Need some fine tuning help guys.

[swirlchaser]

Hey guys, it's time to pick your brains again. After 2 trips with my 11" 9wt switch and a few fish under my belt I need some fine tuning. I'm basically using a two handed, over head cast. Should my upper hand be above the reel or towards the top of the grip. At the top of the grip feels a little unatural at the moment but I'm thinking that's where I should be.

 

[jaybo41]

I am by no means an expert in casting, I am only starting to dip into switch rods With that said, check out youtube. From the looks of most videos I've watched, and recalling my instruction, it seems like you want to be at the top of the grip. By all accounts that I've read, these are some of the masters when it comes to two handed casting.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNoMcWGoY8g]Advanced Speycasting with Eoin Fairgrieve - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5V1vxR2cr0]Master the Scandinavian Speycast with Henrik Mortensen - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKweQaWEQg8]How to Cast a Floating Tip on a Skagit Line---From Skagit Master Volume 1 Featuring Ed Ward - YouTube[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua3JT3gmsjI]Simon Gawesworth at SOR, Spey casting. - YouTube[/ame]

 

[swirlchaser]

I am by no means an expert in casting, I am only starting to dip into switch rods With that said, check out youtube. From the looks of most videos I've watched, and recalling my instruction, it seems like you want to be at the top of the grip. By all accounts that I've read, these are some of the masters when it comes to two handed casting.

Thanks, I've pretty much memorized those 4 videos but no one is casting with a short, 11' rod. I was wondering if the positioning matters on a shorter rod. I won't bother to adjust if it's not going to make a serious impact on my cast.

 

[Ard]

I am quite unconventional in the cast, with that said I would lean toward whatever feels and works best for you. Many of the videos I have seen only resemble the conditions I face in that there is water involved. In an over head 2 hand cast the stage is wide open for you to find your sweet spot. I honestly couldn't tell you at this time where I have my hands on the grip when executing this cast.

 

[jaybo41]

That's a good point that you bring up and a good question, sorry I missed that piece lol. I'll give my humble and inexperienced opinion and no doubt the experts here will chime in to validate.

The upper hand position has less to do with the length of the rod than does the type of casting you're doing...in this case 2 handed casting. I suspect whether you're doing traditional spey or skagit you want to keep it there. I would imagine that for one handed casting, it may be more of a personal preference.

Having logged many hours of fishing one hand rods exclusively, it would seem more natural to be closer to the reel. I know for me that was the case.

So what say the experts?

 

[swirlchaser]

...Having logged many hours of fishing one hand rods exclusively, it would seem more natural to be closer to the reel. I know for me that was the case.

So what say the experts?

this is exactly my problem. It's instinctive for my to put my left hand(I'm a lefty) right above the reel in the lower well. I fished for 1.5 hours this morning before I even realized my hand wasn't where it was supposed to be. Made an effort to keep it up high for the last half hour but it sure felt weird.

 

[jaybo41]

After a little more thinking about this maybe what's happening by keeping your upper hand closer to the reel is loss of power. Meaning, you're shortening up the distance to your lower hand or fulcrum. Not sure if my terminology or logic is accurate. I keep thinking back to Henrik's video and how he stresses that by putting the body into your casting will help deliver more line. Where you are fishing and how you're rigged is probably going to dictate how much line you actually need to push out though. Would love to hear what more experienced casters have to say, I should probably just taper off posting to this thread until that happens. :icon_lol: Good learning experience for all of us new two handers!

 

[swirlchaser]

After a little more thinking about this maybe what's happening by keeping your upper hand closer to the reel is loss of power. Meaning, you're shortening up the distance to your lower hand or fulcrum. Not sure if my terminology or logic is accurate. I keep thinking back to Henrik's video and how he stresses that by putting the body into your casting will help deliver more line. Where you are fishing and how you're rigged is probably going to dictate how much line you actually need to push out though. Would love to hear what more experienced casters have to say, I should probably just taper off posting to this thread until that happens. :icon_lol: Good learning experience for all of us new two handers!

The physics sound right, I'll have to make it a point to keep my hand high and see if my distance increases.

 

[Guest1]

Should my upper hand be above the reel or towards the top of the grip. At the top of the grip feels a little unatural at the moment but I'm thinking that's where I should be.

With the overhead cast, I still put my upper hand at the top of the grip. I don't think it makes a terrible amount of difference. If you are spey casting however, it makes a difference depending on the style you choose to do. If you look at the first 2 videos jayboy posted, they are different styles. Eoin Fairgrieve does it the style I do. Henrik Mortensen does it Scandi style. I tried that style and didn't like it. First of all it helps to have a fast rod for scandi style. Just my opinion but I don't think you can cast as far scandi style.

