Beginner looking for some help

NJfishkeeper

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Hello everyone,

I just recently got hooked on fly fishing toward the end of October last year and only went two times with my own set up. I have a 10ft 4 weight Orvis recon with a Orvis hydros 2 reel. I also just set up a Garcia Conolon 8 ft 6 wt fiber glass rod that ive had for years and will use come warm weather for bass and pickerel. the line and backing was installed by Orvis when I picked the reels up. I was just looking for some advice from you guys regarding different fishing methods, how and when to know if im using the correct leaders and tippets, and honestly how to fight a fish if I ever do manage to hook up. My friend that actually got me hooked on Fly fishing is strictly a nymph fisher with a strike indicator. so that is the only method I used when ive been by my self. I think ive got casting down pat pretty well for nymphing, but im a believer in there's always room for improvement. So if any one has any personal tips they feel comfortable sharing, or any sources/links they strictly trust for info, that would be greatly appreciated. I really want to get confident enough to say I can fly fishing and catch fish by the end of this year, and I know it come with practice which I know ill get come this year.
 

jayr

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First off, what is your target species? Second would be, where are you fishing? You don't need to necessarily name the stream, just describe them. Lakes, steams, etc. and include size of each. This will help narrow down the suggestions that will better suit your fishing tactics.

Also, what size fish are you going after? And what type of fly do you wish to know more about? Streamers, dry, dry/dropper, etc.
 

spm

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Welcome to the forum. Plenty of knowledgeable people here, willing to help. Don't be shy about asking questions. Everyone was a beginner once.

The first thing I would suggest is taking lessons. Most fly shops offer them free. Being near your locale, they will be your best resource. Make friends with them.

Good luck and keep us informed on your progress.
steve
 

NJfishkeeper

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First off, what is your target species? Second would be, where are you fishing? You don't need to necessarily name the stream, just describe them. Lakes, steams, etc. and include size of each. This will help narrow down the suggestions that will better suit your fishing tactics.

Also, what size fish are you going after? And what type of fly do you wish to know more about? Streamers, dry, dry/dropper, etc.
mainly id be targeting trout but come summer id like to try bass and pickerel on my 6 weight. I fish the pequest alot and have tried different sections of the musky. and in terms of size, id be happy with a little dinky trout all the way up to a trophy lol (dont we all). id love to get good with dry flies as everyone is saying that is the most fun. i know how to set up a nymph rig with two flies and a strik indicator, but thats as far as my knowledge goes.
 

NJfishkeeper

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Welcome to the forum. Plenty of knowledgeable people here, willing to help. Don't be shy about asking questions. Everyone was a beginner once.

The first thing I would suggest is taking lessons. Most fly shops offer them free. Being near your locale, they will be your best resource. Make friends with them.

Good luck and keep us informed on your progress.
steve
yeah the gentleman that set up my first fly rod was super knowledgeable when it came to me asking him questions and will actually stay after hours and just chit chat with me about different fly tactics and share stories. I always make it a point to go back and see him and yeah that is a good idea, I'm gonna start looking for classes. I even booked a trip to the west branch of the Delaware for a long week end and got a guide for a full day so hopefully that will be a great day with a ton of knowledge.
 
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jayr

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What do you have available to you locally as in fly shops, Orvis stores, etc.? Those are really good places to start if both them and your area to fish are within the same area. A lot of places have free classes as well as just good information on what to use, how to rig it, etc.
 

dillon

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NJfishkeeper

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What do you have available to you locally as in fly shops, Orvis stores, etc.? Those are really good places to start if both them and your area to fish are within the same area. A lot of places have free classes as well as just good information on what to use, how to rig it, etc.
yes I have local Orvis shops and one mom and pop fly shop I still have yet to visit but I hear nothing but good things about.
 

silver creek

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Hello everyone,

I just recently got hooked on fly fishing toward the end of October last year and only went two times with my own set up. I have a 10ft 4 weight Orvis recon with a Orvis hydros 2 reel. I also just set up a Garcia Conolon 8 ft 6 wt fiber glass rod that ive had for years and will use come warm weather for bass and pickerel. the line and backing was installed by Orvis when I picked the reels up. I was just looking for some advice from you guys regarding different fishing methods, how and when to know if im using the correct leaders and tippets, and honestly how to fight a fish if I ever do manage to hook up.
Read my post on leaders and tippets for newbies. It is on this thread:


Read my post how to fight big fish. It is on this thread:

 

NJfishkeeper

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Read my post on leaders and tippets for newbies. It is on this thread:


Read my post how to fight big fish. It is on this thread:

[/QUOTE\]
awesome, I will check those out!
 

NJfishkeeper

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Read my post on leaders and tippets for newbies. It is on this thread:


Read my post how to fight big fish. It is on this thread:

so far i have just read your very well detailed tippet and leader thread. Just a few quick questions from what I have read.

