First spey...Need help

[chased]

I posted this over on the Spey forum and have got in touch with a few spey gurus but thought I might as well post here here to get even more imput. I'm a total spey "newb" so all imput is welcome!

I have been thinking about getting a two handed rod for a while now and want to dive into the spey game, the problem is that I am a complete novice when it comes to the spey world. I come to the forum hoping that I can be steered in the right direction for my first long rod. I'm thinking that a spey or switch rod would be a lot more practical for fishing the tail water of the North Platte river in Ogallala Nebraska that is not to far down the road from me. Near the gates, it is somewhat wadeable depending on the time of the year and outflow. Down river there is steep drops offs, deep water, high banks, and obstructions in your back cast. I normally use a 9ft 5wt single hander, which gets the job done to a point. Bombing bigger streamers and indicator rigs in to wind all day starts to get tiresome. I feel that a switch or spey rod would give me much more performance and distance with less physical effort. An average fish will run 15-18", but there is a good possibility for a nice size rainbow running 23"+. The state record rainbow came out of here several years ago weighing 14.5 lbs, so there is rare chance that true brute could be hooked. I don't know what size rod I need. I was thinking the 3-5 wt trout speys on the market would fit the situation, but I don't want to be under/over gunned in terms of fly and fish size. How big of flies/fish could these rods handle? What rod(s) would you recommend for this situation? There is no shortage of wind in Nebraska, and more often than not, it is howling. I have never cast a spey or switch rod, or have even seen anyone use one in person. I think that using one would be a game changer on this particular piece of water. During winter flows are normally 10-200cfs. During summer the average flow is around 2500cfs+ on a good year, depending on the year it could be a lot less, like this summer where is was around 1000- 1500cfs.

Here are some pictures of the place I plan on using the rod. Across the waterfalls is around 250ft give or take, just to give you an idea of the size of the place.

Over the dam looking at about half of the first pool.


Standing on top of the first set of falls looking at the spillway.


Back about 1/2 mile from the dam looking at the dam.


Standing on first set of falls looking down river.


Looking down river.


Looking across a set of falls.


Down stream a few miles on private property looking towards the dam.



If you have any more questions or need more information please feel free to ask.

Thanks for your help!
Chase

 

[Ard]

Hi Chase,

Welcome home, looking at your pictures you are a candidate for a 13 - 15 foot rod in the 8/9 weight range I believe. Why so heavy? Big heavy lines will cary the load better than a 6/7 or lighter. I also believe that you may benefit in learning to cast with a medium length head / belly line like a 55 - 65 foot for the learning. These lines are not the fast track to Spey casting but short casts are easy and as you learn to reach out, the long belly will be much appreciated when mending line for better control of sink rate etc.

Before I open my mouth again just to change feet I will wait for some others to join in. You will most likely end up on the phone with one of us trying to help you sort things out.

Ard

 

[Guest1]

I agree with Ard here. I'd forget that 3-5 wt. thing. I have a 15' 8/9 wt. Meiser I could put at a 45 degree down river cast and hit the far bank with and not get my feet wet. Looking at the photos you have there I'd say maybe a 13' 7 or 8 wt. would be as light and small as I'd bring there if I was going to do it. I think there is a tendancy now days to want to under gun things. I keep looking at posts where they are using rods so small they seem like to much effort for no real advantage. You can make shorter casts than a rod is capable of, but going farther than a rod can do .....

One more thing. Size of fish is not the important factor in choosing a two hander. These are the delivery system for a fly. You need to determine where you, at the maximum, want to put a fly and then get the rod that at a minimum will do that.

I have a head of 56 feet on my 15' 8/9 Meiser. I use a 15' leader. Add the 15' rod + 15' leader + 56 head = 86 feet just rolling the head out. I have ripped farts that take more effort than putting a fly that far away.

 

[chased]

I have ripped farts that take more effort than putting a fly that far away.

Just had to have a laugh at that LOL!

I see where you guys are comming from where wanting a big rod to deliver big flies a long ways with very little effort. I just feel as if I will be way over gunned with a rod of that stature. Heck, I think a rod that big could send a little 10" stocker trout sailing through the wind. I could see using a rod of that size for Pike, Walleye, and Wiper in the lake but not for trout....but what do I know? I normally use a single handed 5wt and seem to do alright. Wouldn't I be way overgunned for trout running from 15-25 inches? Maybe my thought process is flawed :shocking:

 

[Ard]

You will find that the essence of fishing the long rods is the wet fly. Because of this you will be allowing the current to do most of the fly presentation work and the fish will simply follow and grab the fly. With a 60 foot cast + leader on the water you won't have to worry about launching any fish when you 'strike'. Matter of fact I don't think I do what you could call 'strike' when a fish grabs onto the fly. If it is a heavy one I tug the line a couple times to ensure connection, but no launching of fish.

I think that people have this business of using ultra light rods to somehow make "the fight feel better" all turned around. I catch fish ranging in size from 12" to 40 pounds on my rods and the little guys are just as cool as the big ones. The difference when you have a heavy enough rod is that you can land a 12" fish with little in the way of theater, and bring in a monster while keeping control of the situation. Once you get to the end of the leader and the fly attached to it, the fish has no idea of what length or line weight your rod is. Remember when you use the rod you're expecting a big fish........

 

[Guest1]

I could see using a rod of that size for Pike, Walleye, and Wiper in the lake but not for trout....but what do I know? I normally use a single handed 5wt and seem to do alright. Wouldn't I be way overgunned for trout running from 15-25 inches? Maybe my thought process is flawed :shocking:

A Trout fights way better than a Walleye does. You are not overgunned with these. look back to where I said this:

One more thing. Size of fish is not the important factor in choosing a two hander. These are the delivery system for a fly.

