Can You I.D. this Early Graphite Ferrule Style?

Lewis Chessman

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Hi. I initially posted this on the UK forum and the trail has led across the Atlantic to you guys ....
Here's the op:


I have an old 2 pc graphite rod with 'D. Palmer, Partridge 'Black Shadow' inscribed on the reel seat which I'm considering stripping down and rebuilding for the practice.

I suspect it's early 1980s but it may be older still. I haven't found anything on line about it - which isn't that surprising really, it's nothing special and I doubt Tom Moran had anything to do with this Partridge! ;)

It has quite a nice reel seat and silver winding check. The cork is acceptable but not 'fine' and it is eyed with Fuji S-L ceramics (green ringed).

What I'm not at all familiar with is the butt-over-tip ferrule - a carbon sleeve with a metal collar fitted over the top of the butt section to reinforce it, then whipped over with thread. The tip has a continuous spigot to marry with it.

I don't recall seeing this method of joint on other graphite rods (most reinforced joints were tip-over-butt) so if anyone knows anything about them - other rods or blank makers employing this style in particular - I'd be interested to hear.
Any information much appreciated, thanks.
1-P1030173.JPG

1-P1030174.JPG

In the meantime, I took the rod out for a grass cast and was surprised how impressed I was. Very smooth and capable of accurate 60 ft casts even in my hands.
I decided just to repair rather than rework it, then fish it this coming season.

The upshot of the UK thread was that a similar ferrule was used on both MARCO 'Hornet Pinfire' rods in the UK and on Lamiglas '96% Graphites' from 1974 on - and that the 'Pinfires' were, indeed, imported Lamiglas Blanks, which figures!

Now, I would be very happy to own a 1st Gen. Lamiglas graphite so I am hopeful that this is what I have but ..... I have yet to see a GF or Pinfire with this metal collar supporting the top of the joint.
Has anyone ever come across any rod with a similar or identical butt ferrule? Thanks for your thoughts.
 

Ard

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Hi James,

I'm far from a rod expert but looking at the image that looks to be an applied spigot ferrule. Applied being one that is not formed integrally to the sections but produced separately then mounted and dressed on. I've never owned a rod built in this manner so am just saying what it looks like from here.

Ard
 

Lewis Chessman

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Hi, Ard. I've been so focused on the female sleeve that I hadn't notice that there was a spigot at all - 'applied' or not! Good spot, cheers.
There's a Lamiglas '96%' here for comparison and, sure enough, it's the same top-section male spigot design in the 2nd pic. :)

It's looking promising but that nickel-silver collar is bugging me at the moment.

Edit: Here is Gary Loomis's US patent No. 4362418A showing his Graphite Ferrule Joint and, of course, describing it in great detail.
This patent has a Priority Date of 22nd Dec 1980 however Loomis was working at Lamiglas until 1978. I'm unsure when they (Lamiglas) began using Loomis's design on their rods, or for how long? I own a Loomis Composite Industries 'Striker II' 8'6'', #6, 2 pc. manufactured between 1980 - 1982 (prob. '81/'82 given that there was a 'Striker' first) and that has a tip-over-butt sleeve joint, so Loomis himself had abandoned them himself by then.

There's no mention of the metal collar in the patent but everything else looks identical to mine. I can't believe that the addition of that silver ring would be enough to obviate the patent so ....
I reckon I have an early Lamiglas 9ft, #6, 2 pc blank here. :)
 
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Ard

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The nickel collet around the lip of the female was common on glass rods here during mid 60's into the 70's I've had several rods with that feature in the past. I think there was a problem with the female chipping around the rim and the metal ring was the cure.
 

Lewis Chessman

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Aye, I think that's why its there alright. A bit more protection for a bit more weight - and it's not unattractive now its polished up.
I'm telling myself it's a premium improvement. ;)

Bizarre as it may seem, a UK member knows a David Palmer, a gentleman involved with the British Fly Dressers' Guild .... I took the liberty of emailing him to ask whether, by chance, this was once his rod. Who knows!??! If so, he may know more.
 

