Just got my OPST Commando Head- How to Cast?

[kaisirs]

Recently got OPST's commando head and I was wondering how people were able to attain such casting distances of 60-70 feet.. right now I'm using the 150grain set up, wit a 8'6" 3wt Redington Trout. At this point in time, I'm only able to casting 40-45 feet tops. I figured my casting is the problem, so I recorded myself casting but can't seem to put my finger on why my distance seems relatively limited...

Here's a video. Let me know what you guys think!

OPST Commando Tip Skagit Casting Practice - YouTube

 

[huronfly]

Looks like you are blowing your anchor on most of those casts; try slowing wayyyy down on your sweep, to the point where you think you can not go any slower - you almost can't sweep too slow with these lines. That will fix a lot of things.

Also the trajectory of your d-loop does not need to be elevated with those short heads, try sweeping with the tip of your rod at a level plane through the cast rather than raising gradually. This should also help prevent blown anchors.

I like a bit of overhang as well, I notice you pull the back of the head right to the rod tip, I like to keep 12"-24" of running line out of the tip depending on wading depth... experiment, see what you like, with a short rod maybe you will even find 12" to be too much.

I also noticed you are setting your anchor pretty far away from you, try to keep it within a rods' length.

Don't get frustrated with not hitting 60-70 feet either, while these lines can be cast far on light rods in experienced hands, it's not exactly what it was designed for. They were designed to allow very light rods the capability of delivering large flies and/or heavier sink tips. Keep at it!

 

[Hirdy]

Danny has nailed it. You're ripping the anchor off the water on all of those casts and his solutions are correct. Slow down and work on setting the anchor in the correct place.

For research, spend time looking for videos on how to cast two hander rods, specifically "Skagit casting". The physics is the same for those big rods and your one. The casting actions are exactly the same too, except you have one hand on the rod instead of two.

I also recommend getting your hands on the book "Single-Hand Spey Casting" by Simon Gawesworth (and any videos you can find of him.)

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[Hirdy]

I forgot to mention two things: Firstly, welcome to the forum!

Secondly, there are some fundamentals you're missing.

If your target is North on an imaginary compass, your anchor* should be about a rod length away towards NE (because you're right handed). The D-Loop should be aimed toward South but it is aimed there by stopping the rod at the SE point of the compass. The D-Loop should always be heading South for the most efficient cast.

As your D-Loop grows from the line's momentum after you've stopped rotating at SE, you need to lift the rod up (the whole rod, not just the tip) so that it is poised for the forward cast and essentially in the same place you'd start a normal overhead cast from. The hand should be somewhere near your ear as if you were speaking on the phone.

Your rod tip should travel straight towards the target inside the position of the anchor. You're currently casting over the top of it with a side-arm cast on many casts.

You can do all of this without the haul you're adding. At this stage and for those distances, let the rod and the rod hand do the work. Leave your line hand out of it. When you're learning this stuff, the haul complicates it too much, and it's already VERY complicated! :thumbsup:

Cheers,
Graeme

* The "anchor" is the line, leader and fly laid out on the water. It's the part of the system that stops the D-loop flying off uncontrolled. The only time that leaves the water is when the rest of the line is on its way to the target: any earlier and it's a "blown anchor". The closest part of it should be at that NE point.

 

[flytie09]

Slow down your take away once your anchor is set. You're snatching the entire line off the water to shoot it. That would be the first tip.... an all to common fault with many new to double hand casts.

Secondly you must have a sink tip of some sort for these things to work. Mono leaders won't work. I couldn't see what you were using.

And find somewhere where you can cast unimpeded. If you nailed a cast.... you'd be in the trees.

Practice and you'll get it.

ft09

 

[cb]

Recently got OPST's commando head and I was wondering how people were able to attain such casting distances of 60-70 feet.. right now I'm using the 150grain set up, wit a 8'6" 3wt Redington Trout. At this point in time, I'm only able to casting 40-45 feet tops. I figured my casting is the problem, so I recorded myself casting but can't seem to put my finger on why my distance seems relatively limited...

Here's a video. Let me know what you guys think!

OPST Commando Tip Skagit Casting Practice - YouTube

Smashing post!

For me you are trying to run before learning to walk. I think all your loops etc are pretty good actually (though should be closer to your body and 180 aligned) but your final delivery cast is the biggest issue.

I would focus solely on a simple overhead cast (perhaps on grass) making sure you stop high and have good controlled wrist-snap until you have mastered it. Then go back to the Spey type casts (which you will master very quickly) ending on your newly mastered delivery cast with good high stop.

I know in Spey the loops are the 'fun' bit - but the delivery cast can undo all the good work!

 

[Unknownflyman]

A couple things I see. When you snap the line you need to have better placement for the tear and the throw.

