Switch Rod Fly Line Question.

[myt1]

If I were to purchase a 5wt switch rod, then use it for practicing Skagit casting on medium to larger rivers, casting streamers, would I use a normal floating fly line, or should I use a line specifically for Skagit casting?

My idea is to learn and practice using the switch rod, fishing for trout, so I will be able to cast better with a two handed spey rod when I go back to Michigan in the fall to fish for steelhead.

I'm a complete novice at Skagit casting.

I was thinking of taking the switch rod to the Gunnison Gorge and maybe the San Juan.

 

[Bigfly]

Myt1, skagit lines are generally for swinging a streamer.
It is an across-and-down kinda thing.
It is a bit more repetitive (understatement) stripping in to the same place in the line. There isn't a lot of mending........since the thin running line can't turn over the thick section.
Often casting at a color change point in the line.
When I fish other styles of line, scandi or spey, I can fish more like a regular fly fisher. With the ability to mend and cast at any point along the line.
I carry both lines on the water, so I can fish any way I feel...or, how the fish want to be caught!
I overhand cast very little with either style.....rollcast, and snap-t....
Have fun.

Jim

 

[Ard]

I am not a Skagit caster but have used outfits rigged for it. My advice would be to buy the rod through a shop knowledgeable in the rods and accompanying lines. If you start with a matched outfit you will have given yourself a head start on the learning curve. Generally speaking a fly line made for traditional single hand rods will be unsuitable for use with a 2 hand rod.

 

[ia_trouter]

... Generally speaking a fly line made for traditional single hand rods will be unsuitable for use with a 2 hand rod.

You will find some rod manufacturers recommend a single hand line a few sizes heavier for OVERHAND casting on a switch. Which every new switch rod owner seems to think he is going to do. Then many find out a lot of switch rods are not all that much fun to overhand cast anyway. You're going to want a real two hand line in the end to get the good stuff out of your rod.

 

[myt1]

InTouch Switch - RIO Products

After making my initial post I found the above line on the Rio website.

Would this be a good way to go?

 

[Ard]

Even if the rod is an 11'6" the 55' head is going to be hard to handle. Here's why I think that, the line you linked is a 225 grain and that 225 will be spread along the entire 55 feet of belly length.

If you were already an accomplished Spey style caster this would just require some adjustment before you would be able to see 60 foot casts in areas with limited back cast space. For a short 2 hand rod I like the old Beulah Elixir lines or in a pinch one of the Rio Outbound lines having a 35-37 foot head length. The Beulah lines were 37' also. Both these lines have integrated running / shooting line welded right on the back of the heads so there is no messing around there you just spool them up and use them.

If you have an 11 foot or 11'6" rod a 37 foot head may work out for you. I have several 11'6" seven weights with this length head on them. The head length seems right and there are not many blown anchors. You'll figure out what a blown anchor is when you begin using the giant roll cast known as a Spey cast. When the head is too short it can be very hard to develop a cast style that will allow for proper anchoring of the line as you set up. This is something that experienced casters will make adjustments for and overcome but you are going to be a beginner so a little more head length may be an advantage.

I said that I thought the 225 X 55' head was too long because I would imagine that you may have trouble getting the rod to load with so little weight hanging between the rod tip and the anchored line on the water. Once a caster develops their timing and learns various casting strokes this is not such an encumbrance but for a beginner working alone it may be a deal breaker.

Is there anyone or anywhere you can get some basic instruction from? If you are a good single hand caster that may help because you will at least understand how you load up for an effective roll cast. The Spey casts are not much more than multiple step roll casts that require that the rod be placed under load using the anchored line (on the water) and the inertia applied by the caster themselves to the rod through their smooth and constant motions as they set up the cast.

I'm aware that all of this sounds terribly complicated but when you think back to when you read or listened to your first description of how a single or double haul cast was done it isn't so bad. In a way it is the same principle, in single hand casting you use the free hand (line hand) to pull on the line down through the guides to add additional load to the rod as well as line speed. In the 2 hand set up of the cast both hands are on the rod and the water where your line has momentarily anchored itself is the third hand. It is the anchored line lying on the surface that pulls down initially on the rod tip and assists in completely loading the rod for the cast. Opposite actually but similar........

Hope that made some sort of sense, its hard to write these thoughts.

Ard

 

[Bigfly]

Ard had the best thought.....
Go get help.
If you get a recommended rod/line instead of buying and hoping to get the right setup, you will be happier..
If I was to bet.........
Lines are confusing and crucial to actually getting your game on.
Each rod is only as good as the line chosen.
A person can get it together by trial and error, but that could take a few years...........and, in the mean time, you might give up. An 11 ft rod should have a head 3x as long as the rod.
So, 55ft will be long...
Go get'em...
With a 5 or 6 weight switch rod, you can single or double hand spey.
Mostly I single hand out to 60 +feet...
Two hand it if I need more......

Jim

 

[ia_trouter]

Here is a pretty good 10 minute primer on skagit, scandi and traditional lines. It's a Rio commercial but it is still very informative. Rio's website also has a Spey Central section I found useful when I started using two hand rods a year ago. It's all overwhelming at first but after a bit of reading and videos it will make sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fjdfiNjj0E

Spey Central - RIO Products

If you can't get access to personalized help with your rod/line selection then definitely make sure you get a rod with published line recommendations. A line of the correct weight will allow you to proceed in your learning much easier.

