Getting started with a switch rod, and I'm clueless.

[creekcrawler97]

I just got a new fly rod (Echo SR 6 wt) with a Switch Chucker 8 line, and I am completely in love. That being the case, in the grand tradition of screwing up relationships, I can't seem to get the cast to come out right. it doesn't shoot out and unfurl like I've seen. Here's what I know about the rod system: its a slightly shorter (10'10") snappier rod, pretty responsive, and given to "Scandinavian" style casting, which means very little to me. Any preliminary thoughts about how i could correct my cast? What are the basics? And please, if you have or know of any resources that would help me figure this new world, please share them! Better yet, if you're in CO give me a shout and maybe we can fish sometime. Thanks a million folks!

 

[Ard]

Hi,

I'm a long ways from CO. but can tell you that one way to see some demo's is to google snap T cast and single Spey cast. Those 2 should be easy with the setup you have. As far as my own advice; even after viewing someone preforming the casts, don't try for great distances. Keep things short and develop your sweep & stroke lengths. Just like single hand casting get the basics down making 30 - 40 foot casts. Once you have it working then you worry about shooting line & nice loops

 

[cab]

From a fellow newb: watch the vids on youtube, and SLOW DOWN!!! Smooth is the rule, these babes need to be danced with. When I get it right, it feels like I'm practicing Tai Chi. Alas, my instructor flaked off, that stuff was fun.

HTH,
CAB

 

[wolfglen]

From a fellow newb: watch the vids on youtube, and SLOW DOWN!!! Smooth is the rule, these babes need to be danced with. When I get it right, it feels like I'm practicing Tai Chi. Alas, my instructor flaked off, that stuff was fun.

HTH,
CAB

Exactly, fly casting IS like Tai Chi. I've been trying to find a Tai Chi teacher do to a video about the relationship between the two.

 

[roguebum]

I just got a new fly rod (Echo SR 6 wt) with a Switch Chucker 8 line, and I am completely in love. That being the case, in the grand tradition of screwing up relationships, I can't seem to get the cast to come out right. it doesn't shoot out and unfurl like I've seen. Here's what I know about the rod system: its a slightly shorter (10'10") snappier rod, pretty responsive, and given to "Scandinavian" style casting, which means very little to me. Any preliminary thoughts about how i could correct my cast? What are the basics? And please, if you have or know of any resources that would help me figure this new world, please share them! Better yet, if you're in CO give me a shout and maybe we can fish sometime. Thanks a million folks!

I would think that the first things we need to know are:
"What kind of casts are you having trouble with (I'm assuming they are Spey style casts)?"
"What style of casting (Scandinavian or traditional) are you attempting?"
"Why did you decide to use a Switch Chucker line?"
"How much head do you have out when you're casting?"
"How large of a D-Loop are you throwing?"

Scandinavian style casting (also known as underhand style or short stroke-straight line) is approached very differently than the traditional style of Spey casting. It uses a shooting head system with a thick, short body section (5-8ft) and a long front taper (14-24ft.). This is known as a Scandi head and can range anywhere from 26-40+ feet.

Traditional style Spey casting uses what are called short, medium or long belly Spey lines that range anywhere from 45-75+ feet. There is generally no "shooting" of line, as you will be casting all the line that you have out. It requires much longer rods than Scandi style and a larger D-Loop to form behind you in order to properly load the rod.

The Switch Chucker is built completely different than both of these. It is more of a hybrid line that tries to cross over between an overhead line, a nymphing line & a Spey line. Not great at any... but not bad at any either. In order to Spey cast well with this line, you must have your technique down pretty well. Not the thing I would recommend one of my customers to start off with. I'm not saying that it is a bad line, I'm just saying that is takes a lot more practice to master than a Scandi style setup.

Check out this short article on the Scandi as compared with a Skagit style head. Disregard the Skagit system if it doesn't interest you.
Skagit or Scandi : Pt. 2 - Head Characteristics

IMHO, the major components of a Spey cast can be broken down into 4 parts:

The Setup
The Anchor
The D-Loop
The Forward Cast

All cast have differences within them, but if you can think of your cast in these four terms, you may have a starting point for clearly understanding, self diagnosing and/or communicating frustrations.

Just my 2 cents. Separate the wheat from the chaff.

Joel

 

[runningfish]

ECHO SR 6 weight 10'10" grain window is 330-390. http://www.echoflyfishing.com/pdf/speylinechart.pdf. Switch chucker #8 is 590 grain Switch Chucker - Spey Fly Lines | Rio.

