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Thread: Mayfly body

  1. #31

    Default Re: Mayfly body

    My point being from the OPs perspective is this...can a trout decipher a dubbed vs a quill body on a fly? When trout get highly selective is the body material type used a characteristic that a trout can distinguish? I'd say for 99%+ of the population...no. Maybe over the smartest and most pressured fish in gin clear spring creeks they can see the dubbing type, color, sparkle, segmentation....but as a majority of the population even in these conditions they can't. But I'm not a fish.....what do I know?


    “If I fished only to capture fish, my fishing trips would have ended long ago.”
    ~Zane Grey

    " . . . shouldn't a man stand on his own two feet and catch his own steelhead? Maybe put out some effort and find his own fish just for the fun of it?"
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  2. #32

    Default Re: Mayfly body

    Though the replies in this thread have gone very, very far afield of the original question (Why do so many recipes for Mayflies use dubbing instead of quill bodies?) it has turned into a lively discussion.
    Regarding the idea of "conditioning," how long does this process take for a fish? I have caught very small, young trout with flies having a dubbed body. No dispute that they work. It seems that the conditioning for this behavior must be very short, or the trout are just reacting to some instinctual behavior (look, there's food) - therefore not conditioned or learned.
    Again, carrying the idea of conditioning forward... The Holy Waters of Michigan's AuSable River have been "catch and release only" for several decades now. The fish are not stocked so the same population persists for years. Yet, when caught they still fight the line. It has been shown that fish do not feel pain from the hook, so shouldn't they be conditioned to the fact that despite the hook in their lip and the tug of the line, they will be returned quickly to their home? And so, being conditioned to catch and release for many generations, why do they still fight?
    I remember a posting some time ago when the discussion was about catching trout with egg patterns, also a post about gold beads now becoming less effective. So, conditioning can apply but only in limited circumstances? Without committing the mortal sin of anthropomorphism how can we tell when it is anything other than instinct to survive? An instinct more finely honed in some fish than others?

  3. #33

    Default Re: Mayfly body

    For conditioning to occur, the same event has to happen repeatedly. The longer the time, the greater the conditioning. Think of a repeated hatch.

    After conditioning, there is extinction where a fish will continue hit a fly even after the hatch has passed. This happens after the Salmon fly hatch on the Madison River after the hatch has passed. This process is called "extinction" and takes a couple of weeks.

    Extinction (psychology) - Wikipedia

    As to fish being "conditioned" to give up because they have been caught and released repeatedly, consider the San Juan River. Folk's that fish the San Juan will tell you that there are fish that fight well below their size.
    Regards,

    Silver



    "Discovery consists of seeing what everybody has seen and thinking what nobody has thought"..........Szent-Gyorgy

  4. #34
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Mayfly body

    Quote Originally Posted by silver creek View Post
    For conditioning to occur, the same event has to happen repeatedly. The longer the time, the greater the conditioning. Think of a repeated hatch.

    After conditioning, there is extinction where a fish will continue hit a fly even after the hatch has passed. This happens after the Salmon fly hatch on the Madison River after the hatch has passed. This process is called "extinction" and takes a couple of weeks.

    Extinction (psychology) - Wikipedia

    As to fish being "conditioned" to give up because they have been caught and released repeatedly, consider the San Juan River. Folk's that fish the San Juan will tell you that there are fish that fight well below their size.
    I have Carp in my pond and they would at one time feed from my hand but neglect that for a week and they have forgot, so conditioning, with regards to fish, may well only be a factor if the same thing happens over and over at regular periods of time. I think most fish forget very quickly, certainly one particular trout I recall had a memory calculated in seconds as I caught the very same fish from the very same spot with the very same fly on three consecutive casts, I moved.

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