I`ve been really think`in hard about getting a switch rod setup for fishing the Bighorn and Wind River Canyon for BIG trout. Seems to make al lot of sense if I could learn to spey cast and get were I need to w/ no room for a back cast...The water moves from 750-7500cfs with an average of 1400cfs. Right now I use a 9' 6wt Scott and that works well but I just cant get them bigger bugs were I need`em all the time. I`ve looked at the other threads on switch rods and that info was helpfull. I plan on getting a combo in 2 weeks and I`m look`in hard at the Echo or the TFO. Thing is, I dont think I need a reel that frig`in big. Both rods are a little heavier than I`de like and w/ that reel it`s over 1lb. Guess thats the price to pay. Any suggestions? I know that learning to spey cast on a swich rod might be a crutch but it would be good when the fish start rise`in, also, walking though big boulders and heavy brush a 10'10" rod makes sense. How about an Echo 7wt combo w/ the Rio switch line and a #4 Ross instead of a #5, think it`de work?
A switch outfit for trout?
- Thread starter wypatch
- Start date
MoscaPescador
Well-known member
You would be surprised how much backbone that the Echo 6 weight switch has in terms of handling fish and throwing hardware. One of my friends uses his 6 weight with the 390 grain Airflo Skagit Compact line with 10 feet of T-8 or 7.5 feet of T-11. When he wants to indicator fish, he puts on a 10 foot Rio floating MOW tip. Last week he landed three Steelhead ranging 23 to 26 inches on Intruderish style flies.
You may want to lean towards a 7 weight if you want to sling T-11 and T-14.
If you want to throw Spey style casts with larger flies, I would not recommend the Rio Switch line. It is a better nymphing line than a Spey line due to the longer belly. A shorter Skagit style head will throw large flies easier which means it should be easier on you.
As for reel sizes, a #4 Ross Momentum LT or CLA can hold shorter Skagit heads up to 425 grains with ample backing. If you desire more capacity, you can use a super braid line as backing. Keep in mind that you can also gain capacity by cutting 10 to 20 feet of running line.
MP
You may want to lean towards a 7 weight if you want to sling T-11 and T-14.
If you want to throw Spey style casts with larger flies, I would not recommend the Rio Switch line. It is a better nymphing line than a Spey line due to the longer belly. A shorter Skagit style head will throw large flies easier which means it should be easier on you.
As for reel sizes, a #4 Ross Momentum LT or CLA can hold shorter Skagit heads up to 425 grains with ample backing. If you desire more capacity, you can use a super braid line as backing. Keep in mind that you can also gain capacity by cutting 10 to 20 feet of running line.
MP
Maybee a 6wt would better suite me. Thanks for the info on the line too. This spey casting will be all new to me so bear with me, two years ago I didnt know what nymph`in was(still a bit new to flyfish`in) but its all took off like wildfire after spinfishing all my life...Whats T-11? I got a vid comeing in the mail on switch rod tech. so I`ll have a better idea of what I got look`in at me. Cant say how much I miss steelies! These Wyo trout make up for em good though.
MoscaPescador
Well-known member
T-lines are level tungsten impregnated lines that are used for sink tips. T-8 is a tungsten line that weighs 8 grains per foot. T-11 is a tungsten line that weighs 11 grains per foot. T-14 is a tungsten line that weighs 14 grains per foot.
I use a 6 weight switch here in Northern California. I probably target more resident Rainbow Trout than I do Steelhead. I find it suitable for the flies that I throw and the fish that I target. It's comforting to know that it has enough backbone for the local Steelhead as well.
MP
I use a 6 weight switch here in Northern California. I probably target more resident Rainbow Trout than I do Steelhead. I find it suitable for the flies that I throw and the fish that I target. It's comforting to know that it has enough backbone for the local Steelhead as well.
MP
Bigfly
Well-known member
Wypatch, Don't even hesitate.
In a season, you will be wondering how you ever lived without it.
And like I always say, when you go back to a 9' rod you will have much more game on.
MP is quite correct on line choices.
Ask yourself 2 questions. 1. do I Nymph more, than swing streamers, and 2. what is the maximum distance you may have to chase a fish downstream. Good idea to lose a little running line, but backing can be key.
Oh, and the 6wt is probably enough. Lighter, and you can always get the 7wt later.
Good luck, keep us posted.
Jim
In a season, you will be wondering how you ever lived without it.
And like I always say, when you go back to a 9' rod you will have much more game on.
MP is quite correct on line choices.
Ask yourself 2 questions. 1. do I Nymph more, than swing streamers, and 2. what is the maximum distance you may have to chase a fish downstream. Good idea to lose a little running line, but backing can be key.