 

[fredaevans]

Here is a pretty good 10 minute primer on skagit, scandi and traditional lines. It's a Rio commercial but it is still very informative. Rio's website also has a Spey Central section I found useful when I started using two hand rods a year ago. It's all overwhelming at first but after a bit of reading and videos it will make sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fjdfiNjj0E

Spey Central - RIO Products

If you can't get access to personalized help with your rod/line selection then definitely make sure you get a rod with published line recommendations. A line of the correct weight will allow you to proceed in your learning much easier.

Lots of 'this line for that rod,' yada-yada ... but if this is a one off rod for given fishing conditions you (hundreds of us do and have a new rod on my desk with line(s) waiting!!:wavetowel) you call Steve Godshall (via r b meiser's web site if needed) and have him build you 'your line/your place/your fish/your conditions.

Probably a mental issue but each of my rods has 'The line' of Steve's; pay more? No, but a confidence builder .. YAZZER! Did I hook a fish? Probably not but that was not a gear issue. No bitties, save for bugs .. yuck.

 

[jaybo41]

The other thing to consider is that if you plan to use the 5wt rod for Steelhead you are very likely to be under gunned. For Steelhead in Michigan I'd go 7 if you're fishing steelhead exclusive and possibly an 8 to deal with really hot steelies and Kings.

7-8 will be too much stick for trout, even in Colorado. A 4, 5 or 6 would do you well out there.

The Switch line you referenced in your comment is a long bellied line more similar to traditional spey line. I find it to be good for nymphing and swinging light streamers with shot, but if you were looking to do skagit casting and use t-tips, you'd be better suited with the Switch Chucker. You could use the Switch line but you'd be better suited by lining up if you were to use that with tips. The Chucker is the bomb with lighter, shorter tips once you get that dialed in but doesn't do so well if you're nymphing since the head is shorter and more stout and well, a Skagit head. This is why lots of guys use two reels different lines or they go with running line and multiple heads. There are advantages to each, but I'm finding I much prefer integrated running lines better for casting. The versatility of running line and different heads is hard to beat though.

As the others have pointed out, I would really encourage you to go to a shop familiar with two hand rods and seek their help getting you dialed in. If you have the chance to get out with a guide who can teach you some basics and let you use their gear, I'd recommend that as well. I am recommending this approach as this is what I did and I found it to be incredibly helpful. Not only would you get some instruction, you'd get to test out some rods/line and learn so much more than you ever would in a shop by actually fishing with the tackle. Not to mention it might help you determine if you really want to go forward with two handed rods. I don't mean to discourage you from jumping into the mix but there is so much to learn and not everyone that jumps in seems to stick with it.

On the other hand, I and many others think they're great fun and offer a very enjoyable way to fish.

 

[runningfish]

From my learning experience; I recommend you to use a shorter Scandi head (Beulah Elixir V2) and cast it skagit style (sustain anchor) and floating tips. Skagit head is shorter and when learning you WILL blow you anchor by going too fast and by lifting your casting elbow too much. With "shorter" scandi head you'll have more buffers for your errors. Today's switch rods are around 10'6"~11'6" and my ratio for rod length to head length is 1:1 plus at least 10ft of tip that makes it 1:2 ratio. I think 1:2.5 or 1:3 rod length to total head & tip ratio will be right to start with and of course with the right grain weight as well.

Just go slow and don't rush your rip or sweep. I've watched many videos of people making Snap-T and rushed the sweep even before the fly hit the water surface.

by the way, don't go with a single hand line for your double hand rod. Overhead cast with a double hand is only a marketing gimmick.

 

[ia_trouter]

by the way, don't go with a single hand line for your double hand rod. Overhead cast with a double hand is only a marketing gimmick.

They do talk themselves in circles some. A switch rod is supposed to shine when you are in close quarters. They will launch a fly 100ft with an overhand cast (with two hands), but you need a bunch of room behind you so what's the point? I'm not sure why you would compromise your line choice for spey casting unless you wanted to make a surf rod out of your switch rod.

 

[Ard]

My friend Jayson jaybo41 made a good point, if you are looking to steelhead fish get an 11'6" seven weight. The rod will be fine for trout fishing, I use one for trout all the time and when an accident happens you can land a 45 pound king on one too.

If you go 7 weight you will be in the 475 grain range for line weight. Fred made a point about getting lines made by Steve Godshall, I have 5 of them and he made the 36' 475 grain lines for all 3 of my seven weight rods. He puts a vinyl coated shooting line behind the head that works like greased lightening.

 

[myt1]

Thanks so much.

I think I'm leaning toward the appropriate weight Rio Switch Chucker and then some lessons.

I appreciate all the help.

Cheers, Rick

 

[Bigfly]

Recently I picked up Sage One 7wt 11'6 switch.
Found it a bit big to single-hand, and that's after single-handing with a 6wt switch for many years......
Since I have full spey rods for Steelhead I sold the new 7wt and I'm in the market for another to single-hand with.
6wts rule on smaller water. 60-80ft.
My pick for most fun/versatile line is the "fresh water" Salmo /Steelhead.
Although it may aggravate....I use a 9wt on my 6wt rod.
Rollcasts better than the Chucker lines.
It will turn over many big split shot....swing a tip.....and throw a dry.
I have scandi, spey, and Skagit lines, but this line stays on my rod most.

Jim

 

[ia_trouter]

... If you go 7 weight you will be in the 475 grain range for line weight. Fred made a point about getting lines made by Steve Godshall, I have 5 of them and he made the 36' 475 grain lines for all 3 of my seven weight rods. He puts a vinyl coated shooting line behind the head that works like greased lightening.

You and Fred finally broke me down. As luck would have it my new 7/8WT switch arrived today. I made the call to Godshall. That shooting line sounds good. I'm sick of stripping in 40ft of mono for the next cast.