99 Problems and my cast is 1

LimerickShaw

Well-known member
Messages
338
Reaction score
41
Location
Maine
Hi all,

For these first two years my cast and I have NOT gotten along well. As I was out yesterday I was just trying different things and noticed something that helped me improve my casting but I don't think it's a desirable way to cast.

So, what I've always found is that my loops/casts simply aren't coming out straight. Accuracy lacks but also the simple unrolling of the line is far from what I want.

Normally, I have some line in my left hand and then my right hand simply on the cork. What I start to find was that if I held my first two fingers on my right hand against the line it worked MUCH better. I was able to be more accurate and the line unrolled much better than what was before.

Now I don't think this is ideal way of casting but I could really "feel" things a little better but I would imagine having essentially two hands on the line coming into play likely could introduce some issues. So, how can I fix this?

My cast has grown increasingly more frustrating and it was nice to have some "workaround" yesterday after finding about simply applying some pressure on my rod hand on the line. It's almost like I can't get the rod to really load without it.

When not doing that I find it very difficult to cast more than 10-15 feet and I just don't get a feeling. I'm really not sure how to explain it - it's difficult.

Unfortunately, I don't have video because I was on the water yesterday by myself quarantining. Hopefully what I'm explaining makes enough sense and you guys can give me some input. If not - I can try to clarify/explain more.
 

jdwy

Well-known member
Messages
702
Reaction score
4
Location
Cody, WY
You might want to go through the many "How to flycast" videos on YouTube until you come to the ones where the instructor explains in depth how and why you have to slowly accelerate, then make the sudden stop on both the foreward and backcast in order to get any power from the rod. The instructor that describes the sudden stop like flicking paint from a paintbrush is a good one, but I can't remember his name.
 

LimerickShaw

Well-known member
Messages
338
Reaction score
41
Location
Maine
You might want to go through the many "How to flycast" videos on YouTube until you come to the ones where the instructor explains in depth how and why you have to slowly accelerate, then make the sudden stop on both the foreward and backcast in order to get any power from the rod. The instructor that describes the sudden stop like flicking paint from a paintbrush is a good one, but I can't remember his name.
I do try to envision/do this while casting. Sometimes I feel I break my wrist and it ends up sending too much vibration which messes up my cast. I feel like (maybe) part of my issue is whatever I'm doing with my offhand because shooting line is very difficult for me. Maybe part of that is due to my casting but I'm really at a loss.
 

ibookje

Well-known member
Messages
290
Reaction score
1
Go get in touch with a casting instructor (maybe wait until the virus is gone) rather than watching 10 different casting ‘instruction’ videos
 

silver creek

Well-known member
Messages
7,023
Reaction score
337
Location
Rothschld, Wisconsin
Hi all,

For these first two years my cast and I have NOT gotten along well. As I was out yesterday I was just trying different things and noticed something that helped me improve my casting but I don't think it's a desirable way to cast.

So, what I've always found is that my loops/casts simply aren't coming out straight. Accuracy lacks but also the simple unrolling of the line is far from what I want.

Normally, I have some line in my left hand and then my right hand simply on the cork. What I start to find was that if I held my first two fingers on my right hand against the line it worked MUCH better. I was able to be more accurate and the line unrolled much better than what was before.

Now I don't think this is ideal way of casting but I could really "feel" things a little better but I would imagine having essentially two hands on the line coming into play likely could introduce some issues. So, how can I fix this?

My cast has grown increasingly more frustrating and it was nice to have some "workaround" yesterday after finding about simply applying some pressure on my rod hand on the line. It's almost like I can't get the rod to really load without it.

When not doing that I find it very difficult to cast more than 10-15 feet and I just don't get a feeling. I'm really not sure how to explain it - it's difficult.

Unfortunately, I don't have video because I was on the water yesterday by myself quarantining. Hopefully what I'm explaining makes enough sense and you guys can give me some input. If not - I can try to clarify/explain more.
A video of you casting is what is needed to see what is going on.

I don't think holding the line tightly in your non casting left hand is the problem.

I suspect that the problem is that the relationship between your left non casting hand AND your right casting hand (and therefore the fly rod) changes during the casting stroke so that SLACK line develops between your left hand and the rod. This line slack essentially works to SHORTEN your "effective" rod stoke. The slack has to be taken up before the rod tip can move the line that is being cast.

What sometimes happens with beginners is when they hold the line in their left non casting hand, they also TRY to maintain the same distance BETWEEN the left non casting hand AND their right casting hand. So when they move the right casting hand up and back to cast, the left hand moves across the front of the body and to the right side to maintain that distance. This forces the body to TWIST to the right instead of maintaining the forward position and this messes up the rod stroke because instead of the just the right casting arm and hand moving, the entire body is rotating and twisting.

