Can I use wf line with streamers for trout

GrtLksMarlin

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This is actually an important thread for me in that I am seriously needing a dedicated "streamer line" for fishing western rivers this summer in Idaho, Wyoming and Montana.

Blackbugger knowing exactly where I am going and what I am fishing for.....The river fairly fast, 2'-5' in the sections just above where the fish lie yet dropping down very deep very quickly in the holes where the fish are at.....So his advice considered heavily.

Here is the problem I have with floating line and the sink tip extentions over a dedicated sinking or sink tip line.

Your typical floating line for trout is actually often designed to have a long tapered down transition and often a level portion at the tip precisely for "presentation"....IOW, to give you the very best energy transfer from the line>leader>fly with the least amount of surface disturbance. Often looking like this:



When you add a heavy sinking tip section onto the front of it, the thinner tapered and level tip area of the fly line cannot turn over the sink tip, so, it tends to collapse the cast at the worst, and at the best hinge.

Now that would not be a problem if you went to say a "shooting head"....



Yet the trouble with those is the ability to roll cast, mend well, and naturally the whole reason you want to stick with a floating line that being presentation at other times.

Therefor though losing versatility, a typical F/S line (sink tip) still allows you that nice control and good casts, gets the line down though not quite as well as a dedicated sinking line.



What I have been considering using is a WF F/S 24' 250gr. 8"/sec. (almost a shooting head design) line the intention being 5" single hook streamers for deep Bull Trout in fast water with a 7wt. rod......AND I WOULD REALLY like some feedback on that, shown below.



It's a question I need to work out quickly myself......It would be great to have something that is as versitile as a floating line and a detachable sink-tip extension, yet to sacrifice castability for presentation when casting distance, sinking, and big fly capability is the primary use just seems to be a futile comprimise.

B.E.F.
 
B

blackbugger

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Looks perfect to me, I mean that's why they make those things, to throw small to large streamers and get them down.

The first time you get out there with something like that you'll notice a big difference in overall performance. It will seem heavy and unwieldy.
You won't be false casting five times before you launch but there's no real need to. Those sink tips shoot really well which is useful in tight quarters.
I'm not saying you can't false cast with them, you can, I do it all the time but timing is everything.

They don't come out of the water easily either at the end of your cast/stripping. You'll figure that out. I often pull in enough line (if I was really deep) to the point where I can pull the fly and 10-15 feet of tip out of the water and then flip it out in front of me to two or three rod lengths and then pick the whole thing up again and shoot it.

You'll develop techniques to deal with the sinking line and if you spend enough time with it, it will seem normal and fun. They are powerful tools and if you have enough room in your back cast you can really launch a big fly with them.

They are also great for streamer fishing for warm water species. I've caught walleyes out of the rivers in Minnesota and Wisconsin on my rig and also some big channel cats out of the upper Mississippi which is a blast. And of course it's ideal for subsurface smallies.

Fish one enough and it will make you look at the river differently.

I suppose the biggest drawback is that the larger rod and significantly heavier line will produce some fatigue over the course of the day.
I fish an 8wt with a sink tip more than anything else (I have three of them)
so I suppose I've built up some casting shape for the overall rig but I'll still get some fatigue in my right hand every now and then.
I'm sure that's par for the course for people who fish the salt a lot with even bigger rods.

For what you are planning on using your set up for, well, all you are doing is increasing the likelihood of getting into a big bull by a good deal.
 

booone0

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I post here rather than starting a new thread because it seems closely related.

For getting streamers down a little further (I'm thinking #8-12 clousers and wooly buggers) on a 5wt WF line for fishing warm water rivers.. I'm thinking of using a twisted 12# mono butt section to make a thick stout section, connecting to 24-36" of lead line, then connected to 12# mono of about 24-48" or more depending on the river. My goal is to get the flies a bit deeper without adding split shot.

I know it's probably not the optimal setup, but that's what I have available right now. I'll use this setup for getting deeper in rivers, and use a furled floating leader with straight 12 or 8# tippet for shallower streamers (ponds, shore etc).

Does this sound like it'll work, or will it be a massive failure/waste of time?
 
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blackbugger

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What you're looking for.
This is pretty typical of what you can find where you're going though there are certainly bigger ones around.

This fish is from a different river.
They are such cool looking, bad ass fish. They don't make blazing runs or anything but they dog pretty hard in the current.



