Beginner looking for some help

NJfishkeeper

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Well it gets more complicated if you are going to modify a leader.

In my post I noted that a standard commercial leader is most likely built on a 60/20/20 Ritz formula of 60 % butt, 20% transition, 20% tippet. This is the classic Charles Riz Tippet formula. Along with this formula is the understanding that the change in diameter from butt to transition to tippet MUST allow for the smooth transfer of the energy from one section to another. When a greater thicker segment of line that is thicker and of higher mass going a specific velocity becomes thinner, the law of the conservation of energy means that the thinner section MUST gain speed to preserve the kinetic energy. That is why the end of a bullwhip "cracks," That "crack" is the end of the bullwhip breaking the sound barrier.

This same conservation of energy MUST be maintained as the leader progressively thins.

So you can put a tippet ring at the end of the transition section BUT you are limited in the range of diameters of tippet that you can tie to this tippet ring. You should not step down any more than 1/3 the diameter of the section you are tying to. This was determined by Gary borger during his design of the Uni-body leader system.

For example, if the diameter of the transition section that tippet ring is tied to is .013", the thinnest tippet you should tie to the tippet ring is .009" diameter or 2X. If it the transition is .010", then you cannot go lower than .007" or 4X.

The way to figure out the minimum diameter is to double the diameter of the thicker section and divide by 3. So for the .010", 2 x .010 = .020: .020 /3 = .007 = 4X

So you must know the diameter of the transition section. And if need to step down in tippet size more than the 1/3 diameter restriction allows., tie in a 1 foot section of transition material with a lower diameter that allows you to tie in the thinner tippet.

You must also realize that tipper material and leader butt and transition material have different properties of stiffness that are designed for the job they do. You cannot simply use thicker tippet material for transition material.
Silver, thank you very much, the way you break everything down is so simple for me, i just need to do my research now and see what diameter i am using for both leader and tippet, and ill go from there. thank you.
 

NJfishkeeper

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learning to fish is like anything else. there is a sliding scale between time and money. if you have more money than time, hire guides and casting instructors. if you have more time than money, just go fishing and you'll figure it out eventually. the answer is somewhere in there depending on your situation. i only fished a size way too big royal coachman for a few years and caught a bunch of trout in streams. same thing with a small popper and caught lots of panfish and bass in ponds and on lakes. i was in high school and several hours after work every day all summer (more time than money). ive run into guys that started late and have gotten decent enough pretty quickly with paid instruction (more money than time).

the sweet spot is to find a friend/mentor and you can really cut down on both sides of that equation by showing up to fish on time, being cool, listening more than you talk, and maybe buying some beers and dinners but there's no real formula to that. spend as much time as you can at a fly shop when you can't be out fishing is your best bet in running into that guy. i have a couple buddies i've gotten into the sport and i get almost as much enjoyment out of watching them figure things out and have success as i do fishing myself these days.

the internet can teach you the basics of reading water, tackle set ups, where/when to go places, etc/etc/etc. Books can teach you a ton on tying and aquatic entomology. you need another human being to help if you wanna get on a faster track toward better casting. your brain lies to you and tells you that your timing is OK when it's way too fast and that you're not dropping your rod tip on the back cast when you're really dropping your rod tip and as a result are throwing your fly right into the weeds behind you.
very well said, yeah its always funny how everyone's brain tricks them into thinking they know everything all the time, I have both time and money and enjoy learning on my own, im trying to just gather as much knowledge as I can behind a keyboard and try to put it all together out on the water. Fly fishing is something ive wanted to teach my self for a very long time now and im just happy i can start somewhere. hopefully one day i can confidently say i can catch anything on a fly rod.
 

NJfishkeeper

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You are very welcome.
so let me run this by you really quick to see if i truly understand. my 10 ft 4 wt rod has 9ft 5x leader material with a .006 tip. at the end of that leader i have a tippet rings as ive mentioned above, so as per the rule of 3 and 4's, ill divide my hook size by 4 (for example size 16-hook) i should be using 4x tippet material correct? or does the rule of 11 apply here as well? if im thinking of all this correct it doesnt.
 

silver creek

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so let me run this by you really quick to see if i truly understand. my 10 ft 4 wt rod has 9ft 5x leader material with a .006 tip. at the end of that leader i have a tippet rings as ive mentioned above, so as per the rule of 3 and 4's, ill divide my hook size by 4 (for example size 16-hook) i should be using 4x tippet material correct? or does the rule of 11 apply here as well? if im thinking of all this correct it doesnt.
You have written that the tippet ring is tied to the end of the 5X tippet. If that is what you have done, that is wrong. The tippet ring should be at the end of the transition section of the leader and the tippet.