 

[fredaevans]

Ok, Ok .... I'll the contraian here. Looking at your photo's of the water and the fish you describe a 5wt is all you need. Rod length of 11' (switch) to 12' 6" (a full on 2hander). A 5wt may sound 'light' but that's the typical rod I use for summer run steelhead fishing here on the Rogue River when flows are at 1500 cfs and below. Above 1,500 I'll use a 6wt as I'll be tossing sinking poly leaders (and heavier flies) and you need a bit more 'line grain weight.'

Bye the bye, you can handle a heck of a large fish even with a 5wt, smaller fish also give you a fun tussle with the lighter stick. For 'pure' trout fishing (Montana) I actually use a 12' 6" 3wt-5wt Meiser. Grain range on this rod is 250 for a 3 up to 400 as a 5. Fun to have folks collect on the beach behind you and watch you cast.

Fred

Edit: Forgot about your question about fly size. With a 5wt you'll be chucking a max #6 (unweighted) hook down to a size (weighted) 10 and smaller. And looking at the pictures a sinking Furled leader from Joni would be a total hoot to fish.

 

[delopez]

I'll throw another input in here... I'm totally agreeing with the guys above about the long belly line and I'm anxious to get one myself. However, what works for me with my steep banks, not even ten feet behind me, and 20-30 foot drop-offs, 5 feet in the water in front of me is a skagit setup. I run and 8/9 deer creek rod and a 600grain skagit flight with a t-14 sink tip and around a 5-6ft leader. My fishing is definitely a bit different than yours and I'm still working at it, but I can cast almost straight across the river with this line with just the tip of my right foot in this water. And as I get better and more comfortable with it, I seem to be able to cast farther and farther.

Now, I think that you will like the long-belly approach better, but I'm just letting you know what "works" for me when I don't have room for much of a D-loop behind me. The long-belly lines seem a bit more graceful to cast. But, there's my two cents.

 

[fyshstykr]

I'm with Fred on this and think a slightly shorter and lighter rod will be fine, perhaps something in the 12' to 13' range in a 6wt.
As far as lines, I'd consider an Airflow Scandi Compact or even the Airflow RAGE line to ease into learning to cast these two handed rod.

 

[Ard]

OK,

So maybe I reccomend the huge rods because that's all I have :icon_redf

 

[fyshstykr]

Maybe I'm just jealous?

Hey Chased, I'm curious as to what rod you had the Triangle Taper line on?

 

[chased]

Poppy from the Red Shed got me set up with a matched rod and line to test. What a guy!

Fysh, I don't recall ever using a TT, maybe you got me confused with somebody else? Who knows lol....

Thanks for the recommendations guys, hopefully I will be able to test the rod next weekend and see what all of the rage is about


-Chase

 

[fyshstykr]

Your right I do have you confused with someone else, the member selling the TT lines here in the classifieds. Sorry 'bout that.

Poppy's a good egg and will do his best to make you happy with your purchase. What did you get?

 

[chased]

He is sending somthing along the lines of a 12'6" 6wt spey for me to demo. Can't wait to give it a try!

 

[fyshstykr]

Cool, anxious to see and hear how it goes for ya. Keep us posted.

 

[randyflycaster]

If you're looking to retrieve some line after each cast I'd go with a Scandi or a Rage line and a 12' to 13' rod. For casting bigger flies and for dealing with windy conditions, I'd choose a Rage, which will also handle sinking flies and polyleaders better. (For both lines you'll need polyleaders.)

For delicate presentations - casting dry flies - I prefer a Scandi.

With long belly lines - though I've never cast one - you'll have trouble making shorter casts, but you won't have to retrieve after each cast. Also, many feel that longer belly lines are harder for beginners to cast.

BTW, Scandi lines are prone to blown anchors, so make sure you don't execute your lift too high or fast, and lift with your arms not with breaking your wrists.

Because the river looks pretty wide, I'd stay away from shorter switch and spey rods.

Finally, I would tend to err on the side of a heavier rod as it will help you cast heavier flies and fight fish without hurting them.

Randy

 

[delopez]

Your right I do have you confused with someone else, the member selling the TT lines here in the classifieds. Sorry 'bout that.

I'm selling the TT in the classifieds. I had them on a 7wt switch rod. The heads are 20ish feet long and have a grain weight of 400. However, I wanted something a little better for skagit and went with the 475grain rio skagit flight. the TT did it's job well, though. It's a shame that they didn't make the line in 25 grain increments and a little longer.

 

[fredaevans]

OK,

So maybe I recommend the huge rods because that's all I have :icon_redf

Nothing wrong with 'big rods' Ard, but with a New Comer I'd never hand them anything over a 14' rod rated at an 8wt until they've got the basic's down pretty tight. Heavier equipment is just too tiring when you're learning how to cast.

Just my personal observation.

 

[bugslinger]

chased, first off I hope you go through with your purchase and get on that great looking water you have. I agree with Dan bigger is better in the spey world and after this bug bites you forget your single hand rods unless your fihing a brook or run you probably wont use them much any more. It amazes me the knowledge this group of guys have and are willing to share it. Good luck and fish hard.

 

[billyspey]

I fish a trout Spey in tailwaters in Tennessee a acr 3 wt. and enjoy it very much for both smallmouth bass and trout. It will cast what I need for streamers and nymphs. Just remember a 3 wt Spey is kin to a 6wt. Single hand rod.and a 5 wt Spey is kin to a 8 wt singlehanded so may help you understand the difference between Spey rods and singlehanded. My 2 cents.