Advice about casting a 0.9 gram trout streamer with a 12 gram / 185 grain 6.2 meter scandi shooting head

Azkaban

New member
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Hi,
I am considering using zonker streamers of about [all included] 0.9 grams (= 13.9 grains) on single hooks size 6 to try on my new 9' 5/6wt rod with a 6.2 meter 185 grain scandi shooting head (3D: float, hover, sink3) + 5 feet of tippet, underhand style (lack of room for a proper overhead backcast).
I am still a beginner at fly fishing, especially underhand style; do you think those streamers would be too heavy to cast on my equipment or can I safely try?
How heavy do you think I can go as far as flies?
Thanks a lot in advance for your answers
 

MichaelCPA

Well-known member
Messages
445
Reaction score
182
Location
Ontario
Try it! Correct to use an underhand cast, keep the line under tension and it should carry the fly. It might not be pretty or land delicately, but it will fish.
 

pnc

Well-known member
Messages
1,865
Reaction score
311
Location
Hudson, Florida
Definitely give it a try. If someone chimes in that's done the same. It doesn't matter if it's worked or not. Differences in casting stroke will have a great influence in results.
 

flav

Well-known member
Messages
1,317
Reaction score
638
Location
oregon
First off where did you find a 20 foot scandi, and in a 3D version, that's a nice head length for a 9 foot rod?

A scandi really isn't made for casting heavy flies, but with practice you can cast some mid sized stuff pretty easily. Personally I'd stay away from zonkers, rabbit hair holds water and is very heavy to cast. I'd start out with lighter flies, or at least ones that don't soak up a lot of water. Your line is a sink tip, you don't need a heavy fly to get down. Of course you can certainly try casting your flies with that setup, but don't be too disappointed if it doesn't work well.

I'm curious what you mean by underhand casting. Usually underhand casting with a scandi is done with a two hander, using a lot of bottom (under) hand on touch and go casts. On a single hander you use a haul where you'd normally use your bottom hand to get similar results. I've just never heard casting a single hander this way referred to as underhand casting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LOC

LOC

Well-known member
Messages
1,492
Reaction score
1,387
Location
S. CA
I'm curious what you mean by underhand casting. Usually underhand casting with a scandi is done with a two hander, using a lot of bottom (under) hand on touch and go casts. On a single hander you use a haul where you'd normally use your bottom hand to get similar results. I've just never heard casting a single hander this way referred to as underhand casting.
I’ve heard it described this way before.
I believe Klaus Frimor refers to it this way. I also have heard it described as tip casting when using a single hand in a under hand style.
 

MichaelCPA

Well-known member
Messages
445
Reaction score
182
Location
Ontario
....the scandi cast, or simply a single spey. The shorter heads lend to a bottom hand only cast. Hence underhand. Works very well for SH without backcast room also.
 

COTater

Well-known member
Messages
812
Reaction score
922
Location
Grand Junction, CO
I'm gonna do some single hand spey this winter on my 7 weight Scott Sector. Have a guide buddy that is a long time spey caster and he recommended it. Shooting line & shooting head.

Doing some deep run dredging for the big Dawgs and see what I think. I'm looking forward to trying something a bit different, should be fun.

Got some Guideline brand out of Sweden, cheap shipping and here in 3 days. Pic attached of what I'll be using to start.
 

Attachments

Azkaban

New member
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Hi,

Sorry for the late reply and thanks for your input.
I'll be using the exact type of head described above: Guideline ULS (Ultra Light Spey) 3D+, float/hover/sink 3 and 12 grams in my case. Running line is OPST Lazar 35lb with perfection loop. The rod is a Guideline Elevation 9' #5 (lines 11 grams to 13 grams) [it doesn't seem like a true 5wt with that type of head weight range...]. I haven't used it yet, hence the questions.
As for the expression "underhand casting", it might not be accurate, my bad. It is usually referred to as "Scandi head spey casting with a single hand rod" - and it is correct that the hand not holding the rod pulls the running line on the forward stroke (you can actually do a double haul combination) to imitate the movement of the hand pulling the bottom part of the handle on a double hand "spey" or switch rod) and increase traction/load.
As shown here: "Underhand" Scandi technique applied to single hand rods
I suppose I could use the 14 grams head if only "spey" casting, but I'd like to be able to do some overhead casts as well, just in case...
As for the flies, I'll go smaller and go for some different material as advised. I don't want to lose control and end up banging the rod blank and braking it with the fly.
I've found a very interesting video here:
https://youtu.be/1ovxdURdcP8
It should do the trick on a size 8 to 6 hook.
 