 

[fredaevans]

Good starting point: drop your arms and put your elbows (loosely) at your side(s), lower arm(s) out/palm up. Have someone lay the rod in your hands. Obviously one's going to be on the lower grip and it goes where it goes. Ahhhhhh, but the upper hand is another ball game.

Give an inch (+/-)and that's your place.:fishing: Point being ... well, the point of your elbows. Regardless of caster/type of cast the elbows will be 'wider' than your body or at the minimum, pointed out to get them out of the way. I'm sure there are good casters who've got something else down 'pat,' but 98% of the time that's what you need.

 

[swirlchaser]

Ok, so the general consensus is that my top hand above the reel is a habit from my single hand casting and not the ideal place for it to be on the switch rod. Back to the water. If I make it out in the morning I'm sure I'll have some more questions in the afternoon.

 

[MoscaPescador]

This thread made me stand on my deck just to wave my switch rod. I found my most comfortable upper hand position somewhere in the middle of the grip. I will probably end up going to the river to see how hand position effects my casting. To be honest, I never gave it much thought.

Dennis

 

[swirlchaser]

This thread made me stand on my deck just to wave my switch rod. I found my most comfortable upper hand position somewhere in the middle of the grip. I will probably end up going to the river to see how hand position effects my casting. To be honest, I never gave it much thought.

Dennis

Good, we can compare notes! I see Dan's point because with two hands apart your creating more leverage and Fred makes sense because if your arms are parallel with your body you create the most force with the least amount of energy. So I guess the width of your shoulders determines how high up your had rests. In the name of research I have to hit the beach tomorrow morning.

 

[wt bash]

I'm with Mosca on the middle grip area, maybe to a bit above dead center for an overhead two handed cast, think of it like a mini hocky stick. Thats what worked best for me, if my hands were closer together, top hand close to the reel, I had to really work to feel the load and tended to rush the cast. Once I spread the grip out I was able to slow down and load the rod down into the cork. Thats one thing I noticed with the TFOs they like to get bent and then its like watching a cannon fire in slow motion!

 

[swirlchaser]

... Thats one thing I noticed with the TFOs they like to get bent and then its like watching a cannon fire in slow motion!

I realized this yesterday on the beach. This rod really likes to be pushed on the forward cast.

 

[jaybo41]

Ok so maybe not the best of testing conditions, but I just got back from casting in a park and didn't notice much of a difference whether I kept my hand closer to the reel or further up at the top of the grip. I will say that when I had my hand placed further up, I seemed to be able to get just a little more line out. I guess the good news for me is that I was able to get plenty of line out and especially for where I'll be fishing this.

I was casting a 6110-4 Z loaded with 350 grain Hook & Hackle switch line which is on an old reel that I intend on using for practice. I'll be curious to see how the 6/7 Rio Switch performs on it hopefully next weekend.

To further confuse me, I watched both Henrik's Scandi casting video and Simon's Skagit casting video before I went out, thus confusing me on styles. Good news is that I was able to perform the Snap T and Perry Poke pretty consistently. I guess I can live with that. Snake roll proved difficult on the grass.

 

[swirlchaser]

Ok guys, time for round two. I took Dan and Freds advise and put my top hand towards the top of the grip. Then I took WT's advise from an earlier post and went up to a 630gr head. This is all starting to click now. I was consistently shooting my entire running line on the lawn. I'm sure the water load will shorten that a bit.
Now for the next question. The new head I picked up is an Airflo Skagit compact. At only 25ish feet it's much shorter than what I'm used too and the rod seemed to load before I was ready for my forward motion. I have a few options here:
A. Slow down my back cast
B. Let out some running line. (Thanks Ard)
C. Work on my timing.
What do you guys do when using shorter heads?

 

[wt bash]

Whats the weight of your Skagit head? When I fist picked up my switch rod (7wt TFO) I got a 480 skagit head for it. For waterbourne its finest kind but when I tried to overhead it...aweful!! It could work if it were a lighter than normal skagit but thats something I never tried.

 

[swirlchaser]

Whats the weight of your Skagit head? When I fist picked up my switch rod (7wt TFO) I got a 480 skagit head for it. For waterbourne its finest kind but when I tried to overhead it...aweful!! It could work if it were a lighter than normal skagit but thats something I never tried.

The TFO 9WT is rated at 500-700. The head I just picked up is a 630. It loads great but it's so short that it's behind me before I know it.

 

[wt bash]

Yeah I'd save that for when you head to the Salmon or other rivers where you can use the sustained anchor casts. I know what you mean the few times I tried to airialize my skag I got a lousy open loop or the whole thing would drop before I could make my forward cast. On the river your line rigged to one of the MOW tips from RIO like the 5/5 in the lighter stuff will still jack a pretty big fly and get you down deep enough.