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Old 07-12-2017, 05:58 PM
treblig treblig is offline
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Default Come around full circle

Hi Everybody

I was a purist fly angler for many years and then moved to help develop beach fishing with ultra lite spinning gear for salmon for the last 20 years . Eg last year using a ultra lite rod I help develop 13 foot spinning rod catching and landing a spring salmon 22 pounds 4 oz on 8 pound test mono line.

I now have been given a 14 foot 9 wt spey rod to use on a British Columbia rivers mainly this year the Nanaimo River British Columbia for salmon. I have never speyed fish nor do I have the knowledge to complete the set up. I have watched lots of videos but still get mixed up.

I want to use a floating system with sink tips .I need to cast big and weighted flies on small rivers often casting within 50-80 feet.

From what size of backing, main line, heads , and leaders. In the past 20 years ago I experience welded loops breaking trying to handle large salmon. but technology advances so anyone like to share some info it would be welcomed.

The one item I know I want is a disc drag spey reel .

I would love to trade a sage sp rod for a spey reel but I can't post till I have posted 50 time..... I might get in trouble for that little slip


gil
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:36 PM
kentuckysteve kentuckysteve is offline
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Default Re: Come around full circle

Hi Gil.
A 22 lb salmon on 8lb test is pretty amazing.
I have no experience with a spey rod but a lot of the members here do and i am sure they will help you.
I just wanted to Welcome you to the forum.
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Old 07-12-2017, 07:37 PM
treblig treblig is offline
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Default Re: Come around full circle

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckysteve View Post
Hi Gil.
A 22 lb salmon on 8lb test is pretty amazing.
I have no experience with a spey rod but a lot of the members here do and i am sure they will help you.
I just wanted to Welcome you to the forum.
Thank you. It will be a learning experience but a good one.

gil

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckysteve View Post
Hi Gil.
A 22 lb salmon on 8lb test is pretty amazing.
I have no experience with a spey rod but a lot of the members here do and i am sure they will help you.
I just wanted to Welcome you to the forum.
Thanks you . Here is photo of the large spring and large coho landed with 8 pound mono [QUOTE]

Now looking forward a new experience with the spey

[IMG]Click the image to open in full size.[/IMG]
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 07-12-2017, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: Come around full circle

Gil

I'm real newly to two handed rods, so I can't provide much help, but I do know there is a pretty steep learning curve in trying to figure out what lines and tips to use get yourself setup. Ard is a long time spey fisherman and could provide some great advice, send a pm to Ard Stetts and ask your questions in case he doesn't spot your post.
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Old 07-13-2017, 04:47 AM
hairwing530 hairwing530 is offline
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Default Re: Come around full circle

gil,

I'd like to echo kentuckysteve's sentiments in welcoming you for the best fly-fishing forum anywhere! And, Larry's advice is spot-on. If you've got a Spey question, Ard is the guy to chat with.

Again, welcome aboard! And, by the way, nice fish...

Jerry, aka hairwing530
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: Come around full circle

Hi Gil,

These fellows flatter me with their recommendations, You'll need to provide some more detail about the rod such as brand. The rods can vary in what weight line will really bring them to life. The very best way to solve the questions would be if you have access to a shop that has some staff who know the game. Second choice would be a friend or acquaintance who is using a similar rod on similar waters effectively.

I will be going away for a while soon but if you reply before I depart I'll try to help you sort things out.

Ard
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Old 07-13-2017, 05:30 PM
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Default Re: Come around full circle

With a 9wt spey you could land 'Namoo the Whale.' Well you actually could. Kidding aside a 9wt is a 'big water/big fish rod,' think King Salmon. Under that probably 'over kill' for the most part.

But, if I"m guessing right, you're up in Canada and some of those fish really are that big. As for lines just two ... a full floater and a 10-12 front end sink tip. Between the two you have 90+% of the water covered for normal fishing.

fae
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:02 AM
treblig treblig is offline
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Default Re: Come around full circle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ard View Post
Hi Gil,

These fellows flatter me with their recommendations, You'll need to provide some more detail about the rod such as brand. The rods can vary in what weight line will really bring them to life. The very best way to solve the questions would be if you have access to a shop that has some staff who know the game. Second choice would be a friend or acquaintance who is using a similar rod on similar waters effectively.

I will be going away for a while soon but if you reply before I depart I'll try to help you sort things out.

Ard
Hi Thanks for the advice. I know 9wt is strong but you need that if your only targeting big salmon. Coho,spring and chum is the target this fall. For steelhead I would use a 7/8 wt. this year though, its the big boys
( salmon ).

