So, I'm practicing my Skagit casting and this happened.

[myt1]

I went to a local lake to practice my Skagit casting. There wasn't a steelhead within a thousand miles.

Initially my setup had a beadhead woolly bugger and four feet of 30lb. Maxima attached to a ten foot section of T-14.

By the end of my hour-plus practice session I was left with the photo above.

First I lost the woolly bugger, then the leader, then the T-14 started falling apart.

More than a few times I heard a noise that sounded like a whip snapping while casting.

In general I have a very slow casting motion and I was working on speeding things up.

Any suggestions?...besides, take up tennis.

 

[Ard]

Honestly it would be so easy if we lived near one another to fix this. You are indeed cracking the end of the line and if there is anyone you could get to instruct on technique it would be well worth the time and or money spent.

If this never happened prior to 'speeding things up' then I would go back to what you were doing before and reevaluate the need to speed things up.

If I could see you cast I may be able to help but there are many on here much better at casting and trouble shooting than I am so...........

 

[ia_trouter]

Are we just looking at busted up T-14 with any other the leader and tippet already gone? Like Ard I wish I could see this up close. This almost has to be a severe timing issue which I suspect you already know. Make no mistake you busted that up like a champion. Hang in there, you will get it working.

 

[dillon]

As Ard said it's pretty hard to advise without seeing you cast. However, if you are learning to cast, T-14 and a weighted fly is pretty heavy stuff. I'd suggest a floating or very light tip and a piece of yarn tied to the leader instead of a fly. Work on the snap t and double spey, if you are not already doing so. If private instruction is not available or affordable, watch some you tube video and try it again. Work on setting the anchor with a short piece of the fly line on the water, and creating a d-loop. Apply gentle power with a bottom hand pull. Use a loose grip and easy push with the top hand. Good luck, it takes awhile to get it down.

 

[willyf]

Casting issues aside... this is what happens when you cast without a fly and leader. Skagit casting creates a lot of speed at the end of your line. The fly slows it down considerably. Without that, you're putting tremendous stress on the leader and tip.

 

[runningfish]

When you slow down that T-14 sinks too deep and your cast fall apart, when you speed things up you blow your anchor with that short skagit head.

I know that a lot of people said that Skagit heads will make it easier for beginner to learn the spey cast. Maybe it is true if you have a mentor or an instructor holding your hands and teaching you the dynamic of the cast. But for someone who is a self-taught kinda guy it would be a different story....maybe.

I don't know your skagit setup, but when I learned....I am still learning; I used a slower rod, shorter scandi head (Beulah Elixir V2) and a Rage head and floating polyleader, an unweighted streamer and at local lakes. That setup is very forgiving for beginner mistakes. The head isn't too short and you can do skagit casts and touch and go as well. You can dial in your tempo and learn to use or to rotate your torso for the cast. Unlike sinking setup, floating setup will let you check where you place your anchor and will allow you to take your sweet time preparing your sweep, rod angle, forming the D loop and the forward cast. You can easily see the end of a sweep when the polyleader stop ripping the surface which means time to prepare your forward cast.

Your current skagit head and t-14 to start with in a lake is just too much. The T-14 will sink like rock in stillwater and it'll force you to speed up your cast which will blow your anchor creating that whipping sound. If you were 1 second late or too slow and trying to figure out your next move the t-14 is already at least 12" underwater. So yeah try a floating setup first, you'll get a hang of it in no time.

IMO learning to spey cast in stillwater is really good to learn how to keep the rod loaded without the help of the river current. Competition castings are all being done in stillwater right?

My favorite setup is intermediate skagit head with T tips and iMOW tips. They are heavy to lift out of the water and will sink immediately in stillwater but very fun to cast and will get your fly deep.

 

[eastfly66]

My guess is Arizona is probably not over flowing with 2 hand instructors/classes right ?

You might want to plan a mini vacation and attend a Spey Clave or visit an instructor on location. I go to one each year in NY and learn something each time , plus it is a great mini get away. Good BBQ too !

 

[myt1]

When you slow down that T-14 sinks too deep and your cast fall apart, when you speed things up you blow your anchor with that short skagit head.

I know that a lot of people said that Skagit heads will make it easier for beginner to learn the spey cast. Maybe it is true if you have a mentor or an instructor holding your hands and teaching you the dynamic of the cast. But for someone who is a self-taught kinda guy it would be a different story....maybe.