Try this. Hold your line in your left hand and place your left hand by your left hip. HOLD it there during your cast. DO NOT MOVE YOUR LEFT HAND! You can let some line slip from your left hand if you are able to create extra power to extend the cast but otherwise keep the line fixed. See how that works.
 
Last edited:

ArcherA

Well-known member
Messages
62
Reaction score
7
Location
Texas
What sometimes happens with beginners is when they hold the line in their left non casting hand, they also TRY to maintain the same distance BETWEEN the eft non casting hand AND their right casting hand. So when they move the right casting hand up and back to cast, the left hand moves across the front of the body and to the right side to maintain that distance. This forces the body to TWIST to the right instead of maintaining the forward position and this messes up the rod stroke because instead of the just the right casting arm and hand moving, the entire body is rotating and twisting.

Try this. Hold your line in your left hand and place your left hand by your left hip. HOLD it there during your cast. DO NOT MOVE YOUR LEFT HAND! You can let some line slip from your left hand if you are able to create extra power to extend the cast but otherwise keep the line fixed. See how that works.
As a new caster, this has been one thing I have noticed most about myself. It's almost as if I would/will instinctively, at times, if not on my toes about it, allow my off hand holding the line to cast with the casting hand. Throwing the string. I have even thrown it over the top of the rod :) Might sound weird, but it was what it was. I now pay more conscious attention, and a conscious exercise you mention might help keep my off hand (in)action more ingrained.
 

osseous

Well-known member
Messages
1,386
Reaction score
89
Direction control and turnover relate more to your back cast than you realize. The delivery MIRRORS your back cast to a great degree. Try this: let your back cast fall to the ground- and observe its shape. From the problems you described, I believe you will see a curve in your line lying there. In toward your body at the end of the line. First goal: straighten that back cast so the line falls arrow straight! Your other problems will correct themself if you do this co consistently.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

Bigfly

Well-known member
Messages
2,895
Reaction score
94
Location
Truckee, CA.
Mr. Shaw, good discovery.
I require my students to get rid of the left hand. It will come in handy later, but at first it's a hazard more than a help.
You can feel the rod better in the backcast. There is no timing issue between the two hands, it is more repeatedly accurate, and more power is unleashed in a one handed style. The sweepset is more positive as well.
When I use a one handed approach I can take my finger off the line on the forecast and shoot almost as much as I can shoot almost as much with my two handed approach.
Learn without the left hand......
Select a hat or bowl for a target, 20 ft away. Lock off the line on the corks, and hit the target. Perfect it before moving. 10 out of 10 tries let's you graduate to 22ft......keep at it.
But don't just cast.......pick a target and execute. Forget distance, forget "THE HAUL".....Get accurate first.

Jim
 
Last edited:

fishing hobo

Well-known member
Messages
304
Reaction score
6
Go onto FFI website, go to casting and start with pickup and laydown casting PULD. You should be trapping the line with the finger(s) against the grip. I suspect that isn't the only problem in your cast though.
 

rangerrich99

Well-known member
Messages
1,485
Reaction score
53
Location
Anthem, AZ
My father had me take golf lessons when I was a kid, and for 5-6 years every summer I'd go back and take some lessons for a few weeks from the same guy. So through high school I had a pretty good fundamentally sound swing. But sometime around my Junior year in HS I quit taking those lessons. I still played, I just didn't see the point in taking lessons to fix something that wasn't broken.

Fast forward to fifteen years ago. I was having various troubles with my distance and "straightness" so I decided to take some lessons. By that time they were video-taping your lessons and had all kinds of computer programs to analyze every little thing about your swing. Well, imagine my surprise when I watched that first couple videos and found that my swing had degenerated to the point of being unrecognizable. The ball was way too forward, my hands were reverse cocked at address, my back swing was a mess, etc. Now all of those problems happened over decades, a little at a time, and I had absolutely no idea any of it was happening as it happened. Thankfully, with the help of that instructor, all it took was four lessons to get my original swing back.

My point here is that you need to have another qualified person, such as an experienced well-reviewed instructor, watch you cast. Preferably with a video, so that you can see for yourself what's going on with your cast. Of course, you might have to see a couple three different instructors before you find one that you like. Or you might get lucky like I did and find a good one right off the bat.

But once you do find him/her, your casting problems will go away. And then every couple years, or even every year, go back and get a 'touch-up' lesson.

Best of luck.
 

Bigfly

Well-known member
Messages
2,895
Reaction score
94
Location
Truckee, CA.
Ranger has a point...
If this your second season and you are still struggling with your cast, you need help.
You are in Maine for gods sake...!
There is at least one guy there who can coach you!!!
If you were here, I would have squared you away last year....hell, one afternoon.
Follow my prescription on targeting accuracy, or get a coach.
But stop flailing, you are only practicing bad habits. That is not good and will haunt you later.