"One does not choose the leader or tippet according the rod weight but according to the size, weight, and air resistance of the fly. We are choosing the leader and tippet according to how difficult the fly is to cast. The more difficult the fly is to cast, the stiffer, shorter, and thicker the leader and tippet. So match the leader to the fly and not the rod. "

that is quoted from you thread, so reading this i have a question regarding tippet rings. The guy i talked to at orvis, and a friend i fish with told me about tying tippet rings directly to my leader. if i under stand correctly, can i change my tippet that is tied to tippet ring that is tied to my leader to change the characteristics of the "leader" or do i actually have to change the leader itself and re-tie tippet rings and tippet? thanks for that very detailed information. it seriously simplified alot of questions i had or things i was lost on.
 

frickerdog

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Welcome from another New Jersey resident.

There are a few good fly shops that I can recommend depending on which part of the State you live in. If you are more central NJ, Tight Lines in Parsippany and Shannon's in Califon are both great for service. If you want help deciding on something as mundane as line choice, they will enthusiastically help you. Andrew at Tight Lines is a particularly good resource. If you are up north, Streams of Dreams in Saddle River is a nice little shop, but they don't carry a lot of gear in stock in the off-season. Also, if you are up north, don't discount Ramsey Outdoor (the Ramsey store, not the Succasunna store). Even though it is a more generalized outdoor store, they have some guys who work in the fly fishing section who really know their stuff, and they carry more stock than Streams of Dreams. It is a good place to buy standard quality flies as they always have a good variety of stock.
 

NJfishkeeper

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Welcome from another New Jersey resident.

There are a few good fly shops that I can recommend depending on which part of the State you live in. If you are more central NJ, Tight Lines in Parsippany and Shannon's in Califon are both great for service. If you want help deciding on something as mundane as line choice, they will enthusiastically help you. Andrew at Tight Lines is a particularly good resource. If you are up north, Streams of Dreams in Saddle River is a nice little shop, but they don't carry a lot of gear in stock in the off-season. Also, if you are up north, don't discount Ramsey Outdoor (the Ramsey store, not the Succasunna store). Even though it is a more generalized outdoor store, they have some guys who work in the fly fishing section who really know their stuff, and they carry more stock than Streams of Dreams. It is a good place to buy standard quality flies as they always have a good variety of stock.
Im more central jersey, Ive been trying to get to shannons in califon for a while now. and someone recommended me tight lines as well. I will have to check out the other shops though as well. do you know of any good spots to get some class room time in?
 

sasquatch7

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yes I have local Orvis shops and one mom and pop fly shop I still have yet to visit but I hear nothing but good things about.
The mom n pop shops are the ones that need the business most . Providing they have what you want or can get it and are friendly . Orvis , not so much . Thats where the high rollers hang out .
 

frickerdog

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Im more central jersey, Ive been trying to get to shannons in califon for a while now. and someone recommended me tight lines as well. I will have to check out the other shops though as well. do you know of any good spots to get some class room time in?
Unfortunately, I do not know of any classes. The fly shop guys all want to sell their guide services, so they are not really keen on free classes. I'd check the Central Jersey Trout Unlimited chapter. It appears that they are having a virtual meeting on March 9. https://www.cjtu.org/

If you've spent time on the Pequest and Musky as noted above, you've certainly gotten some casting practice on decent waterways. Once we got into June/July last summer, I moved away from the crowded, popular waterways and did a ton of casting practice on slower water that carried panfish. It's a lot of fun if you want to catch some fish while you practice hitting spots with different casting motions.

To clarify, I just returned to fly fishing after a long absence, so I am far from an expert.
 
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NJfishkeeper

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Unfortunately, I do not know of any classes. The fly shop guys all want to sell their guide services, so they are not really keen on free classes. I'd check the Central Jersey Trout Unlimited chapter. It appears that they are having a virtual meeting on March 9. https://www.cjtu.org/

If you've spent time on the Pequest and Musky as noted above, you've certainly gotten some casting practice on decent waterways. Once we got into June/July last summer, I moved away from the crowded, popular waterways and did a ton of casting practice on slower water that carried panfish. It's a lot of fun if you want to catch some fish while you practice hitting spots with different casting motions.

To clarify, I just returned to fly fishing after a long absence, so I am far from an expert.
Yeah I started back in october after the rush of summer anglers and actually met a really cool guy on the pequest and saw i was a newbie and helped out with some tips and even took the time to go through my fly box and help me identify what to use and stuff. i would like to hit some spot maybe this weekend or next just to practice casting some dry flies or even some different rigs since im only used to a nymph rig with a indicator.
 

