I received a PM from a fellow who had ask a question regarding benefits of longer lines vs. Skagit heads and I wrote a rather long reply. After reading it I thought it worth repeating in a thread. This may be old news to some of you but if not it may be quite helpful.
The message sent was to tell me he had decided not to invest in a longer rod and line. He is currently fishing an 11'6" I think and he ask me about this on Spey Pages not here.
This was what I sent back,
I agree that many times fish are found closer to shore than in the center of a river. However just because a fellow has a 37' or 45' belly line rather than a 22' Skagit he does not have to be throwing 70 foot casts. When you have the proper line for a given rod it will work very well at ranges of 30 - 40 foot. My preference for longer heads is rooted in the fact that they provide floating line that can be easily controlled at many different distances.
We all have learned to fish in different ways. I am the type who likes to think I can influence the outcome of some situations by steering my flies around by controlling my lines more. By this I mean slowing the fly with upstream mends - speeding it up and changing directions by following with a downstream loop mended in. The best way I can hope to explain how you can see what you are able to do with a fly once it's in the water is as follows.
Choose a bright fly that you can see really well in the water. Find a spot where you are alone and can pick a good moderate current to make some short swings in. Now just make simple roll or overhead casts to put that fly out there about 30 feet away and straight across from you in the current.
When it lands allow it to begin to sink and drift down current. Now, make a mend but maintain eye contact with your fly. Watch what it does in reaction to your mend. It will twitch into a tight buttonhook turn and rise toward the surface. If you are wanting to fish a fly at a depth so that you may be showing it to fish that are deeper in the water then this hook and rise thing caused by the mend is counterproductive to getting it down.
Next make another cast to the same spot and before that fly hits the water or at the very instant it hits; make that upstream mend in the line. A quick flip of the wrist is all it takes to get a nice sized loop upstream. Watch that fly. Nothing really happens if the mend was done right. The fly will begin to sink into a dead drift because the mend was made before the drift ever started. Now that you have slack in the line and the fly is sinking you can make additional 'small' mends to further your cause of sinking that fly. Again, as you stack additional mends into the cast watch that fly for movement. If all is done correctly it should be continuing its downstream course without reacting to your additional mends.
OK, once you have used up a couple minutes to confirm that what I say will happen really does it's time to learn more about what you can make the fly do while it's on a drift & swing.
Make another cast with an instant mend just as the fly is about to strike the surface. this time once the dead drift starts make a pretty good sized downstream loop (mend) in your floating line. Follow this mend with a gentle twitch of the rod tip in a downstream direction. Watch that fly; it should speed up and come across the stream towards your position. Now an upstream mend is made with another gentle twitch, this time upstream to match the mend. The fly will change direction again.
Essentially that sunken fly will respond to whatever the tip of the floating fly line does. The reaction of the fly to the line is not instant if there is some slack in the line but the reaction will come. The more you do this while watching how the fly reacts to your manipulations of the line the more you will come to understand that you can actual have a great deal of control over a drift & swing.
You can influence the depth, the speed and direction of the fly. Choosing a bright fly and good spot for this simple exercise can pay long term dividends for you in the fishing days and years ahead. The things you observe at close range while purposely trying to have more and better control over what your fly is doing will always occur when you do these things to the floating line. What you see at 30 feet will work the same way at 70 feet albeit with a bit more delay between your line manipulations and the flys responding to them. Because of this lag time you must be constantly reading the currents as they can be seen on the surface downstream of where you know the fly to be. By anticipating changes in currents and spotting what may be possible holding water you can help to send that fly right through the best slices of the channel. Of course as you lengthen the casts you must be conscious not to be swinging too long. By this I mean to not be crossing with the fly behind the fish. If this is happening your possible fish will be seeing leaders or sink tips and not the fly.
So, what I'm saying is that if you are not currently aware of what your fly is doing after it hits the water out there you may benefit by spending a few minutes of your time doing what I have described above. I haven't met many fellows who have ever done this and when I get them to slow down & take a few minutes to see what I am saying in this writing they are enlightened at the very least.
Not everyone is a control freak, I know this. It is however very rewarding when you get a really good strike immediately after you have repositioned your line in an effort to send the fly cross current right on a good looking current seam. For these type control fishing situations a longer floating line is precious. The line doesn't have to be a 70 foot long belly, on shorter rods I find the old Beulah Elixir lines perfect at 37'. I use the full lines that have integrated vinyl running line behind the head. This coated runner allows for some measure of control even with 10 or 20 feet of it out the tip. On longer rods one of Steve Godshall's Super Scandi lines is really sweat. They have a 45 foot head so when you add a 13' leader and rod reach you can be fishing 60 feet with full floating line.
Not trying to convert you, this is what I do. others have what is working for them however if you ever begin to question your results you may want to try the exercise I describe and go with slightly longer heads on your rods.
Ard
If nothing else you gotta hand it to me, I don't mess around when I answer a PM huh
---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 PM ----------
Since no one has posted on the thread I'll make a few more comments. You could read that original post as well as many other things I've written here on the forum and get the idea that I care only about fishing while using wet flies and streamers. You would be correct, this isn't to say that I never have enjoyed or became good at using dry flies or nymphs, I certainly did but I found the wet fly or streamer the most challenging way to fly fish. I would hope that many of the members here on the forum do this (fly fishing) as a way to make fishing more challenging and it is my hope that some will be lured into fishing sub surface flies in the ways I have described in many posts here.
If you spend a little time looking for Sticky threads in various forums and also page back through the blog I've made here on my profile page you can find more of these entries
If you have questions about the use of streamers feel free to ask them and I'll give my slant on things.
