A Poll Regarding Posting Content

Allow topics like The Clean Water Act & Public Access to rivers & Creeks or not?


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Ard

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The thread is closed to comment but the poll is live and open.

This is a private poll, the results cannot be viewed regarding How you Vote.

The poll will last 5 days, each member has one vote.

Please read below carefully:

The administration of this forum is being pulled in two directions regarding discussions conducted in our 'Lodge Den' sub forum threads and in our 'news & Articles for Discussion' threads.

Here's the problem in brief; we have valued members who would like to see topics that deal with environmental concerns discussed or at least posted to bring issues to the attention of the fly fishermen. The simple truth is that we need good management of our resources if the fish are to thrive as well as the sport. Fishing may be affected by any changes in the way our Nations natural resources are managed. This would hold true regardless of said changes having either a positive or negative effect regarding water quality or availability of public access.

We also have members make it clear that they feel such topics contain distinct political undertones and those valued members oppose environmental topics being allowed to run here. Opinions voiced thus far say that such topics are divisive and represent an agenda beyond the scope of fishing or water quality.

We are in fact a fly fishing discussion forum and not a place for political arguments. However, that statement takes as a given, that we currently have access to not only places to fly fish, but that those places are protected to some degree by environmental laws and regulations.

What I am asking is:

Do you favor thread topics to be posted in the aforementioned sub forum categories which would address current and future Clean Water and Fishing Access topics, or not.

This is an issue that will not go away, the question posed is simple to answer, yes or no.

The results of the polling will be honored.

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------



Please do not fill this thread with comments. They will be deleted as fast as they are found.

This is not a discussion, we've had those. This is the poll to set Your policy not mine.

If the pool needs 'bumped to bring it up on current search results, management will bump the thread.


thank You for your cooperation :)
 
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GrtLksMarlin

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Please Do Post Comments To This Thread,
Okay, just my two cents worth... I sincerely believe as responsible adults (why is everyone pointing at me and laughing?), we can have such discussions here if we utilize the same decorum and respect that we give to those who we are having discussions with in person (and who can punch our lights out).

It's easy enough to say "this law is being proposed" or "that elimination of a rule" or "the other is being threatened" without pointing fingers, fighting tooth and nail to prove our points, calling names and so on. Yes, it is no surprise that everyone knows "who" in the regard that it is in the news, often in the story... Even then there is no need to harp on this side or that, lay blame and so on. More so, there is no need to get hostile toward one another as though just because they may disagree with your viewpoint, perhaps they may even be wrong... Yet it is not our job to point out how everyone except ourselves are idiots. Let their own banter prove that, just stick to discussing the issue.

In any case, many of the issues at hand if they had been brought up 4/10/20/40 years ago we would say the same things about as we are now (as in our stand on the issue, so who generates it inconsequential). Many of these issues more importantly cannot be rolled back if after the fact folks say "whoops! Well that didn't work out."

So "sides" has nothing to do with our viewpoints on ecological and conservation issues. So I believe if we stick to the issue at hand, answer questions yet refrain from arguing against every opposing view, and remember that someone's opposing viewpoint is not about "you" but the "issue," Then barring occasional hiccups, we should be fine.

Maybe...


B.E.F.
 

FlymanSJB

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It is going to get hostile and feelings are going to get hurt. Blame is going to be assigned to the people that wrote these bills and the bad actors, the science deniers. The corporate shills.

What does silence get us?
 

GrtLksMarlin

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It is going to get hostile and feelings are going to get hurt. Blame is going to be assigned to the people that wrote these bills and the bad actors, the science deniers. The corporate shills.

What does silence get us?
Whether the proverb is one truly used by the Japanese (from the movie Rising Sun), it never the less is one worth considering:

"The Japanese have a saying, 'Fix the problem, not the blame.' Find out what's [messed] up and fix it. Nobody gets blamed. We're always after who [messed] up. Their way is better."

B.E.F.
 

ia_trouter

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I could be wrong but pretty sure that was a typo guys. I believe he desires the poll thread to stay clear of debate. We have some conversation going on in another thread. Not that he necessarily intended it there either, but it happened.
 

FlymanSJB

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I read Ard's post as DO. If we can't even have a discussion about impending discussion? What is the point?

Personally I've never wrote so many Legislators and signed so many petitions in my life.

Did anyone see the FB post where all the major fly industry companies banded together to fight on the same side for the things we hold most dear?

I've said I'd work with anyone regardless of political party, race, creed, sex, religion for wild places, clean water and environment.

Can personal blame be left behind? Yes and it must towards our fellow fly fishermen.

one large farmer, told me that myself and the organizations I belong to care far more about trout than his lively hood. He's not going to be told what to do!

Others care and go above and beyond, but it only takes one DB to ruin a large section of river.

Clean water, land, good farming practices, and requiring accountability and stewardship of industry and the big one public lands... very important to me hopefully to US. now is the time, don't wait, cry in your beer later and talk of the good old days.

I think we have a lot in common, and we need find solutions.
 

ia_trouter

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I've been wrong before Steve. That is indeed what the text says. I didn't think he wanted a potential verbal brawl directly attached to the vote thread. It seems like a risky proposition. I'll wait for clarification.
 

FlymanSJB

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Well, if I'm in the wrong, I'm quite sure they can make this thread or my posts, go away.

Personally I think we can keep things positive, and as the
NAFFF we could good do something positive and make a difference as a group.
 

el jefe

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Well, if I'm in the wrong, I'm quite sure they can make this thread or my posts, go away.

Personally I think we can keep things positive, and as the
NAFFF we could good do something positive and make a difference as a group.
Don't assume we are all in the same group, just because we are all in the NAFFF. That said, I welcome the spirited debate and adversarial viewpoints. I learn more by (1) listening to others, and (2) doing the research and building the case to support my own views. Often the ideas discussed here prompt me to go learn more about those ideas and issues. I have no hesitation in pointing out where I think others' arguments are wrong, and I don't mind it when people do the same to me. I only ask that folks not call me a moron, unless I'm being a moron.:D
 

FlymanSJB

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I don't assume anything, those of us that can find common ground will, some never will.

Why does the forum exist? To sell stuff? Share information? To self promote? To pass on a tradition?

Many here pass on fairness and ethics, conservation, catch and release a duty of stewardship and a sense of responsibility to something much larger than themselves.



And Preservation.

I think there is something more here than simply the gear page.

You've all taught me great things, and I've passed them on, except the secret stuff, That spirit spreads whether you think it does or not.

A positive vibe, fairness and rules, selflessness, its in your stories, and your compassion.
 

ia_trouter

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...I think there is something more here than simply the gear page.....
I hacked out a piece of a very good post Steve. This is all some desire to read here. Sage X vs Asquith vs Radian threads..... I have no problem with that facet of the forum but I too hope for more from the largest FF forum on the planet. But it can't happen if we aren't CONSISTENTLY civil enough to self police and get past the "one line kill shot punch in the face" posts. They allowed a 100 post thread and we couldn't pull it off.

Until both sides find some ability to actually read an opposing view and acknowledge the other side has some legitimate concerns, we have nothing constructive to discuss. That's not how our last thread went down. Most everyone dug in their heels and conceded nothing, and occasionally a punch thrown toward a politician, party or industry. So little point of further discussion IMO. As of now Ard's solution seems like the correct one.
 
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Ard

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I've been away hauling fuel to the cabin, it was a typo and I attribute that to my being in a hurry to get on the trail a few days back.

I'll figure out how a sub forum can run without too many problems. This may take some time and I just came home half an hour ago.
 
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