Oh, and the 6wt is probably enough. Lighter, and you can always get the 7wt later.
Good luck, keep us posted.
Jim
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mikel
Well-known member
Jim, what do you mean by this?? What skills would I pick up and transfer to using a 1 hander?
Thanks! -Mike
Bigfly
Well-known member
Mike, It is a rare day when I aerialize my casts now. Even with a dry fly. (Except distances over 50-60ft.)
Far fewer tangles, and much more efficient fishing.
Every false cast you make is generally a cast wasted.
As a friend told me years ago, "ya can't catch fish with your line in the air". Don't hook bushes either.
I put a little fatter line on my 5wt. XP and do most things the same way as the switch.
If you come up this way, give a holler, we will walk the water.
It'd be good to see you. Keep up the fish photos!!!!
Jim
Far fewer tangles, and much more efficient fishing.
Every false cast you make is generally a cast wasted.
As a friend told me years ago, "ya can't catch fish with your line in the air". Don't hook bushes either.
I put a little fatter line on my 5wt. XP and do most things the same way as the switch.
If you come up this way, give a holler, we will walk the water.
It'd be good to see you. Keep up the fish photos!!!!
Jim
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mikel
Well-known member
Gotcha, thanks. Apologies to the OP for hijacking...-Mike
Bigfly
Well-known member
Mike, hijack any time.
Better wait a bit to walk water, Winter has seriously returned.
But it can't last forever.........
Jim
Better wait a bit to walk water, Winter has seriously returned.
But it can't last forever.........
Jim
wt bash
Well-known member
I fish a 5wt Batson Switch for trout and smallmouth, with a homegrown Skandit style head I cut from a RIO Grand 8wt. I took the line and cut to form 18' after a little experimenting I cut it again to 15'. Couple that with poly leaders and a sparsely tied bunny leach it'll reach out to 60' with a properly timed cast. 20" bows and smallies are a flat out blast and the little guys are fun too.
Well, heres where I stand. I need a rod that can get a 26+ very PO`ed bow to the bank in 7500cfs water but still fun to get the "schoolies" and fish lower water. I dont use streammers over a #2 and normally just through a #6 bugger. I`ll nymph if they dont chase my streammers but thats not often...almost all of the fish I get are over 18". The big questions I got are what line do I need, I will be learning how to spey cast with. What wt, it can start blow`in good in the canyon and I may need to cast in 20+ winds. Reel, the combo I`m looking at comes with a Ross CLA 5, I`ve had fish take over half my backing when the waters move`in (did`nt land them), I guess spey line is more bulky than normall line. Think I could use a #4 and be safe or is the #5 for me? The rod, would I be hurting my self learning with a 11' rod. I wonder if I should just start with a spey rod and go from there? How well do they work for dries? Thanks for all the advice!
MoscaPescador
Well-known member
Here is where I draw the line between 6 weight and 7 weight. It is the delivery system. If you feel that you need to deliver large flies with 7.5 to 10 feet of T-14, go with the 7 weight. You will need the heavier rod to deliver mass of the line, tip, and fly.
For what you want to accomplish, I would recommend the rod weight that you feel would work best in your situation, a shorter Skagit style shooting head with the appropriate tips and running line, and a reel that has the capacity for that fat line.
As for reels, use the CLA 4 with a 6 weight switch and the CLA 5 with a 7 weight switch.
I used to be part of the camp that learning with a full length Spey rod was the way to go for first time Spey casters. Back then the line selections were limited. I have changed my stance recently. With shorter Skagit and Scandi heads, people could learn just as fast with the shorter heads.
A switch rod is not my primary stick for a dry fly rod, but it still can be used as one. Skating large dry flies is an effective way to get a Steelhead. Sometimes I skate a large Chernobyl Ant for trout. Sometimes I'll throw a large hopper. Don't plan on getting pretty presentations.
Just wondering. What kind of input are you getting from the staff at your local shop?
MP
For what you want to accomplish, I would recommend the rod weight that you feel would work best in your situation, a shorter Skagit style shooting head with the appropriate tips and running line, and a reel that has the capacity for that fat line.
As for reels, use the CLA 4 with a 6 weight switch and the CLA 5 with a 7 weight switch.
I used to be part of the camp that learning with a full length Spey rod was the way to go for first time Spey casters. Back then the line selections were limited. I have changed my stance recently. With shorter Skagit and Scandi heads, people could learn just as fast with the shorter heads.
A switch rod is not my primary stick for a dry fly rod, but it still can be used as one. Skating large dry flies is an effective way to get a Steelhead. Sometimes I skate a large Chernobyl Ant for trout. Sometimes I'll throw a large hopper. Don't plan on getting pretty presentations.