#8 is too heavy for that rod. Get #5 (370) and with Polyleaders you can hit that 390 ceiling, but no T-tips. To compare my 6/7 11ft Meiser top off at 415 included 9ft of T-12 (108 grain)

The Buelah V2 Elixir switch 325 or 350 will be a good scandi head for your scandinavian bottom hand cast. They are the perfect length for 10'~11' rod.

 

[mjkirshner]

I'm a switch rod newbie, too, so I figured I'd bump this post up. I have been very frustrated trying to gauge my casting, as it is very hard to find any specific references to distance with these rods/lines. People talk about "monster cast" or casting "long distances" but never cite specific figures, so I have no way of knowing if my casts are reaching the expected distance or way short.

I've got a Redington CPX (11'-3") 8-weight switch rod, and until recently I had been casting Orvis #8 (420 grain) Hydros 3D switch line. It seems to be intended for a Scandinavian type of cast, and I was getting pretty frustrated as I could only shoot about 15' to 20' of running line; with the 34' head and an 11' leader, I was getting 60' to 65' total. I've since discovered that I should have been using a 10' polyleader instead of the straight mono leader, and by adding a floating or intermediate polyleader, I am now shooting a little more line, so that with about 25' to 30' of running line, plus the 34' head, a 10' polyleader, and a 2' tippet, I'm reaching about 70' to 75'. My question: Is that what I should expect, or should I be getting more distance?

Fast forward a few months, and I've now gotten a 400-grain OPST Commando head, Rio Slickshooter mono running line, and 10' MOW and iMOW tips. That setup is designed for a Skagit cast, and for that, I have also learned what other posters said: that I need to SLOW IT DOWN. Too fast and the anchor is blown (and I get hit in head with the fly), but slow it down to a pace that almost seems too slow, and the cast is nice and smooth. Now, I am probably reaching about 60' with that (16.5' head, 10' MOW tip and 6' leader, plus about 25' to 30' of running line). I am okay with less distance than I get with the switch line, since I can cast a heavier fly, but I have the same question: Is this about what I can expect or is there more juice that I may find when my casting technique improves?

 

[Bigfly]

There are too many rods, lines and casting styles to sort you out on a forum.
The Echo is a bit soft for huge loads, but I would up line one wt. to start with
on a scandi line. Then two....
Cast the same weight as the rod for a head line.....to start.
I cast an 8wt skagit on my Z-axis 6wt, but it has a little more snap than the Echo...and I have a cast....
The main thing besides slowing it down....is aim higher than normal.
Dry fly guys tend to aim low at first.
Once again, distance is what everyone fixates on when they get a big stick.
and yes, as your cast improves, so will the distance.
But fish are around at 60ft.....

Jim

 

[mjkirshner]

Once again, distance is what everyone fixates on when they get a big stick.

I'm not fixated on distance. But distance is all I have to judge the correctness of the casting form. I watch videos on Youtube, but cannot tell the distance that a proper cast is reaching, and no one seems to discuss it.

...and yes, as your cast improves, so will the distance.
But fish are around at 60ft...

What does that mean? The distance will improve.... to what? Yes, the fish are around at 60 feet. Lefty Kreh says that most fish are caught within 50 feet, but does that mean that I should not develop the ability to cast farther than 50 feet? I can always go shorter, but I still want the ability to cast as long as one can reasonably cast with the equipment. My question is simple: How far is that? I don't want to struggle to cast an 8-wt switch rod 80 feet if 80 feet is an unreasonable goal. So what is a reasonable benchmark for an 11'-3" 8-wt switch rod in the hands of an average caster?

 

[ia_trouter]

I'm a switch rod newbie, too, so I figured I'd bump this post up. I have been very frustrated trying to gauge my casting, as it is very hard to find any specific references to distance with these rods/lines. People talk about "monster cast" or casting "long distances" but never cite specific figures, so I have no way of knowing if my casts are reaching the expected distance or way short.

I've got a Redington CPX (11'-3") 8-weight switch rod, and until recently I had been casting Orvis #8 (420 grain) Hydros 3D switch line. It seems to be intended for a Scandinavian type of cast, and I was getting pretty frustrated as I could only shoot about 15' to 20' of running line; with the 34' head and an 11' leader, I was getting 60' to 65' total. I've since discovered that I should have been using a 10' polyleader instead of the straight mono leader, and by adding a floating or intermediate polyleader, I am now shooting a little more line, so that with about 25' to 30' of running line, plus the 34' head, a 10' polyleader, and a 2' tippet, I'm reaching about 70' to 75'. My question: Is that what I should expect, or should I be getting more distance?