My personal best caught on the spey rod.



---------- Post added at 10:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 AM ----------

I post here rather than starting a new thread because it seems closely related.

For getting streamers down a little further (I'm thinking #8-12 clousers and wooly buggers) on a 5wt WF line for fishing warm water rivers.. I'm thinking of using a twisted 12# mono butt section to make a thick stout section, connecting to 24-36" of lead line, then connected to 12# mono of about 24-48" or more depending on the river. My goal is to get the flies a bit deeper without adding split shot.

I know it's probably not the optimal setup, but that's what I have available right now. I'll use this setup for getting deeper in rivers, and use a furled floating leader with straight 12 or 8# tippet for shallower streamers (ponds, shore etc).

Does this sound like it'll work, or will it be a massive failure/waste of time?
I don't know why it wouldn't work unless the lead line is too heavy and you have some strange goings ons out there at the end of your line when you cast.

Before I started using tips I was big fan of the twist on lead, still am, rather than shot. It doesn't get caught in the rocks nearly as easily and I think it actually casts better.

This stuff;
Twistons

I was twisting on a couple of pieces, one about a foot above the fly and then another a foot or so above that. I would tie blood knots tapering the final lengths of tippet and twist the lead over them so it wouldn't slip.
It worked well and I liked it better than split shot.

Ard has a thread or description of a method that sounds similar to what you are trying to do. Maybe someone can link to it.
 

king joe

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Do I have to have a dedicated sink tip line or can I use a wf line.
Ok...so after reading all the good advice here...I am not sure anybody actually answered the trick question you posed. If so, and I missed this in somebody`s answer, I apologize for the redundancy.

What you are asking is actually 2 different things...related and not related at the same time (hence the my 'trick' question comment).

You can have WF...Weight Forward in both Floating and Sinking lines. WF basically means the bulk of the line weight is in the front few feet of the fly line...while the rest of the line...will be of a smaller and consistent diameter. This 'bulking forward' set up still would have a taper at the front for leaders...but the other end of the fly line in a WF system...would not have either the WF bulk OR the taper...but would be uniform 'running' line (going towards the backing/reel).

Conversely then, the other type of common line type you will see is DT...or Double Taper. In this, there is no bulking (NO WF)...but tapered ends at BOTH ends of the fly line. The fly line, all except the 2 ends....is uniform diameter. Effectively, you fish one end for some time...and when you have 'well used' that section, you flip it on your reel and you have a 'new' unfished section of line...effectively, DT is 2 lines in one. YOu CAN have also, DT floating OR sinking lines...OR variations of sinking.

Basically, WF line is to assist in casting by putting more line weight in a compact section....but maybe sacrificing overall use of your fly line like maybe you would with a standard DT line (basically 2 lines in one).


SO, you ask in your subject line..."can I use wf line with streamers for trout"...and in the body, you elaborate to ask "Do I have to use a sink tip."....which is 2 separate questions.

To your subject question then: YES, of course...with what I said above in mind...you can use WF line of either type (float or sink) to fish streamers. If using WF Floating, will it get down to fishable depths without a sink tip....or using some variation of sinking WF fly line (See, many variations of the same question)? THAT is where the bulk of the answers in this post went.

Myself....slower currents in rivers and streams...or lakes....either WF or DT Floating and long leader/tippet set ups have been successful for me for many species of fish ranging from walleye and pike to salmon and steelhead.... including trout. And in some of those systems, I may be running into the 'teens' of feet deep (i.e. fifTEEN feet deep). Hell, Brian Chan....still water trout fishing guru...fishes in the 20's depth like this.

In these systems above, that angle up from the fly to the floating line works nice with weighted or moderately weighted flies including streamers and nymphs (nymphs that swim to emerge, not those that crawl).

For quicker currents...I have ranged from sink tips, intermediate sink lines to full sink lines and done well. I would NOT use any variation of sink line for situations where there is lots of bottom 'stuff' like rocks, woods or weeds whereby the sinking line gets fouled in the stuff. I like fishing, not hog-tying and pulling snags.

All in all...and as said here already by some...and to answer what I think was your true question....Floating line (of either type, WF or DT) and using either sink tips and/or weighed flies gives you the best option in slow to moderate water up to...say 10 feet. More depth or more current...you may need to consider more.

Phew...can I blabber on or what? :D

King Joe Outa Here!
 
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