Snap it so the line is next you in a straight line pointing where you want to cast to. A slight loop out in front of the rod and rod tip out in front of you just off to the casting arm side.

You have a nice side arm which works great getting under trees but is not really a distance cast. When you tear from good line placement get your rod tip high and cast almost overhead at a slight degree out and make the forward cast and stop high.

Part of it is overhang, line placement, the tear loading the rod, the tear should be pretty much silent no loud splashing as the forward cast starts you can snap the rod a little but you should hear no whistles, which means blowing anchor or you lost the load so you need to be slowing down the cast.

The length of the rod has much to do with distance as well as backbone and the speed of the recovery. You are casting a really light rig, most of the guys getting distance are using two handed rods over 11'

I use my commando on a spey rod in 7 wt so I can seriously launch that thing out of sight.

One more thing the type of cast, my longest cast is snake roll to single spey, try practicing single spey, it is a good distance cast and one I used more than snap T or circle spey when fishing steelhead.


Keep on, keeping on.

 

[madison320]

I just ordered the same thing for my 7'6" 3wt. The 150 grain head with a 5' floating tip.

I don't understand why spey casting has all those fancy extra moves. I'm confused as to why you can't just do a basic roll cast, although I like to bring the rod back low like in this video (40s mark):

YouTube

Also the fly hardly stops moving so it won't have a chance to sink if you roll cast this way. It seems like when you do that spey line repositioning the fly will sink.

Also with the sidearm move on the way back I can change direction just by sweeping more or less distance. Maybe with the longer spey rods those extra moves are more necessary?

 

[huronfly]

I just ordered the same thing for my 7'6" 3wt. The 150 grain head with a 5' floating tip.

I don't understand why spey casting has all those fancy extra moves. I'm confused as to why you can't just do a basic roll cast, although I like to bring the rod back low like in this video (40s mark):

YouTube

Also the fly hardly stops moving so it won't have a chance to sink if you roll cast this way. It seems like when you do that spey line repositioning the fly will sink.

Also with the sidearm move on the way back I can change direction just by sweeping more or less distance. Maybe with the longer spey rods those extra moves are more necessary?

All those fancy moves reposition the anchor to where you can sweep into a cast. If you tried to change direction 90 degrees with a roll cast you'll notice it is not very efficient. When you can position your anchor in-line with your target you get a nice parallel line from your anchor-to your d-loop- to your target, Simon Gawesworth refers to this as the 'train tracks'. Making it much more efficient.

Look up the single spey cast, it is probably more along the lines of what you are thinking, it is essentially a change of direction dynamic roll cast, but Skagit heads don't touch and go cast as well as they cast with sustained anchor. That is why it does not matter that the fly sinks during the setup, in fact, with Skagit casts you will likely find you actually cast better if the fly digs in, this helps 'stick' your anchor... Those moves are not just to look fancy.

 

[madison320]

All those fancy moves reposition the anchor to where you can sweep into a cast. If you tried to change direction 90 degrees with a roll cast you'll notice it is not very efficient. When you can position your anchor in-line with your target you get a nice parallel line from your anchor-to your d-loop- to your target, Simon Gawesworth refers to this as the 'train tracks'. Making it much more efficient.

Look up the single spey cast, it is probably more along the lines of what you are thinking, it is essentially a change of direction dynamic roll cast, but Skagit heads don't touch and go cast as well as they cast with sustained anchor. That is why it does not matter that the fly sinks during the setup, in fact, with Skagit casts you will likely find you actually cast better if the fly digs in, this helps 'stick' your anchor... Those moves are not just to look fancy.

Yes, the single spey is similar to what I'm talking about. Except I don't think I usually cast over the "upstream shoulder". Assume my fly is directly downstream (6 o'clock) and I want to cast straight across (9 o'clock). I normally sweep my rod, low to the water, past where I want to cast, maybe 10 o'clock, then sweep it back low behind my downstream shoulder and roll cast. Doesn't that put the anchor in the proper place, directly in line with my cast? Plus the fly is where it won't hit me or get tangled. It seems like with the single spey you run the risk of the fly getting in the way.

If you could recommend just one cast for my setup, what would it be? I've got a 7'6" 3wt with the 150 grain OPST head. Fishing in 100-200 cfs creeks with a moderate current.

Thanks!

 

[Hirdy]

Madison,

Firstly, are you using some sort of 24 hour clock? If downstream is 6 o'clock, surely 90 degrees (across the river) is at 3 or 9 o'clock. In any case, you're not telling us which side of the river you're standing on (left bank or right bank.)

Back to your question about anchor placement: there are two things to consider.

1. Which way is the wind blowing? You want that anchor downwind of you for safety reasons.
2. Where are you casting to? You need to form the D-loop 180 degrees away from that point.