Fast forward a few months, and I've now gotten a 400-grain OPST Commando head, Rio Slickshooter mono running line, and 10' MOW and iMOW tips. That setup is designed for a Skagit cast, and for that, I have also learned what other posters said: that I need to SLOW IT DOWN. Too fast and the anchor is blown (and I get hit in head with the fly), but slow it down to a pace that almost seems too slow, and the cast is nice and smooth. Now, I am probably reaching about 60' with that (16.5' head, 10' MOW tip and 6' leader, plus about 25' to 30' of running line). I am okay with less distance than I get with the switch line, since I can cast a heavier fly, but I have the same question: Is this about what I can expect or is there more juice that I may find when my casting technique improves?

I have read a lot about the OPST lines and watched many videos. It is a radical departure from traditional skagit lines. It's inarguable the designer is a skagit Jedi with a great reputation. I have seen him use the line to cast large flies on short singlehand rods from 3-5WT. It's just unheard of. Is singlehand spey the true sweet spot for the line? I think that is a possibility. It is marketed for long rods too but I haven't seen a lot of evidence it is optimal for anything but throwing a large fly and leader a modest distance. There is nothing amazing about my casting but my spey will rollcast about as far as the distances you are talking about with a traditional skagit head. Could the same line be optimal for a 7ft singlehand rod with some overhead casting in the mix, and a 13ft rod purely two hand casting? Perhaps it could but that would be some amazing versatility. For me the jury is still out. It is perhaps the hottest selling skagit line currently so I think we will know soon.

You are casting far enough to fish effectively now so the rest is not so critical.

 

[Bigfly]

Wasn't ragging on ya.....
I went through a distance thing when I picked up a big stick.
Think it's natural...

A longer cast is going to happen in time.
But "reaching" for it right off may cause you to overdo it. Poor form.
Concentrate on good form and timing, not power.
Keep those elbows down, fingers light on the corks, and just focus on the bottom hand.
When I went for distance, I started raising my arms and pushing with my top hand. Not good.
Very not good........
Then I had to unlearn.....which is worse.
Not sure this is what you are asking....but, on my 6wt switch, I can roll cast 60ft+, with barely any effort. Single-hand.
Over that distance I Spey cast....and can crank out the whole line... 120ft.
But I never fish that far away.....too much slack to do more than hope that the fish will do all the work.
No way to control the drift either.............
Basically, I found that I could cast a mile but had no game at that range.
I rarely pick up a short stick any more.......
Hope it goes smoothly for ya!

Jim

 

[huronfly]

I wouldn't worry about putting a number (eg feet)on the distance you are casting or intend to cast. Focus on the fundamentals and puts lots and lots of time on the water you will notice your distance increasing. I also try to bomb some big casts once in a while but I almost always break out of proper technique when I do this so I try to avoid it, then I reel in enough line until I am casting smoothly again. Even for a mediocre(at best) caster such as myself, a 70-75' cast on the switch rod is plenty. If I need to throw more line I go to the spey.

 

[coug]

Okay, first a question, why go with a switch rod? Seems people think they can use it as a single hand rod if they do not figure out two-hand casts, when it is lousy at the first and can teach bad habits for the second. Rant over.

Get a lesson. At the very least find out if there are a group of people in your area who get together and cast two-hand rods. Join them. Otherwise you will be trying to overcome muscle memory from bad habits you learn just watching videos. Too much top hand, not getting your arms out in front of you, losing tension on the line when you are trying to load the rod; these are all habits you might pick up if you keep going it alone. Best way to avoid bad habits is to get a few lessons to start you off. Second rant over. Fred needs to chime in on this. Of course, the advice I got when I was starting was to first learn on a 55' head, then go to scandi and skagit once you have that figured out. Did I say cast with someone and get a lesson if you can?

 

[huronfly]

Okay, first a question, why go with a switch rod? Seems people think they can use it as a single hand rod if they do not figure out two-hand casts, when it is lousy at the first and can teach bad habits for the second. Rant over.