I will check local shops but sometimes its only what they want to sell you.
I think for heavy and large flies I would go with a skagit head as I think its forgiving to a novice and is easiest to cast. But what head or sink tip. Should I be using a running line and if so are there difference. The rivers are small so maybe 50 feet to 100 feet cast.

I find there is so much choices it confusing.

thanks for everybody time

gil

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Last edited by treblig; 07-14-2017 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 07-14-2017, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Come around full circle

Many years ago in Michigan there was a rod designer, whose name I cannot recall now, who put together a super long, ultra light spinning rod. It was called a 'Bike rod" for reasons beyond my understanding. (Perhaps because it looked like a whip antenna some kids had on their bikes.) Anyway, it was used by a few fishermen who set class records in landing salmon and steelhead on 2 to 4 test mono lines. And these fish were taken in snag infested rivers with lots of underwater snags. Surely their landed to hooked ratio must have been very low but in the end they also brought some real trophies to net.

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DDB
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Old 07-14-2017, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Come around full circle

Quote:
Originally Posted by treblig View Post
I think for heavy and large flies I would go with a skagit head as I think its forgiving to a novice and is easiest to cast. But what head or sink tip. Should I be using a running line and if so are there difference. The rivers are small so maybe 50 feet to 100 feet cast.
The short head will definitely be the easiest way to enter the casting experience. When it comes to tips I'm guessing a 9 weight will call for a line weighing in the vicinity of 725 to 750 grains depending on the particular rods action. With a line of that weight you may be able to carry ten feet of T-11 or perhaps T-14, but may want to keep fly weight down until you develop your timing and stroke power to handle the line and tip.

[Edit] The most important thing to pay attention to is where the fly is at before you try to execute any cast with any line. It may be beneficial to use your cutters and snip the fly at the bend of the hook during practice. This will be a totally different experience in casting and knowing where that fly is at prior to a cast is the key to trouble free (read injury free) days on the water.

With that inserted I feel better.

I would suggest that you spend as much time as possible learning to cast with just the floating head and leader. This will provide the best chance for an easy entry into understanding the mechanics of the casting, anchor, timing and the like. When you move on to the sink tip and a weighted fly this will change everything. It will force you to speed up the casting strokes and may present the need for you to develop a higher rotation into the D loop position to raise the line as much as the head length will allow.

Once you have become used to the casting with just a floating line you will probably find that you are using rather compressed motions and keeping the rod rather low as you move into D loop and forward stroke steps. The sink tip and weighted fly will change the dynamics greatly. The timing must speed up because that tip and fly are going to sink as designed to do. This sinking while your line is in the 'anchor' position will result in 'stuck casts' unless you make adjustments to timing and height of the strokes and rod during the cast.

When a cast is 'stuck' the whole thing collapses rather quickly and goes nowhere. This problem is addressed by elevating the rod tip as you rotate into and out of the D loop position. I myself tend to elevate during the rotation and then lower the rod as I make the forward cast stroke. I also tend to make that forward stroke with a short but fast / powerful motion. The lift you put into the rod when using a weighted line and fly are what helps raise the tip and fly to just under the surface as you prepare to make the final delivery stroke. Often times my entire head is already off the water as I reach this point but the leader / sink tip and fly are what are providing the anchor and allowing the rod to fully load.

If you are casting either the floating line alone or the line with the sink tip and you hear a very audible 'poof' and the cast tends to start but quickly collapse this means your rod was too high and you had all the line out of the water prior to the forward stroke. The poof is the sound of the fly exxiting the surface but because there was no sustained anchor the rod did not load. That did not load thing is what caused a badly anchored cast to fail.

So there you have 2 situations, in one the anchor was stuck (too deep) and the line and rod even when both were working for the cast were unable to tear the tip out of the water. In the other case we were too quick or too high with the rod (or both) and there was no anchoring action to provide load at all.

While all of that may sound confusing it actually is not. The Spey style cast is a simple matter of the angler not rushing his or her development. Take time to think about what you are witnessing as you practice. If you have to advantage of having someone who would take video of you as you work at it that will be very helpful. You said you have watched many videos, if you can watch yourself you will have a basis for comparison.

At times I find it difficult to communicate all the various steps and nuances of casting to a person even when teaching them in person. Trying to write something clear enough to be understood is even more difficult. You have until fall, if you are the type who catches on quickly you'll be adequate by then. If you have difficulty then I would advise that on a trip to stick with what you know. There is also the chance that on a fishing trip, if you choose a guide or lodge service where they have casters on staff, those persons could groom you up quickly so you could enjoy swinging up some fish.

Do keep us posted as you progress,

Ard
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Last edited by Ard; 07-14-2017 at 05:08 PM.
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