karlsson

Member
Messages
24
Reaction score
22
Hi,

Sorry for the late reply and thanks for your input.
I'll be using the exact type of head described above: Guideline ULS (Ultra Light Spey) 3D+, float/hover/sink 3 and 12 grams in my case. Running line is OPST Lazar 35lb with perfection loop. The rod is a Guideline Elevation 9' #5 (lines 11 grams to 13 grams) [it doesn't seem like a true 5wt with that type of head weight range...]. I haven't used it yet, hence the questions.
As for the expression "underhand casting", it might not be accurate, my bad. It is usually referred to as "Scandi head spey casting with a single hand rod" - and it is correct that the hand not holding the rod pulls the running line on the forward stroke (you can actually do a double haul combination) to imitate the movement of the hand pulling the bottom part of the handle on a double hand "spey" or switch rod) and increase traction/load.
As shown here: "Underhand" Scandi technique applied to single hand rods
I suppose I could use the 14 grams head if only "spey" casting, but I'd like to be able to do some overhead casts as well, just in case...
As for the flies, I'll go smaller and go for some different material as advised. I don't want to lose control and end up banging the rod blank and braking it with the fly.
I've found a very interesting video here:
https://youtu.be/1ovxdURdcP8
It should do the trick on a size 8 to 6 hook.
Hi Azkaban

It should work fine, a friend of mine was involved in the design of them, when he was with Guideline. They carry bigger streamers well in smaller rivers.
And that rod throws a normal 5 weight line fine, shootingheads are usually cut from heavier lines, so you have less out, 11 to 13 grams is basicly 30 feet of a 7 or 8 weight line true to AFFTA. Belly weight of most normal headlength (40-45 feet) 5 weights true to AFFTA are more than that. Your rod will even handle the 14 gram versions overhead, they might have a tendency to kick though, so be prepared to drift alot, or dial back on the power.

It's just singlehanded speycasting, underhand and all that is purely marketing.

Cheers
Lasse from Scandiland
 

Azkaban

New member
Messages
3
Reaction score
1
Location
Europe
Hi Azkaban

It should work fine, a friend of mine was involved in the design of them, when he was with Guideline. They carry bigger streamers well in smaller rivers.
And that rod throws a normal 5 weight line fine, shootingheads are usually cut from heavier lines, so you have less out, 11 to 13 grams is basicly 30 feet of a 7 or 8 weight line true to AFFTA. Belly weight of most normal headlength (40-45 feet) 5 weights true to AFFTA are more than that. Your rod will even handle the 14 gram versions overhead, they might have a tendency to kick though, so be prepared to drift alot, or dial back on the power.

It's just singlehanded speycasting, underhand and all that is purely marketing.

Cheers
Lasse from Scandiland
Hi Lasse,
Thanks a lot for all the information.
I've downsized the fly to a size 6 Ahrex NS 122 Light Stinger hook and a transparent plastic head (Fish-Mask), and used composite material for the body; it works like a charm - when I manage to get the cast right ;) - on a 5 foot fluoro leader. No need for the weighted head , the S3 tip brings the fly to the right depth in my neck of the woods.
Now, this single handed speycasting can be quite tricky to perform. Definitely not as easy as it seems in the vids; you really must get every step right and smoothly too. But when you get it right it flies :) I'll need a lot of practice for sure, but it's well worth the effort as I'll be able to fish lots of new stretches of water where an overhead cast would be near to impossible.
Maybe a difference between traditional single handed speycasting and "underhand" or modern single handed spey is the use of a shorter head and the emphasis on anchoring the leader to the surface rather than the line itself?
The limitation - for me - seems to be when using dry flies: I end up sinking them as they are dragged backwards during the cast...
 
Top