Drifting, Mending, Swinging And Hooking fish

Unknownflyman

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Fellow salmon and steelhead fly casters. As a new apprentice to spey rod fly fishing I have been watching YouTube videos of people around the world on spey rods hooking and landing everything from giant steelhead in B.C. to 50lb Kings in A.K. to atlantic salmon in north America, Sweden and the U.K. and tons of footage from the rivers in Oregon and Washington.
 
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fredaevans

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Post up the link to the Video; answer's I have but would like to see what this (I assume) fellow was doing. The water in front of you will control what you do for line control. Secondly is you want the fly going down stream first, leader second, fly line last. All that will straighten out about 1/3'rd of the drift due to water pressure.

And that's where the fun begins with mending, etc.

Fred
 

Unknownflyman

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Ok Fred I will have to find what I was viewing on you tube tomorrow. So many videos casting, gear, etc

I`d never expect anyone to spill their hard earned secrets I have mine too but I see lots of gear talk and casting but little on how to catch fish on a spey rod and control line. Not a lot of actual fishing talk.

I catch most of my steelhead and salmon on a horizontal dead drift with a short swing. I was going what the?? with all the down stream fishing and quarting downstream fishing at long distances.


I am hoping that my single hand style will be enhanced with being able to do what I never could. The line control looks amazing to me on a spey rod but everyone seems to be fishing a similar way and that is a little foreign to me. Lots of me going why? why? why? would`nt you stand over there and cast up there and drift to there and swing over there? Lots O questions on how people fish runs and holes.
 

Ard

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To follow or not to follow, that is the question.

After a fly has been cast into the flow there are a lot of things that one must train their mind and hands to do. A few of the control factors are current speed, depth, and whether or not you have a targeted zone where you expect there to be fish.

Think about the relationship between the rod tip (which represents the stationary terminus of the line. The fly represents the moving point of your action as it traveld down and comes across the current in its effort to come to a halt directly below the rod tip hanging in the current. All of the things that happen between when the fly lands and when it reaches the dangle straight bellow the rod tip are in the realm of control of the angler.

The mends either upstream or down are your means to control both the flies depth and its direction of travel to some extent. The position of the rod tip, your stationary point of the line to fly connection is your primary tool for controlling the speed of the flies course. The speed with which the fly travels can and will have an effect on the maximum and minimum depths obtainable given the waters speed. The mending is your way to counteract the varied current speeds and seams of current between you, the rod tip, and the fly which is moving but doing so in direct relationship to the mends and movement or lack there of in the rod tip.

If what I am saying is making sense then say so in your reply. At that point I will copy this text and augment it with additional thoughts based from experiences. I'll then post a thread wherein I'll expand on the concept of rod tip movement and the various results one can expect when this is combined with other small manipulations possible from your position while fishing a submerged fly.

Ard
 

Unknownflyman

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I will be honest, I kinda get what your saying but I`m usually going drag free and letting the current speed dictate the drift speed.

So how do I slow down the drift? usually by working the seams slower pools and trying to get the fly to sweep through the hold or run working the angles.

I never thought of leading or lagging before or trying to slow the fly down in a fast run before.

These are new drifting concepts I have not been exposed to.

I was always taught to keep as short as possible line and keep it tight to feel the hit and use only drag free drifts except for the swing at the end.
 
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Unknownflyman

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I already know I want a Scandinavian line and I think it`s going to be very useful for what I want to do. I`m going to take your advice and call Steve Godshall and talk to him about it and the conditions I fish but I`m going to learn to cast skagit first.

I can see for some types of fishing like on the St Louis river and other big rivers up here and traditional spey line would be good after watching traditional spey casting videos from Scotland. Now if I can through another day without freezing something off...
 

flycaster1977

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Just my thoughts. If u want to fish streamers and get to the bottom of the water column, a skagit line may be your ticket. Combined with fast sinking (mow) tips. Scandi line isn't well suited to swinging large flies and getting them down to the proper depth. An accomplished steelhead angler taught me that theres no mid water steelhead fishing. Its either on top or on the bottom. So thats how i go about it. I dont fish dries, even for trout, so naturally im draggin bottom.
A scandi line can get u down some using poly leaders, but its not gonna get u to the absolute bottom. Anyway, just something to think about.


Ben
 

Unknownflyman

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Just my thoughts. If u want to fish streamers and get to the bottom of the water column, a skagit line may be your ticket. Combined with fast sinking (mow) tips. Scandi line isn't well suited to swinging large flies and getting them down to the proper depth. An accomplished steelhead angler taught me that theres no mid water steelhead fishing. Its either on top or on the bottom. So thats how i go about it. I dont fish dries, even for trout, so naturally im draggin bottom.
A scandi line can get u down some using poly leaders, but its not gonna get u to the absolute bottom. Anyway, just something to think about.


Ben
Thank you Ben, I am going to start out with Skagit casting and you are right the Scandi line is for dry fly fishing for steelhead and coasters and expand from there I think there are some shallow water areas where scandi lines could work well for swinging too. My first line will be a skagit line and go from there.
 

Unknownflyman

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I like these guys, seem like your average Minnesotans.

At the end "Men with beard, catch more fish." That is true.
 
