be a negative or a cause to purchase something different - if this was what you were thinking.
    Todd

    "If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles."
    ~ Doug Larson

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  11. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Bennington, VT
    Posts
    1,547

    Default Re: Tying thread question

    Veevus 14/0 for everything.
    Gary

  12. #20

    Default Re: Tying thread question

    Quote Originally Posted by eastfly66 View Post
    I am looking to symplify my thread assortment and with the show coming I plan on stocking up. I have accumulated a number of spools but in various deniers. This is the result of being an impulsive tyer and jumping on whatever pattern grabs my eye in the moment...dam that utube.

    Anyway, what I am thinking is I should be able to be fully stocked with getting all the popular colors in 70 , 210 and Flymasters flat waxed for the big salt stuff. I likw UTC because they label the color and have that little cap to keep the loose thread end not in use.

    What do you guys think ? will UTC 70 & 210 cover most all fresh water or do I need 140 also ? What about these 6/0w and 8/0w I have ? I can't even remember what I got them for but I'm guessing something small.
    The way I approach tying thread is to consider the properties of the thread first.

    If we think whether a fly rod is made of bamboo, graphite, or fiberglass is important, why do we most often ignore whether a tying thread is made of GSP, nylon or polyester as the first consideration in the properties that we want in a tying thread? Most threads are either nylon or polyester just like most rods are fiberglass or graphite.

    Nylon and polyester have different properties. They are both about the same strength so that is not a great issue. However, nylon STRETCHES about 25% and polyester stretches about 15% before breaking. NYLON also takes dyes better than polyester so nylon threads can come in brighter colors.

    Stretch is important in fly tying. It can be both an advantage and a disadvantage. The ability of nylon to stretch means that the stretch can warn a fly tyer when a nylon thread is about to break, Polyester threads have less stretch and give less of a warning. So nylon is an easier thread for beginners.

    Nylon threads then contract more and the fly body and wraps are tighter because the nylon tying thread contracts more. However, over time this contraction relaxes and the nylon thread loosens a bit. Polyester thread does not stretch as much so it loosens less.

    Then we need to consider whether the thread is flat, twisted, or bonded. Flat non bonded thread can be spit for spit thread dubbing. Flat thread can be twisted by spinning the bobbin when we want the tread to be round to hold materials with a tighter grip. Twisted non bonded thread can be untwisted. But many threads are both twisted and bonded and so their form is fixed. A flat bonded thread can be twisted into a round shape but it cannot be split.

    So a twisted bonded thread is the least adaptable, the flat bonded thread is next, and the un-bonded twisted and un-bonded flat are the most adaptable.

    Since it is easier to twist a thread than to untwist a thread, I prefer a FLAT NON BONDED thread because it is more versatile.

    Now on to your question.

    UTC in the 70, 140, and 210 deniers is a NYLON untwisted and un-bonded thread, so it is an excellent choice. It can be spit. The diameter of UTC is 0.028, 0.041, and 0.069 mm respectively for the 70, 140, and 210 deniers. Breaking strength is 450, 900, and 1800 grams respectively.

    Veevus is the alternative as a flat non bonded polyester thread. It has become very popular amongst tyers.

    So lets compare UTC 70, 140, and 210 to Veevus 16/0, 12/0, and 6/0 thread which are polyester untwisted and un-bonded threads. Veevus 16/0, 12/0, and 6/0 thread diameters are 0.038, 0.047, and 0.65 mm with breaking strengths of 430, 530, and 1000 grams respectively.

    Veevus is considered to be a very strong thread BUT we can see from the chart below where this data was published, UTC is actually stronger for diameter than Veevus. The difference in strength is explained by the fact that for a given diameter of the Veevus thread, there less material as measured by denier.

    For the respective Veevus 16/0, 12/0, and 6/0 threads that are about the same diameter as UTC, the respective deniers are 50, 70, 110 compared to UTC’s 70, 140, and 210 deniers.

    I think you have chosen well to use UTC as your thread.

    The data above was published in this chart Fly Tying Thread Table | Global FlyFisher | A large sortable table comparing more than 90 fly-tying threads.

    The appropriate section is posted below


    Last edited by silver creek; 03-08-2019 at 10:21 PM.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

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