I think a lot of people are mislead to thinking that their first DH rod should be a switch... because it's in between a SH and spey. If anybody ever asks switch vs spey for swinging, I say spey all day unless your rod is physically too big for the water being fished.

I wouldn't say switches are lousy overhead rods, singlehand maybe, but even then it depends on the balance and grip of the rod. A single backcast with a haul on the forward cast and the line will fly... there's no denying that. But more practical than that, DH overhead casting with switches works really well and will cast further than a SH'er all day...

I agree with the second point you make IF someone wants to transfer over to a bigger spey rod. If they only fish smaller rivers or never intend to use a bigger rod, then learning and getting used to spey casting on the switch really won't hurt anything. BUT if someone does intend to use a bigger stick eventually then yes bad habits have likely formed and frustration would set in.

I sense some skepticism with you about switch rods, I can assure you they aren't a gimmick, they are practical under the right conditions.

 

[coug]

I think a lot of people are mislead to thinking that their first DH rod should be a switch... because it's in between a SH and spey. If anybody ever asks switch vs spey for swinging, I say spey all day unless your rod is physically too big for the water being fished.

I wouldn't say switches are lousy overhead rods, singlehand maybe, but even then it depends on the balance and grip of the rod. A single backcast with a haul on the forward cast and the line will fly... there's no denying that. But more practical than that, DH overhead casting with switches works really well and will cast further than a SH'er all day...

I agree with the second point you make IF someone wants to transfer over to a bigger spey rod. If they only fish smaller rivers or never intend to use a bigger rod, then learning and getting used to spey casting on the switch really won't hurt anything. BUT if someone does intend to use a bigger stick eventually then yes bad habits have likely formed and frustration would set in.

I sense some skepticism with you about switch rods, I can assure you they aren't a gimmick, they are practical under the right conditions.

I agree on people thinking they are a transition. I stand corrected on the overhand casting. I meant single-hand overhead. I believe Meiser first coined the term switch rod and he meant two-hand d-loop as well as two-hand overhead casts. The term seems to have evolved now into shorter two-hand rods. Not skeptical at all about switch rods, one of my two-hand rods is 11'4" and I love it. My rant, and it was an aimless rant, was that people seem to think switch rods are a shortcut somehow to learning two-hand casting, when my experience is that it is easier to learn solid technique on longer rods. Hence my suggestion to get lessons or learn with someone who knows what they are doing.

 

[ia_trouter]

My rant, and it was an aimless rant, was that people seem to think switch rods are a shortcut somehow to learning two-hand casting, when my experience is that it is easier to learn solid technique on longer rods.

I was never exposed to the myth they were for transitional training. Before I jumped in I was under the impression there were for both OH casting and spey. Some switch rods are short enough now I suppose they could be decent at OH. Reality is you have to pick a flyline that does one or the other well. Otherwise it seems you run a high risk of of ending up with is a rod mediocre at everything. I bought a spey rod first. I do like my switch a lot on the right water.

 

[Unknownflyman]

Edited for for redundant content.

 

[Fkrow]

Agree with the comments your rod is not set up correctly, the Switch Chucker is a great line for heavier flies and medium distances. The line for your rod as recommended by RIO is #5 or #6 not the #8.

I use my Switch Chucker lines with a 10ft Polyleader in floating or Intermediate for larger flies in shallow water and then switch up to shorter sections of T-8, T-11 for deeper runs or pools. No problem casting 4ft-8ft of T tip sections on that line design. It is an advantage for smaller waters with not having to strip in the running line and head loop to loop connection rattling in the guides. My applications for the Switch Chucker lines is mainly streamers on rivers, and swinging or actively stripping the fly.

The idea of a fast rod is only used for Scandi is obsolete, it is more about how you cast,,, any rod can be used for Scandi or Skagit type lines.

The Echo SR series are nice casting rods however, I agree it is easier to learn spey casing on a longer rod. The timing is not as sensitive with a 12'6" rod compared to 11ft.

Search YouTube for Skagit Casting and you will see many different techniques, they all work.

Regards,
FK

 

[mjkirshner]

Seems like some responses are answering the original post from more than a year and a half ago rather than the newer question. I bumped it up because I had a related question, but I assume that the OP solved his problem more than a year ago. I've moved on too, reposted the question in a separate thread and got the answers I was looking for, so no need to answer this one anymore.

Sent from my SPH-L710T using Tapatalk

 

[Unknownflyman]

Sorry we could nt help. Good luck.