You find where the tippet section begins. You can do this if you have a tippet gauge BUT they are either hard to find or no longer made. I use a Mike-Rite

If you don't have a tippet gauge, fold the tippet back along the leader and find the spot where the leader and tippet diameters start to match. That is the transition to tippet junction. That is where the tippet ring should be placed. The tippet ring is at the end of the transition section and the new tippet is tied to the tippet ring. The ring allows you to change tippets without further shortening the transition section with each tippet change.

As a beginner you should first try the 4X tippet because it will give you more control. If you can place the size 16 fly accurately, then you can use the rule of 3 and try the thinner 5X tippet with the size 16 fly.

If you need to cut off the 5X tippet and replace it with a 4X, you can save the 5X tippet in a small zip 4"x3" zip lock bag. You can get 100 of them at a Joannes or Hobby Lobby. Or use the package the leader was sold in.
 

NJfishkeeper

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You have written that the tippet ring is tied to the end of the 5X tippet. If that is what you have done, that is wrong. The tippet ring should be at the end of the transition section of the leader and the tippet.

You find where the tippet section begins. You can do this if you have a tippet gauge BUT they are either hard to find or no longer made. I use a Mike-Rite

If you don't have a tippet gauge, fold the tippet back along the leader and find the spot where the leader and tippet diameters start to match. That is the transition to tippet junction. That is where the tippet ring should be placed. The tippet ring is at the end of the transition section and the new tippet is tied to the tippet ring. The ring allows you to change tippets without further shortening the transition section with each tippet change.

As a beginner you should first try the 4X tippet because it will give you more control. If you can place the size 16 fly accurately, then you can use the rule of 3 and try the thinner 5X tippet with the size 16 fly.

If you need to cut off the 5X tippet and replace it with a 4X, you can save the 5X tippet in a small zip 4"x3" zip lock bag. You can get 100 of them at a Joannes or Hobby Lobby. Or use the package the leader was sold in.
okay so if im understanding correctly, bare with my explanation as i try to visualize this for yourself and I. I have Orvis floating fly line with the permanent loop fed through each eyelet on my rod, I now have orvis 9ft 5x knotless tapered leader in my hand and perform the loop to loop connection to the permanent loop of my fly line. After this is done I should not be tying the tippet ring right to the bottom of this 9 ft section of "leader", instead I should find where on this 9 ft section of 5x my 4x tippet material and leader material are the same diameter and snip the thinner diameter crap off and tie the tippet ring to that "transition section"?
 

silver creek

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okay so if im understanding correctly, bare with my explanation as i try to visualize this for yourself and I. I have Orvis floating fly line with the permanent loop fed through each eyelet on my rod, I now have orvis 9ft 5x knotless tapered leader in my hand and perform the loop to loop connection to the permanent loop of my fly line. After this is done I should not be tying the tippet ring right to the bottom of this 9 ft section of "leader", instead I should find where on this 9 ft section of 5x my 4x tippet material and leader material are the same diameter and snip the thinner diameter crap off and tie the tippet ring to that "transition section"?
I think you are trying to change a 5X leader to a 4X, correct?

So you have a 4 X leader. Find the spot in the leader that the 4X tippet starts. Cut the 4 X off. Tie in a tippet ring and tied the 5X tippet to the ring.
 

upstreamcast

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Awful lot of info to digest here. Fundamentals get you there. I go along with the recommendations of personal casting instruction. Fly Fishing is all about the cast. Lobbing nymph rigs will catch fish for sure. But, the essence of Fly Fishing is in the cast as in casting Dry Flies (or Streamers). Practice casting. Get lessons. Check out Mel Kreiger and Joan Wulff videos on casting. Ask about casting technique when talking with other Flyfishers. If you feel your casting technique is perfect skip this post.
JMHO.
 

NJfishkeeper

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Awful lot of info to digest here. Fundamentals get you there. I go along with the recommendations of personal casting instruction. Fly Fishing is all about the cast. Lobbing nymph rigs will catch fish for sure. But, the essence of Fly Fishing is in the cast as in casting Dry Flies (or Streamers). Practice casting. Get lessons. Check out Mel Kreiger and Joan Wulff videos on casting. Ask about casting technique when talking with other Flyfishers. If you feel your casting technique is perfect skip this post.
JMHO.
far from perfect in casting department. are there any tips you can give especially for casting streamers? not so much of how to cast it out but more so how to present it properly. the streamers are heavy enough that casting is a breeze. in terms of dry flies ive never casted them to know if i am casting them right or not.
 

silver creek

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far from perfect in casting department. are there any tips you can give especially for casting streamers? not so much of how to cast it out but more so how to present it properly. the streamers are heavy enough that casting is a breeze. in terms of dry flies ive never casted them to know if i am casting them right or not.
If the streamer is heavy or has metal eyes or a heavy bead, you can break your rod by hitting it with the streamer during the cast. The way to avoid hitting the rod is to learn the oval constant tension cast which is also known as the Belgian Cast.

Read my post on this thread:

https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/...riate-fly-size-4-wt.html?posted=1#post1505984

 
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