Rip Tide

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It's likely either a Lamiglas or a Phillipson
My money's on Phillipson but a peek at the reel seat, grip and winding check might confirm this
 

Lewis Chessman

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That's an interesting call, Rip Tide! I hadn't considered Phillipson at all.
I've not had much luck locating images of Phillipson graphite rods to compare with but did find photos of an S.A. 'System G' here on the CFF and for sale here.

I read there that 3M/SA bought Phillipson, hence the connection. According to 'flyfishing4goldentrout' on post #13, ''The metal ferruled graphite rods are called system G graphite, made on Carbonite Blanks after the 1973 purchase of the Carbonite Company of El Segundo, California.''

I wonder if this is what you are recalling? The SA-SG does have the metal collar on the butt ferrule, but it isn't reinforced in the same way. The spigot is metal, apparently! That was great to see - completely new to me, thanks!

I will add photos of the seat, handle & w/c tomorrow - I've omitted to so far as I think this is a UK home-build but am happy to in the hope it helps.
 

Ard

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Call me paranoid but I had typed the name Phillipson in the first reply but backed off for fear that Rip Tide would see it and tell me no way it's Phillipson ;) When it comes to these kind of questions I defer to Rip because I recognize him as one who always knows.

What came to mind were some old LL Bean rods I've had that had the same ferrule design, they were made by Phillipson for Bean. At any rate there seems to be confirmation :)
 

Lewis Chessman

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Thanks, Ard & Rip Tide, that had me scurrying off to the archives again. :)
I'm afraid that all the older LL Bean graphites I've been able to look at have been tip-over-butt sleeve ferrules and 'unapplied', straight spigots on the butt ..... except one here.
However, although it has a similar looking reinforced sleeve ferrule it is on the tip section and there is no applied spigot on the butt, either, so no match there.

If you guys can think of any LL Bean models you remember being similar to mine I'd be obliged. It was good to be reminded of the Bean/Loomis link though, I'd forgotten that wee gem. Don't see much Bean over here so it's the sort of thing that can fly under the radar. ;)
 

Rip Tide

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I have an "early-ish" Bean/Loomis 5wt. Regular tip over butt ferrule
I don't ever use it myself, but it's the rod that I lend out to beginners in need of trying something decent.

... like my son :D

 

Lewis Chessman

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Thanks for the pic, Rip Tide .... is it a green rod, by any chance?
I have today written to a UK rod builder of over 30 years experience about another rod, a 'Simpsons of Turnford Anglo-American IMX T400 9ft #6' which may well be Loomis IMX, too. The gentleman worked for Simpsons back in the '90s and may even have built my rod, so hopefully he can enlighten me on that enigma.

But back to this one ....

I mentioned I'd emailed a possible past-owner of this old Partridge. Amazingly, he replied today to confirm that indeed, this was his rod! He thinks he purchased it from Partridge's ''in the late '80s'' but sadly did not know the blank's origins.

As promised, some photos of the reel seat and handle. I suspect these were chosen by Partridge but the seat may be identifiable to older heads? I rather like it. It reminds me of chic, '70s Danish furniture! :)

1-P1030223.JPG
'Partridge ''Black Shadow'', Made in England, D. Palmer'

1-P1030224.JPG

1-P1030225.JPG

I've pretty much run out of leads for this for now - but it's been fun playing rod detective. Thanks for your thoughts and help, guys.
 

Lewis Chessman

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An interesting update almost two years on .....
Over on the UKFFF a helpful member, Rhithrogena, today posted the following advert from Trout and Salmon magazine, May 1978:

1-Partridge Black Shadow (TandT ) Advert 1978.jpg

So, this clarifies the origin of the curious reinforced ferule and the origin of the blank - a very early Thomas & Thomas!
I have to admit feeling a little smug that I recognised a touch of quality in this blank and resisted stripping it back as a practice-rebuild rod two years ago. I'm sorely tempted now to rebuild it with snakes and do 'a proper job' on it.

I ran the '78 price into an inflation calculator and the £85 it cost then is equivalent to £490, or $665 today, so not a budget rod by any means.
So, what I thought was a rather nice Loomis-designed early Lamiglas 96% Graphite turns into a rather nice, very early T&T Graphite. I hope to compare it to the 9' 2" (was 6") #7 T&T IM6 Graphite I'm currently restoring later this season.

And now I'm back to looking for an early Lamiglas for the collection! ;)
 
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