Spey Casting Question

mcnerney

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I'm new to casting with a two hander and I'm left handed. On river left I have been using a Double Spey cast, on river right I have been doing a Snap T and have been practicing with basically no wind. This last trip I was on river right with a hard wind blowing into my right shoulder, so I do a snap T to get the line up river of my position, but I'm standing in about 18 inches of very fast water, by the time I get my D loop formed and cast, the fly line is right at my feet. I know this is kind of a special situation, but I'm wondering if there isn't a better cast for that type of situation that I should be using? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!
 

Ard

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When the current speed increases Larry, the rotation speed must speed up also. By rotation I mean the move where your rod goes back over the shoulder to form the loop. When you speed up the rotation it may be helpful to lower your arms and thus the rod a bit so you don't rip the anchored line off the water.

You may also want to make sure the line is placed a little farther out toward the center of the stream rather than straight above you. This way even if you're a bit slow on rotating into the D loop position the fly won't be right beside you.

I was just fishing a spot last week where my rotation or sweep into the D loop had to be made so quickly that it seemed weird. Once I got onto the timing the casts went where I wanted them but I had to hurry due to current speed.
 

dillon

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Hi Larry,
The Perry Poke is designed to reposition the line. In the situation you described, begin by making the snap t and then do the poke. I often use it when I am in a situation where I'm having difficulty setting the anchor, or use it spontaneously when an anchor is blown. It's a good one to have in the repertoire.

Dhttp://flyfishingtraditions.blogspot.com/2011/11/perry-poke-positioning-cast.html
 

eastfly66

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Other side Larry, cack handed or snap it on a line straight up river so the fly is away from you.
I'm a south paw too Larry, what he ^ said, I go cack handed it that case.

Keep you elbows in the box and watch you anchor point...
 

Lewis Chessman

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Not being facetious, but it's always worth learning to cast off your 'wrong shoulder' whichever hand you prefer and whether you are singling or doubling. It takes a little practice and may never feel as natural - but it is always better than a fly in the face.
I know from my own experience that I'd never practise with the other arm unless conditions forced me to - and then, of course, I'm trying to learn the new cast in an adverse situation! Have a practice for 15 minutes every time you are out and each cast will soon become more fluent.

Having said that, when using a Snap-T or Circle-C, instead of lifting vertically to begin the cast (12 o'clock), lift diagonally towards the bank (about half ten or one thirty) then perform the cast as normal. This should anchor your line further out into the river than a straight lift will and keep you safe.

I agree with Ard about having to speed up the rotation in faster water - and here the ripping sound will be lost in the water's tumult. But slow down again when you wade into quieter water. Here's why ....

I was chatting with a Beat Gillie on the Spey this year who'd been watching an angler ripping his line from the water on the sweep. "Every time," he said despondantly, "I watched the fish just drop back another few feet until he'd put them all down. He killed the pool''
I think we often forget how efficiently sound travels through water (consider radar, for instance) and every 'SSSssllllurrrrpppp!' we make gets transmitted to the fish in an instant. On slower waters try and keep it quiet. :)
 

Unknownflyman

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Very true, good posts, my stealth cast is always the single spey, sometimes I use a snake roll and what my rod tip looks like is this-

I make a “e” with the rod tip which lays the line out for a touch pulling back and then single spey it.

The trick is the pressure on the pull to get the line to land on the touch and go, just right. It is one continuous cast.

One of the things that I’ve really worked on was the tear with no sound and now I can do it. My friend was really on me about that.

You can tear with no sound and make the cast while loading the rod all the way through. But generally in tighter areas where fish are close I single spey.
 

eastfly66

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I agree with Ard about having to speed up the rotation in faster water
Question for you guys, would you say you are really increasing the speed of the rotation or could it be a more compact cast ? I've been thinking about this after the last trip and think I am actually doing both without thinking of it ......this is a good thing I think , sort of Zen like ...:)
 

Ard

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Both Paul, I speed up and drop the height of the rod which results in tucking in the elbows as the shoulders and arms are lowered. After I've made the move over the shoulder and know my line is zipping up off the water I then raise the arms thus the rod and let it fly.

All of that happens so quick I'd need a good angle video and then slow it down so the movements could easily be seen. If I can get some camera help again I'll try to make a bad cast video. I think that if we could watch a series of bad casts and then see one good one followed by a slow motion of the corrected cast there would be much to learn.

Trying to describe what I'm doing or how I do it are why some of my posts run into 500 to 1000 words.............

I should add that Lewis made a very good point in his post above. While we can get away with a lot when fishing the swift stuff, under normal fishing conditions we should be trying to have really quiet casting. If you are hearing a great deal of 'Swishing' from your rod or 'Slurping' from the line there is something wrong. Even a perfect cast is not completely silent, the zipping sound as the line races back along the anchored section should sound like that (I think) a zipping noise.