Just wondering. What kind of input are you getting from the staff at your local shop?
MP
I have`nt asked much about it out here. There is a fly shop in Cody that offers spey lessons and I will make my way up there to talk to `em sometime. Think I will go with the 6wt #4CLA. I found a place called The Caddis Fly Shop on line thats got that Echo SR 6wt CLA #5 combo and I`ll call them when I`m ready to get the rod and hopefully they`ll sub a #4, unless I see someth`in I need to have in Cody that dont beak me. The combo also comes with a Airflo scandi 360 compact. Whats the diff. between that and a compact skagit? The 7wt. has the option of both lines and a "switch" line???I`ll try calling them tomarrow to see what they can do for me. I`ve learned a bunch here so far and it`ll be nice talking on the phone w/o feeling completly ignant. Thanks. I`m really get`in hyped about doing this, I thought about it a lot last year while I was untangeling my fly out of the bushes trying to get further out from the bank, cant wait to fish the other side
MoscaPescador
Well-known member
This article was written by Simon Gawesworth who is probably the brightest guy on Spey. It pertains to Rio products, but the concepts of Scandi and Skagit can be learned from it.
Compact Skagit = shortened Skagit style head
Compact Skandi = shortened Scandinavian style head
The Caddis Fly Shop might have a reason for using a CLA 5. You may want to ask the person why? My guess is that the staff feels that it balances better than the CLA 4.
MP
Compact Skagit = shortened Skagit style head
Compact Skandi = shortened Scandinavian style head
The Caddis Fly Shop might have a reason for using a CLA 5. You may want to ask the person why? My guess is that the staff feels that it balances better than the CLA 4.
MP
I`m a smarter man after read`in that. Looks like the swichline would fit me well. I could get an extra spool for a compact skagit and be set when all I`m doing is striping big steamers and use the switch as a go to line...I`m ordering my new rig this Sat. and cant wait to do this. I got the vid from Jeff Putnum`s and learned a lot from it.
HuronRiverDan
Well-known member
Dennis, great article, thanks for posting the link...
Dan
Dan
Oh yaaah baby, got my first two fish in the canyon today. Two bownies, 21" &18". Cant say enough about the rig I got. Got the 7wt Echo switch outfit w/ a Ross CLA#5 reel and Rio switch line and it rocks. After watching the vid by Jeff Putnan a bunch I headed out this morning pretty confenent I could do her and after a bit of practice I had it down and got the 21"er w/ a snake roll and a swing to a spot I would`nt been able to get too SH. Fish put up a real good fight and was a blast to catch on that 7wt...can`t wait till the waters MOVE`IN. I don`t think I`ll have a problem with a 30"er and 7500cfs this year. First chance I get I`m getting a spare spoll and a compact skaget head though. The swich line is great for shallow water and WOW, does it cast good SH but to fish the deep pools I see me needing a sinking line. Thanks to all who got me go`in the right direction!
MoscaPescador
Well-known member
I am glad that your current setup is getting you started. Wait until you get the Skagit rig figured out. You will be amazed on how much water will open up for you.
Jeff Putnam is a great instructor and person, as well. If you work your way to a Spey Clave, there is a good chance that he may be giving some demonstrations or clinics.
MP
Jeff Putnam is a great instructor and person, as well. If you work your way to a Spey Clave, there is a good chance that he may be giving some demonstrations or clinics.
MP
The only reason I went with the switch to start is to still cast SH close to the bank, and nymph. I seen that the switch line coudnt through the bigger flies well and thats another reason I`ll get an extra spool... With that skaget line I`m sure I will be set. I will make the most of this "switch" thing Right now the water is shallow and I dont think a sinking line would be real good. I never used one. How do you keep it out of the boulders in the middle of the river? I`m pretty sure I`ll be useing the skaget a lot when the water goes up late spring.
Right now the water is shallow and I dont think a sinking line would be real good. I never used one. How do you keep it out of the boulders in the middle of the river? I`m pretty sure I`ll be useing the skaget a lot when the water goes up late spring.I recently got the echo 5wt switch. Rio Skagit short head 325gr, Nautilus FWX 7/8. Let me say its schaweeeetttttt. I guide in AK and it will be the ultimate trout rod. It handles t-8 and t-11 without a problem. T-11 over 10ft gets a little tougher to turn over. So if your wanting to throw anything over T-11 i would reccomend a rod with some more stank. My buddy has a Z-axis 6wt switch that handles t-14 without a problem, got alot of stank in that rod. Switch/spey for trout is my new love