I don't know your skagit setup, but when I learned....I am still learning; I used a slower rod, shorter scandi head (Beulah Elixir V2) and a Rage head and floating polyleader, an unweighted streamer and at local lakes. That setup is very forgiving for beginner mistakes. The head isn't too short and you can do skagit casts and touch and go as well. You can dial in your tempo and learn to use or to rotate your torso for the cast. Unlike sinking setup, floating setup will let you check where you place your anchor and will allow you to take your sweet time preparing your sweep, rod angle, forming the D loop and the forward cast. You can easily see the end of a sweep when the polyleader stop ripping the surface which means time to prepare your forward cast.

Your current skagit head and t-14 to start with in a lake is just too much. The T-14 will sink like rock in stillwater and it'll force you to speed up your cast which will blow your anchor creating that whipping sound. If you were 1 second late or too slow and trying to figure out your next move the t-14 is already at least 12" underwater. So yeah try a floating setup first, you'll get a hang of it in no time.

IMO learning to spey cast in stillwater is really good to learn how to keep the rod loaded without the help of the river current. Competition castings are all being done in stillwater right?

My favorite setup is intermediate skagit head with T tips and iMOW tips. They are heavy to lift out of the water and will sink immediately in stillwater but very fun to cast and will get your fly deep.

Runningfish, thank you. Thanks to the rest of the above posts as well.

I was tossing a lot of weight around, and things were sinking really fast; add to that my less than impeccable casting technique and I'm sure that all contributed to destroying my setup.

I like the idea of using a floating setup.

If instead of using T-14 I were to substitute Rio Scandi Versileader 10ft floating, would that be better for practice?

 

[eastfly66]

If instead of using T-14 I were to substitute Rio Scandi Versileader 10ft floating, would that be better for practice?

What is the rod length and head length ?

 

[runningfish]

What is the rod length and head length ?

+1

Myt1, you're welcomed. About using 10ft floating polyleader, what is the skagit head length and grain that you have right now? Polyleaders are best used with scandi heads like the Elixir and Rage (recommended). But, if you had a T-14 as your tip, that means you are using at least 600 grain skagit head. That Rio Scandi 10ft polyleader is probably be too light for you. But give it a try or look for a 10ft floating MOW tip in heavy size.

I am also recommending you to lengthen your shooting head. My average rod and shooting head + tip length ration is 1:2.2, say I am using a 10'8" and 10'4" rods I can get away with 22ft (head+tip) setup. The first time I learned, with 11~11.5 ft rod, my total head setup up 30ft-33ft.

Or....you can invest for the right shooting head for the right price by calling Steve Godshall (541-840-2594). I've had him built me over 10 custom heads tailored to my rods and casting flaws and helped me to build 4 switch rods. I am actually waiting for a new intermediate head from him now.
Give him a call and be prepared for a long interview and to receive free knowledge about spey.
Note: prepare a pen and a notebook to jot down some info and he won't pressure you into buying his products either.

 

[myt1]

What is the rod length and head length ?

I have a Redington Prospector, 8wt, 13.5 feet.

I'm using Rio Skagit Max, 550gr, 23 ft long. I used the line selector feature on the Rio website to choose this line; although I might have screwed up, I said I would be "dredging", not "swinging".

Sadly, the above rod and line setup is likely only to be used for practice on the local lakes here in Phoenix.

When I fish for real I will fly back to Michigan and use whatever rod the guides are providing.

I took my rod to Michigan this year, but since the rod case is very long it was a real hassle to travel with, so I think I will just use the guide's rods from here on out.

Thanks everybody.

 

[eastfly66]

That's not too far off from what I have 7133 ,7126 & 7136 my scandi is 450 @ 33' and skagit 525 @ 23' . I use versileaders and poly floating tips 10' on my scandi and they cast great. I would wait for the other guys to comment on the tips being too light for the 8 wt grain window , that I really can't comment about not having anything over the 450 grain.

 

[ia_trouter]

I have a Redington Prospector, 8wt, 13.5 feet.

I'm using Rio Skagit Max, 550gr, 23 ft long. I used the line selector feature on the Rio website to choose this line; although I might have screwed up, I said I would be "dredging", not "swinging".

Sadly, the above rod and line setup is likely only to be used for practice on the local lakes here in Phoenix.

When I fish for real I will fly back to Michigan and use whatever rod the guides are providing.

I took my rod to Michigan this year, but since the rod case is very long it was a real hassle to travel with, so I think I will just use the guide's rods
Thanks everybody.

That flyline weight sounds about right for an 8WT. I use that on my 7/8WT when throwing heavy leaders. It isn't too far off. The head length is not outrageously short like many of the current skagit offerings. 20ft or less is common now (which I do no prefer so far). You should be able to cast a 23ft head without blowing the anchor when you speed it up a bit. I read your original post carefully. If that damage to the T14 was caused by casting 50 times after the terminal tackle was already gone that is what I would expect to see. Especially if you were trying to cast fast and the timing was off.