NJfishkeeper

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The mom n pop shops are the ones that need the business most . Providing they have what you want or can get it and are friendly . Orvis , not so much . Thats where the high rollers hang out .
im 100% all for mom and pop business, my family has owned a butcher shop for over 85 years which closed down sadly 5 years ago. i just got started at orvis to get my rods and reels and will support small business for all my tackle and flies from now on.
 

silver creek

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so far i have just read your very well detailed tippet and leader thread. Just a few quick questions from what I have read.

"One does not choose the leader or tippet according the rod weight but according to the size, weight, and air resistance of the fly. We are choosing the leader and tippet according to how difficult the fly is to cast. The more difficult the fly is to cast, the stiffer, shorter, and thicker the leader and tippet. So match the leader to the fly and not the rod. "

that is quoted from you thread, so reading this i have a question regarding tippet rings. The guy i talked to at orvis, and a friend i fish with told me about tying tippet rings directly to my leader. if i under stand correctly, can i change my tippet that is tied to tippet ring that is tied to my leader to change the characteristics of the "leader" or do i actually have to change the leader itself and re-tie tippet rings and tippet? thanks for that very detailed information. it seriously simplified alot of questions i had or things i was lost on.
Well it gets more complicated if you are going to modify a leader.

In my post I noted that a standard commercial leader is most likely built on a 60/20/20 Ritz formula of 60 % butt, 20% transition, 20% tippet. This is the classic Charles Riz Tippet formula. Along with this formula is the understanding that the change in diameter from butt to transition to tippet MUST allow for the smooth transfer of the energy from one section to another. When a greater thicker segment of line that is thicker and of higher mass going a specific velocity becomes thinner, the law of the conservation of energy means that the thinner section MUST gain speed to preserve the kinetic energy. That is why the end of a bullwhip "cracks," That "crack" is the end of the bullwhip breaking the sound barrier.

This same conservation of energy MUST be maintained as the leader progressively thins.

So you can put a tippet ring at the end of the transition section BUT you are limited in the range of diameters of tippet that you can tie to this tippet ring. You should not step down any more than 1/3 the diameter of the section you are tying to. This was determined by Gary borger during his design of the Uni-body leader system.

For example, if the diameter of the transition section that tippet ring is tied to is .013", the thinnest tippet you should tie to the tippet ring is .009" diameter or 2X. If it the transition is .010", then you cannot go lower than .007" or 4X.

The way to figure out the minimum diameter is to double the diameter of the thicker section and divide by 3. So for the .010", 2 x .010 = .020: .020 /3 = .007 = 4X

So you must know the diameter of the transition section. And if need to step down in tippet size more than the 1/3 diameter restriction allows., tie in a 1 foot section of transition material with a lower diameter that allows you to tie in the thinner tippet.

You must also realize that tipper material and leader butt and transition material have different properties of stiffness that are designed for the job they do. You cannot simply use thicker tippet material for transition material.
 

LOC

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im 100% all for mom and pop business, my family has owned a butcher shop for over 85 years which closed down sadly 5 years ago. i just got started at orvis to get my rods and reels and will support small business for all my tackle and flies from now on.
I think this is a more complex issue then just saying support your local mom and pop.
On one hand I get it at the corporate level the dude sitting in the high chair is putting mom and pops out of business.
On the other hand I know guys at Orvis who know more about fly fishing then selling Barbour jackets that get a paycheck from Orvis. They are not going to get hired at a mom pop. It's a tough road to navigate. Good luck to all...
 

joelp

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learning to fish is like anything else. there is a sliding scale between time and money. if you have more money than time, hire guides and casting instructors. if you have more time than money, just go fishing and you'll figure it out eventually. the answer is somewhere in there depending on your situation. i only fished a size way too big royal coachman for a few years and caught a bunch of trout in streams. same thing with a small popper and caught lots of panfish and bass in ponds and on lakes. i was in high school and several hours after work every day all summer (more time than money). ive run into guys that started late and have gotten decent enough pretty quickly with paid instruction (more money than time).

the sweet spot is to find a friend/mentor and you can really cut down on both sides of that equation by showing up to fish on time, being cool, listening more than you talk, and maybe buying some beers and dinners but there's no real formula to that. spend as much time as you can at a fly shop when you can't be out fishing is your best bet in running into that guy. i have a couple buddies i've gotten into the sport and i get almost as much enjoyment out of watching them figure things out and have success as i do fishing myself these days.

the internet can teach you the basics of reading water, tackle set ups, where/when to go places, etc/etc/etc. Books can teach you a ton on tying and aquatic entomology. you need another human being to help if you wanna get on a faster track toward better casting. your brain lies to you and tells you that your timing is OK when it's way too fast and that you're not dropping your rod tip on the back cast when you're really dropping your rod tip and as a result are throwing your fly right into the weeds behind you.
 
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