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blackbugger

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What he calls broadside, I normally upstream mend to get that fly to the bottom, he just lets is drag. I noticed this technique used on coaster brookies on the north shore. I`m going to have to try it. Seems wrong to me however.
The idea with the broadside presentation is to allow the tip and the fly to sink to a specific level and then move quickly across the run with fly being shown broadside to holding fish hopefully to elicit an aggressive response.
One thing you can do to get more depth in either of the approaches he shows is to step down after the cast and the mend, giving the whole rig a little more time to drop if more depth is desired.

Also one of the fun things about tips is that you can vary length and weight to consistently swing at pretty much any depth you want. The more you mess with them the more you'll be able to look at a run and know what you want to use to achieve the desired depth to swing.
The better you get to know specific runs the less time you'll spend trying to figure out how to get the proper presentation you desire.
Tips allow you to work anywhere in the river.

Regardless of how far you are able to drop a weighted fly before the swing actually begins the fly and line will rise in the water column, dependent on the current speed, when the swing begins.
Varying the length and grain weight of your tip will raise or lower where your fly swings.
Out here in the west we're trying to get uniform swings across the river, we don't typically want the fly to dart around, at all, especially in winter.
I'm talking steelhead here not trout.
The rule of thumb is usually to make the cast, make whatever adjustments, mends, you need and when the line comes tight allow it to swing.

Believe it or not you can mend a skagit and you can easily mend running line however you typically don't want to mend after the cast has been completely set up. You don't want the fly to suddenly move while it's swinging.
You can control the speed of the overall swing with the tip of your rod.
You can point the tip out directly across the river, holding your running line slightly off the water near you. As the line starts to reach directly downstream from your rod tip you can follow the line with your rod tip and control the final portion of your swing that way.

Skagits are actually extremely versatile tools for fishing at depth. Once you start messing around with them you'll discover a whole bunch of different ways to use them.
 
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Unknownflyman

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I found a cool video to share not really instructional but very interesting for us steelhead/salmon fishermen.


[ame=http://vimeo.com/116732014]Anglers Alibi 2014 on Vimeo[/ame]
 

fisher46

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I fished with Scott Howell On the Rogue for two day last year. He Is one of the designers of the skagit line system. Ed ward is the other. There is a couple other guys too who all worked the same lodge in Alaska together. I thought I was pretty good at casting, swinging a fly and working the current before I went. Wow! Did I get schooled. Scott is amazing with his casting fluidity and his knowledge. He is a fantastic teacher to those who want to learn and I enjoyed myself thoroughly. He took years off my learning curve I'm sure. I've heard guys refer to him as "the steal head whisper." The way he works a run was really eye opening. He said several time those two days "the next cast could be a fish" and he works a run that way covering it quickly and efficiently.
Hardyreels nailed it but, it is harder than it looks and I'm definetly still learning.
The current dictates how you mend a big one.
There is a series of videos you can get off Amazon called the Skagit Masters with Ward and Howell. Watch Ward's perry poke. Awesome. Also, the subtleties of Howell's double spey. 12' of t14 mo with a heavy squidro. Yikes! He makes it look easy.
 

runningfish

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Being new to this I have tons of questions like mending.
In single hand dead drift when the cast was much shorter than 2 hand, the line is easier to control by either mending it or high sticking it and stripping the line in. However, what about when casting 50ft up stream to dead drift a streamer and swinging it down stream? How do I control the line on the dead drift than change to down stream swinging? I must have missed something that very basic here.

I also watched a tube video of Travis Johnson coaching. He gave out an example of a wasting time up stream mend that would kill a drift or a cast. He then demonstrated the right way to mend by raising his rod tip and immediately kept the line tight. I kinda like his way to mend since mono running line is very thin. Any take on this?

By the way, I asked Steve to build me an intermediate skagit, let's see how it goes.
 

fredaevans

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Interesting to see this thread come back up to the top. As far as 'hook setting' a low 'sweep back', just over the water with the rod tip. Then the feel of the tail thump in the current. I should be so lucky.

Game on! :wavetowel

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 AM ----------

I like these guys, seem like your average Minnesotans.

At the end "Men with beard, catch more fish." That is true.


http://youtu.be/oxl8aaswF34


Here is a video that I saw about drifting and swinging, tell me what you think. Personally I think they could have started with anything other than banjo music

I think spey fishing videos should start with the cut The Wizard by Black Sabbath. I`ll save you the trouble of looking.

Black Sabbath http://youtu.be/YCjspyo-_aI



And now on to the fishing video, I think the content is good. Ignore also that his line is fowled up around his rod after that first cast....


What he calls broadside, I normally upstream mend to get that fly to the bottom, he just lets is drag. I noticed this technique used on coaster brookies on the north shore. I`m going to have to try it. Seems wrong to me however.




http://youtu.be/uq2TrQu0SGU

I have some more skagit and spey fishing videos to share later, I`m off to go buy a fly rod and some more tying materials, please feel free to share your favorite two handed fishing technique videos.
Look at the line on his rod ..... screwed up!:surprise:
 

Unknownflyman

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That was funny Fred:)

I really only have experience in single hand fish hooking of steelhead and salmon

I already posted my drifting and swinging stuff on hardyreels thread I don't need to post it again. Edited.
 
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