Keep the faith. You'll will figure it out. There are a lot of good skagit casting vids on youtube if you need to regroup. Good luck.

 

[Unknownflyman]

I don't know if this could help but I was told I had to work my way up to t-14 t-18 and half chicken dumbbell flies.

I started out with t-7 and yarn puff for a fly.

I was later taught the tricks of casting weight, 10' sink tips and dumbbell eyes after I had my stroke down.

That magic of keeping everything moving and fast enough to avoid line stick and slow enough to load the rod and launch that rig.

That being said, now most of the time, t-11 mow tips and cone tubes are almost too much in high water.

I don't like going over t-11 for a sink tip, I want that streamer right above their head not dragging bottom.

 

[mjkirshner]

I have a Redington Prospector, 8wt, 13.5 feet.

I'm in the learning phase too, using a Redington CPX 11' switch rod. I communicated at length (ad nauseum?) with guys at Rio, Airflo and OPST, and eventually ended up with a 400 grain 16.5' Commando head from OPST and 10' floating and intermediate MOW tips, and I use a regular mono leader. I throw either unweighted streamers or lightly weighted flies like Clousers or bonefish flies. I am still pretty far from getting the distance I want, but if I go s-l-o-o-o-w and don't try to overpower the cast, it is working out pretty well. It is counter-intuitive, but the faster and harder you go the farther the fly doesn't. It often amazes me how nice a cast I get from a slow sweep and just a light tug on the lower handle. Then I speed up and/or yank on the handle, blow the anchor, and the fly dumps in the water at half the distance I got from the slow cast.

 

[Fkrow]

If you are destroying your T-14 ,,,, this equals one easy answer.

Too much power and speed on the initial part of the forward cast. Slow down to a slow motion sweep and circle up to key position,,, slowly begin the forward stroke and at the very end,,, a short quick lower hand speed up and stop.

It is very common for beginners to over power the forward cast with Skagit lines.

Regards,
FK

 

[cb]

Sounds like you are having fun progressing - that's what it's all about!

I can almost hear the whistling/swishing noise made by your casts (and I'm in the UK!). Spey casting should be almost silent. You will know when you have done a good Spey cast - when you can hardly hear it.

Trust me on this!

 

[fredaevans]

I went to a local lake to practice my Skagit casting. There wasn't a steelhead within a thousand miles.

Initially my setup had a beadhead woolly bugger and four feet of 30lb. Maxima attached to a ten foot section of T-14.

By the end of my hour-plus practice session I was left with the photo above.

First I lost the woolly bugger, then the leader, then the T-14 started falling apart.

More than a few times I heard a noise that sounded like a whip snapping while casting.

In general I have a very slow casting motion and I was working on speeding things up.

Any suggestions?...besides, take up tennis.

WOW!!

I've seen a fly line come apart but nothing to that extent. Only way I can think this could happen is you're over powering the cast and if you've lost your 'fly' you are going to get a 'crack the whip' effect. The fly is a very important part of your 'anchor.'

The second thing that comes to mind is were you actually doing an 'over head' cast rather than a Scandi or Skagit? As these are both casts are water loaded, other than your 'D Loop,' nothing else should be going behind you.d

Item last is the 'head' was just plain defective; it happens.

fae

 

[Ard]

Now that the thread is alive again I was curious, are things getting better. Just a couple posts above Colin suggests that your casting should be almost silent, I agree with this assessment. My only noise is caused by my line lifting from the waters surface, it makes a bit of sound. I fish with many folks who are producing quite a loud swishing sound and often they are having some difficulties with the casts.

 

[myt1]

Thanks so much for the additional feedback.

Sadly, I haven't been to the lake for any additional practice since my original post. My next steelhead trip isn't until the fall so I got side tracked and have actually been practicing my one handed traditional casting instead...which I kinda suck at as well.

Two things.

On the advice of this thread, for practicing on a lake, I did purchace a floating leader. Although I know most of my casting problems lie in my technique, some of it is related to the fact I was using a full-on sinking set up in standing water and I really had to work fast to keep my line from sinking to the bottom.

Also, I'm the proud new owner of a NRX two-handed 8wt., 13 ft rod. I got it on sale at Americal Legacy Fishing. This rod should be significantly stiffer than my Redington Prospector and I'm hoping this will help me cast my heavy set-up with a more smooth and quiet stroke.

Along the same lines as having a quiet stroke...very good advice...I have to work on having a more stationary stroke. When I first started skagit casting, I would start my stroke on one side of the boat and by the time I was finished casting I would be clear on the other side of the boat. As I may have mentioned, I'm no expert...I'm not even an advanced beginner.

Thanks so much for all the help.