Ard
The message sent was to tell me he had decided not to invest in a longer rod and line. He is currently fishing an 11'6" I think and he ask me about this on Spey Pages not here.
This was what I sent back,
I agree that many times fish are found closer to shore than in the center of a river. However just because a fellow has a 37' or 45' belly line rather than a 22' Skagit he does not have to be throwing 70 foot casts. When you have the proper line for a given rod it will work very well at ranges of 30 - 40 foot. My preference for longer heads is rooted in the fact that they provide floating line that can be easily controlled at many different distances.
We all have learned to fish in different ways. I am the type who likes to think I can influence the outcome of some situations by steering my flies around by controlling my lines more. By this I mean slowing the fly with upstream mends - speeding it up and changing directions by following with a downstream loop mended in. The best way I can hope to explain how you can see what you are able to do with a fly once it's in the water is as follows.
Choose a bright fly that you can see really well in the water. Find a spot where you are alone and can pick a good moderate current to make some short swings in. Now just make simple roll or overhead casts to put that fly out there about 30 feet away and straight across from you in the current.
When it lands allow it to begin to sink and drift down current. Now, make a mend but maintain eye contact with your fly. Watch what it does in reaction to your mend. It will twitch into a tight buttonhook turn and rise toward the surface. If you are wanting to fish a fly at a depth so that you may be showing it to fish that are deeper in the water then this hook and rise thing caused by the mend is counterproductive to getting it down.
Next make another cast to the same spot and before that fly hits the water or at the very instant it hits; make that upstream mend in the line. A quick flip of the wrist is all it takes to get a nice sized loop upstream. Watch that fly. Nothing really happens if the mend was done right. The fly will begin to sink into a dead drift because the mend was made before the drift ever started. Now that you have slack in the line and the fly is sinking you can make additional 'small' mends to further your cause of sinking that fly. Again, as you stack additional mends into the cast watch that fly for movement. If all is done correctly it should be continuing its downstream course without reacting to your additional mends.
OK, once you have used up a couple minutes to confirm that what I say will happen really does it's time to learn more about what you can make the fly do while it's on a drift & swing.
Make another cast with an instant mend just as the fly is about to strike the surface. this time once the dead drift starts make a pretty good sized downstream loop (mend) in your floating line. Follow this mend with a gentle twitch of the rod tip in a downstream direction. Watch that fly; it should speed up and come across the stream towards your position. Now an upstream mend is made with another gentle twitch, this time upstream to match the mend. The fly will change direction again.
Essentially that sunken fly will respond to whatever the tip of the floating fly line does. The reaction of the fly to the line is not instant if there is some slack in the line but the reaction will come. The more you do this while watching how the fly reacts to your manipulations of the line the more you will come to understand that you can actual have a great deal of control over a drift & swing.
You can influence the depth, the speed and direction of the fly. Choosing a bright fly and good spot for this simple exercise can pay long term dividends for you in the fishing days and years ahead. The things you observe at close range while purposely trying to have more and better control over what your fly is doing will always occur when you do these things to the floating line. What you see at 30 feet will work the same way at 70 feet albeit with a bit more delay between your line manipulations and the flys responding to them. Because of this lag time you must be constantly reading the currents as they can be seen on the surface downstream of where you know the fly to be. By anticipating changes in currents and spotting what may be possible holding water you can help to send that fly right through the best slices of the channel. Of course as you lengthen the casts you must be conscious not to be swinging too long. By this I mean to not be crossing with the fly behind the fish. If this is happening your possible fish will be seeing leaders or sink tips and not the fly.
So, what I'm saying is that if you are not currently aware of what your fly is doing after it hits the water out there you may benefit by spending a few minutes of your time doing what I have described above. I haven't met many fellows who have ever done this and when I get them to slow down & take a few minutes to see what I am saying in this writing they are enlightened at the very least.
Not everyone is a control freak, I know this. It is however very rewarding when you get a really good strike immediately after you have repositioned your line in an effort to send the fly cross current right on a good looking current seam. For these type control fishing situations a longer floating line is precious. The line doesn't have to be a 70 foot long belly, on shorter rods I find the old Beulah Elixir lines perfect at 37'. I use the full lines that have integrated vinyl running line behind the head. This coated runner allows for some measure of control even with 10 or 20 feet of it out the tip. On longer rods one of Steve Godshall's Super Scandi lines is really sweat. They have a 45 foot head so when you add a 13' leader and rod reach you can be fishing 60 feet with full floating line.
Not trying to convert you, this is what I do. others have what is working for them however if you ever begin to question your results you may want to try the exercise I describe and go with slightly longer heads on your rods.
Ard
If nothing else you gotta hand it to me, I don't mess around when I answer a PM huh
---------- Post added at 08:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:44 PM ----------
Since no one has posted on the thread I'll make a few more comments. You could read that original post as well as many other things I've written here on the forum and get the idea that I care only about fishing while using wet flies and streamers. You would be correct, this isn't to say that I never have enjoyed or became good at using dry flies or nymphs, I certainly did but I found the wet fly or streamer the most challenging way to fly fish. I would hope that many of the members here on the forum do this (fly fishing) as a way to make fishing more challenging and it is my hope that some will be lured into fishing sub surface flies in the ways I have described in many posts here.
If you spend a little time looking for Sticky threads in various forums and also page back through the blog I've made here on my profile page you can find more of these entries
If you have questions about the use of streamers feel free to ask them and I'll give my slant on things.
Ard