On the high speed sweep and rotate casts the zipping sound will be more pronounced but not excessively so.
 

eastfly66

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On the high speed sweep and rotate casts the zipping sound will be more pronounced but not excessively so.
Well, if a silent cast is indicative of a good cast than I am light years ahead of you guys at least in my imagination because I can't hear worth a sh*t anymore :)

All kidding aside , I get what your sayin and when I do hear or see the spray it usually produces a crappy loop....I can still see pretty well anyway .

A video would be cool Ard !

---------- Post added at 03:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:12 PM ----------

sometimes I use a snake
my snake roll sucks , need to work on that .............
 

Lewis Chessman

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Yes, eastfly66, I often see my over-energetic guests second-sweeping so briskly on a double Spey that they lift the anchor and send the D loop flying behind them towards the long grass - and the fly inevitably follows ....

The secret is, I think, to keep a light tension on the rod from the moment you begin the lift, and then to lead the line to where you want it, maintaining that tension throughout. Any looseness or bobble in the line will take power from the cast as that slack is picked up, so making a cast as smooth and measured as possible usually produces a good result.
 

Ard

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I've never made a Snake Roll and don't think I can.

I just commented on the 'Do You Like Technical Casting Books' thread, I explained there that I found a book about Spey casting confusing and filled with things I don't seem to need. In real fishing situations I don't think I use more than 4 different casts and those 4 seem to get things done. I believe that all the fancy casts and all the litany associated with Spey casting serve to confuse those new to the casting style.

Did that sound negative? :eek:
 

Unknownflyman

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Snake rolls are easy anyone can do them, it helps to have a good teacher for that or any of this I’m afraid.

Oh don’t get me wrong, I have bad moments on the river, my casting consistency is getting better.

My fish landing ratio is not. At least I got to see one of the chrome beasts this fall as it flew through the air cartwheeling forward and spit the tube fly back at me. :wavetowel


Well played fish, well played.


I’ve seen a number of great fish I’ve hooked since I started this, salmon, lake run browns, Steelhead that have escaped in many different ways.

I fear I now have some sort of fish landing phobia, my friend sent some nice pics of steelhead he caught over the last week on my flies I tied for him. And I taught him how to cast two weeks ago and he landed a Steelhead two hours later on a tube I tied.

Ironic? I digress.

Good luck Larry!
 

eastfly66

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Did that sound negative?
Naww, not to me anyway. Sounds practical I think but I do think I'm cool when I make a nice cast or learn a new fancy one :) ....would be nice if the steelhead appreciated it too :)

---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------

Yes, eastfly66
Hey Lewis , my name is Paul if you like :)
 

Ard

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The secret is that his name isn't really Lewis :D

I'm happy if I can say things without being taken as providing a negative view, I refrained from participating in the Spey discussions for a while due to opening my mouth simply to change feet.

About those fish coming undone Steve, a fellow must look past these things. I made an entry on the blog here that began by saying that this was perhaps the worst fishing season I've experienced ever since I was just a little kid using a hand line, things can't always be perfect I guess.

I've had my share of fish come loose, when you are in the midst of a very poor year it becomes even more oppressing but I manage to look ahead with an optimistic view. Today would be a great day for me to be down fishing for them but I sit here waiting for a call from the vet........... It seems that my boy Boss was developing a bad tooth and he is currently under anesthesia while the offending molar (I think dogs have molars) is being removed and the rest cleaned. I'm hoping he'll bounce back by Tuesday so we can make a trip south. These are challenging because I use a Mokai for late season fishing. Taking him with really slows down the upriver trip so he must wait in the truck. Then there's the covert trip into the hotel room...... I get a really good off peak season rate on a nice room at 67.00 / night but they frown on pets. No doubt there have been poopers and chewers in the mix who nixed it for Boss but we have been successfully circumventing the rules for years and so will run the sneak again soon :shocking: The area I fish for steelhead is 260 miles away so day trips don't work........
 

huronfly

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You never mentioned your setup mcnerney... Depending on your line a single spey might be the easiest fix for that problem. When I have super fast current at my feet I normally single spey, I even do it frequently with Skagit setups and sinktips. It doesn't look as pretty but at least I don't have to worry about my d-loop and fly coming around into my body.

Oh and snakerolls are super fun and easy... One of my favourite and most powerful casts.;)

Funny you guys mention losing so many fish as this has been a huge problem for me the last few weeks! I am 0 for 7 now and it's definitely taking its toll on me mentally... I told my wife I was considering giving up for the season! lol. But we both know that will never happen, I just need some restored hope... but that's steelheading I guess... makes you crazy!!!:faint:
 

Ard

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My name isn't really Ard, it's Hardyreels and yes I am hiding from the mob. Actually just a couple guys who took my posts the wrong way :D
 
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