Jim
 

irideaduck

Well-known member
Messages
68
Reaction score
1
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Normally, I have some line in my left hand and then my right hand simply on the cork. What I start to find was that if I held my first two fingers on my right hand against the line it worked MUCH better. I was able to be more accurate and the line unrolled much better than what was before.

Now I don't think this is ideal way of casting but I could really "feel" things a little better but I would imagine having essentially two hands on the line coming into play likely could introduce some issues. So, how can I fix this?.
Last summer I took a one-on-one class with a FFI Certified Casting Instructor, he wanted me to lock the line down with my casting hand "fingers on my right hand against the line," otherwise he said you are essentially performing a poor double haul as you pull line and let line go through the guides as you cast.

A few hours of instruction was well worth the money that I spent.
 

fishing hobo

Well-known member
Messages
304
Reaction score
6
Last summer I took a one-on-one class with a FFI Certified Casting Instructor, he wanted me to lock the line down with my casting hand "fingers on my right hand against the line," otherwise he said you are essentially performing a poor double haul as you pull line and let line go through the guides as you cast.

A few hours of instruction was well worth the money that I spent.
What then happens is you introduce slack line and the cast falls apart.
 

LimerickShaw

Well-known member
Messages
338
Reaction score
41
Location
Maine
Hi Limerick!

Without seeing you cast I'm afraid I won't be much help.

Why not give a look at these Orvis fly casting instructional videos. Plenty there to choose from, also a good video from Joan Wulff.

orvis fly casting videos - Yahoo Video Search Results

Good Luck!

Denny
This video was super helpful. I went back to the river yesterday and felt much better. I still have some significant improvements to make when using my left hand on the cast but two pointers that seemed to help a lot that Joan gave was don't "snap" on your cast until your leader is about to be lifted off of the water and when using your left hand pick it directly up so it's almost a window to look through between your rod hand and off hand.

Definitely need to keep practicing but those two tips in that video went a long way for me. Hopefully this virus stuff chills out a bit and maybe I can get some lessons.
 

dennyk

Well-known member
Messages
2,536
Reaction score
148
Location
Hudsonville, Michigan
This video was super helpful. I went back to the river yesterday and felt much better. I still have some significant improvements to make when using my left hand on the cast but two pointers that seemed to help a lot that Joan gave was don't "snap" on your cast until your leader is about to be lifted off of the water and when using your left hand pick it directly up so it's almost a window to look through between your rod hand and off hand.

Definitely need to keep practicing but those two tips in that video went a long way for me. Hopefully this virus stuff chills out a bit and maybe I can get some lessons.
I know you've probably already have done this Linerick, videos such as Joan's don't just get watched, they need to be studied.

Good Luck! Things will continue to improve!

Denny
 

Bigfly

Well-known member
Messages
2,895
Reaction score
94
Location
Truckee, CA.
I have studied Joan's cast on film, and in person. Sweet cast....
Perfect posture and technique.
Near no effort when applying power.
Doesn't have to make a face, or gnash her teeth...
I call it hammering a nail....softly.
Try holding/hammering a 16p nail at eye level.
Do you wiggle just your wrist? Do you only use your forearm? No! Your elbow goes up and down, the rod/hammer goes back and forth, on the same path, and stops at the nail....and at two oclock on the back swing. Sharp stops at the same place in space are key.
A soft stop prevents you from feeling the "tug" when the line straightens out behind you. A free drifting left hand can also preclude your ability to feel the tug as well. Lock off the line on the corks to feel more of the physics going on.
Joan isn't as strong as a guy, but she stores a large amount of energy in her rod, and dissipates very little until she releases her front cast.
Beginners store very little power, and therefore think they have to muscle it to get even a weak cast off. Many struggling casters have a baseball throw. Lots of movement, a big wind-up, and arm extension. Reaching
, and dropping your tip instead of a stop, are classic beginner no nos.
No power stored at all , compared to motion range.
Watch how little she moves, how quiet her body is, and notice how much she gets out of the small movement of her hand. Compact, and powerful...she is my blueprint, and that's what I teach.
No reaching out with the arm....
Drop that elbow hard, and stop crisply.
Only one hand at first.....aim for a target....
Never forget, there are no fish in the air..cast at the target not just wave the line around. As somebody said...pupd.
Pick it up, put it down. (Remember to practice on both sides of your body...
Easy peasy....

Jim
 
Last edited:

Unknownflyman

Well-known member
Messages
2,978
Reaction score
172
Location
L'Étoile du Nord
Mr. Limerick,

I dont really have any advise for you as I`d have to see the cast, no slack in the line please, other than that maybe just try a simple pickup into back cast and forward cast. The backcast goes back and up at an angle not too severe and not straight back.


Try just one cast at a time- pick it up, lay it down, get some line out there.

Other than that I`m glad you are sticking with it and working hard, one day it will click and you will see massive improvement and tight loops.

Stay well
 
Top