Most instruction I've read talks about combinations of downstream or upstream winds and left or right banks. That confuses the hell out of me, since I mainly fish salt water with little to no current. I just think about wind blowing up or down the line's direction as it is lying before the cast begins. That really simplifies things for me. ("Downstring" = snake roll or double spey, "Upstring" = single spey or snap cast.)

After working out those things, you then decide if you're fishing "touch and go" (quicker) or "sustained anchor casts" (great for heavy flies and easier to time.) In practice though, you're mainly fishing one type of cast or the other with a given fly and line setup, so the last was probably already in your rhythm for the session anyway.

It sounds complex, but you can normally get by with just a few casts to learn. (See the bold bit above.) From the description of your cast, you haven't done the research yet, so get reading.

Cheers,
Graeme

 

[madison320]

Madison,

Firstly, are you using some sort of 24 hour clock? If downstream is 6 o'clock, surely 90 degrees (across the river) is at 3 or 9 o'clock. In any case, you're not telling us which side of the river you're standing on (left bank or right bank.)

Back to your question about anchor placement: there are two things to consider.

1. Which way is the wind blowing? You want that anchor downwind of you for safety reasons.
2. Where are you casting to? You need to form the D-loop 180 degrees away from that point.

Most instruction I've read talks about combinations of downstream or upstream winds and left or right banks. That confuses the hell out of me, since I mainly fish salt water with little to no current. I just think about wind blowing up or down the line's direction as it is lying before the cast begins. That really simplifies things for me. ("Downstring" = snake roll or double spey, "Upstring" = single spey or snap cast.)

After working out those things, you then decide if you're fishing "touch and go" (quicker) or "sustained anchor casts" (great for heavy flies and easier to time.) In practice though, you're mainly fishing one type of cast or the other with a given fly and line setup, so the last was probably already in your rhythm for the session anyway.

It sounds complex, but you can normally get by with just a few casts to learn. (See the bold bit above.) From the description of your cast, you haven't done the research yet, so get reading.

Cheers,
Graeme

Oops! My clock is broken! I went back and fixed it.

I've been way off on this. I saw a video on skagit casting (and how it differs from spey) and now it's starting to make sense. I didn't even realize skagit casting was a "thing". Anyway now I see how the basic cast is supposed to work by ripping your line off the water. It's way different than roll casting. And I can see why my line felt so heavy, I was trying to pull the entire length of line thru thru the water instead of positioning half of it above then ripping it off. Hopefully I can figure this out, it looks awesome.

 

[jawz]

I've been way off on this. I saw a video on skagit casting (and how it differs from spey) and now it's starting to make sense. I didn't even realize skagit casting was a "thing". Anyway now I see how the basic cast is supposed to work by ripping your line off the water. It's way different than roll casting. And I can see why my line felt so heavy, I was trying to pull the entire length of line thru thru the water instead of positioning half of it above then ripping it off. Hopefully I can figure this out, it looks awesome.

Hi Madison,

Here's a nice video
Great single handed spey casting tips for beginners - YouTube
where the instruction is very clear and covers all the basic spey casts (and more) you need for casting with that micro skagit setup.

All the principles in "regular" spey casting and skagit casting are the same, the only difference is that skagit heads are so short and heavy that you have to slow down the sweep to produce the D loop or the anchor will blow off the water and mess up your cast. And shorter heads need shorter hand movements than longer ones.

 

[madison320]

Recently got OPST's commando head and I was wondering how people were able to attain such casting distances of 60-70 feet.. right now I'm using the 150grain set up, wit a 8'6" 3wt Redington Trout. At this point in time, I'm only able to casting 40-45 feet tops. I figured my casting is the problem, so I recorded myself casting but can't seem to put my finger on why my distance seems relatively limited...

Here's a video. Let me know what you guys think!

OPST Commando Tip Skagit Casting Practice - YouTube

I'm in almost the same boat as you. I had a breakthrough today. When you start your "sweep" try starting with your rod tip touching the water and then raise it as you sweep back. Raise it AT A STEEP ANGLE! Like almost a 45 degree angle (I think). It'll be almost vertical when it gets behind you. I was sweeping the rod back almost parallel to the water and the line was making a "U" where it was coming off the water. When I started raising my rod tip on the way back it made that nice rat tail thing and my cast went a mile ... well maybe 60 feet.

Also practice in an open spot so you don't need to worry about hitting stuff.

Edit: I think I figured out a couple more things. One is to try to make your sweep more circular, I was sweeping straight back. When I started sweeping around behind me it worked a lot better. Also it made a big difference for me to start the sweep as soon as I finished the snap T (or whatever) . That way the streamer doesn't have time to sink. I was actually starting my sweep before the streamer was hitting the water from the snap T, if that makes any sense.