Clearwater 7'6" 4wt

[Cookster]

I bought a Clearwater 7'6" 4wt rod before I had even fished for the first time. I was planning for small brooks and creeks with lots of overhang and thick forests in the North East. At the time Orvis had told me that the rod was Moderate to Fast Action. I over lined the rod with 5wt line. In the summer and fall I switched to an 8'8" rod and bigger water. I recently contacted Orvis again to ask about fly lines for my 7'6" and in that discussion they mentioned that my Clearwater was a Moderate to Slow Action rod -- just the opposite of what they told me the first time. Does anybody have any experience with this 7'6" Orvis Clearwater 4wt rod and what do you use for line? Is it mod to slow or mod to fast? Is it a suitable Creek Rod or are there better options for tight quarters fishing? Thx

 

[Curmudgeon]

I think you may be overthinking this. I wouldn't be concerned about the difference between what one person describes as "moderate to slow" and another describes as "moderate to fast" when talking about the same rod. These terms are all subjective and open to interpretation. The key word here is "moderate" and that's what your rod action is. And a shorter length rod with a moderate action is exactly what you want for short casts on small, tight water. A moderate action should load without a lot of line out and should give more delicate presentations than a faster rod. The kind of fishing you are talking about is exactly what your rod was designed for. As far as line recommendation goes, I'd start by asking if you are happy with the way the rod Performs with the 5wt you have on it now. If you are, you don't have to change. In practical terms, overlining your rod will let it load faster with less line out and increase the "feel" of loading the rod (both probably positive results for a newer angler in a small stream). The downsides are that it might reduce overall casting distance (not important on small streams) and that a 5wt line will present less delicately than an equivalent 4wt (potentially significant on a small stream).

If you are looking to try another line, I would suggest a true-to-weight 4wt line aimed at presentation. Every major line company makes one of these. I would get whatever fits the profile and is on sale or reasonably priced. Do not get a line that is over the AFTMA standard grain weight. With this line, you can compare the rod with the weight of line it was presumably designed for with the overweighted line (and how heavy is that 5wt line? Is it really a 5.5 or 6wt?). The "right" line depends on your flies, your casting distances, your water, and your casting stroke as much as it does the rod. For really short casts, the 5 wt might perform best. If you are throwing a lot of 45 foot casts, the 4wt might perform better.

I think you will learn more and get better long-term results if you compare two "known" lines yourself than if you just buy a line that someone else recommends. A "heavy" 4wtline might not feel significantly different from your 5wt.

Let us know what you choose and how it works out for you!

 

[jayr]

That rod should be most suitable for a creek rod. At least what I commonly refer to as a creek where I fish. Then again, what is a creek to one person is a river to others.

There are many lines that should work well on that rod. I do not have or have cast one, but my understanding that is a more moderate action rod, definitely not fast action from what I understand. I have several rods that should be of the same action though. If it were me, I would get a DT line. In Orvis lines, the Superfine or Hydros DT. AirFlo makes some good lines, what used to be the Super Dri Elite should work well. They have a new name, I believe it is called Universal taper. Probably even good old Cortland 444 Peach should work well.

You didn't say what you plan on throwing. Dries, nymphs, etc., what?

 

[Cookster]

I think you may be overthinking this. I wouldn't be concerned about the difference between what one person describes as "moderate to slow" and another describes as "moderate to fast" when talking about the same rod. These terms are all subjective and open to interpretation. The key word here is "moderate" and that's what your rod action is. And a shorter length rod with a moderate action is exactly what you want for short casts on small, tight water. A moderate action should load without a lot of line out and should give more delicate presentations than a faster rod. The kind of fishing you are talking about is exactly what your rod was designed for. As far as line recommendation goes, I'd start by asking if you are happy with the way the rod Performs with the 5wt you have on it now. If you are, you don't have to change. In practical terms, overlining your rod will let it load faster with less line out and increase the "feel" of loading the rod (both probably positive results for a newer angler in a small stream). The downsides are that it might reduce overall casting distance (not important on small streams) and that a 5wt line will present less delicately than an equivalent 4wt (potentially significant on a small stream).

If you are looking to try another line, I would suggest a true-to-weight 4wt line aimed at presentation. Every major line company makes one of these. I would get whatever fits the profile and is on sale or reasonably priced. Do not get a line that is over the AFTMA standard grain weight. With this line, you can compare the rod with the weight of line it was presumably designed for with the overweighted line (and how heavy is that 5wt line? Is it really a 5.5 or 6wt?). The "right" line depends on your flies, your casting distances, your water, and your casting stroke as much as it does the rod. For really short casts, the 5 wt might perform best. If you are throwing a lot of 45 foot casts, the 4wt might perform better.

I think you will learn more and get better long-term results if you compare two "known" lines yourself than if you just buy a line that someone else recommends. A "heavy" 4wtline might not feel significantly different from your 5wt.

Let us know what you choose and how it works out for you!

I will let you know. And many, many, many thanks for this info. I'm late to fly fishing and older so info like this is so very helpful, in so many ways, considering my limited experience. Thx for taking the time to share this knowledge. I understand what you've outlined completely and I will work on incorporating it over the winter months -- fishing, for me, is still four months and 24 days away. And I totally agree that I was overthinking. Again, many thanks.

 

[Cookster]

That rod should be most suitable for a creek rod. At least what I commonly refer to as a creek where I fish. Then again, what is a creek to one person is a river to others.

There are many lines that should work well on that rod. I do not have or have cast one, but my understanding that is a more moderate action rod, definitely not fast action from what I understand. I have several rods that should be of the same action though. If it were me, I would get a DT line. In Orvis lines, the Superfine or Hydros DT. AirFlo makes some good lines, what used to be the Super Dri Elite should work well. They have a new name, I believe it is called Universal taper. Probably even good old Cortland 444 Peach should work well.

You didn't say what you plan on throwing. Dries, nymphs, etc., what?

I think we're on the same page with the water. A US creek is a Canadian brook. But don't quote me. As far as flies go, and thx for pointing out my omission, I'm addicted to size 14 & 16 Klinkhamers cast down and across. I'm a big fan of the Adams Family (Irresistible, Parachute and Dry) size 14. I use size 12, 14 & 16 Prince, Pheasant Tail & Hare's Ear Weighted Nymphs. I also have a size 10 Bomber and Beadhead Streamers. Curmudgeon mentioned 'flies' as a key element. Does anything sound out of place with my flies?

 

[jayr]

I think we're on the same page with the water. A US creek is a Canadian brook. But don't quote me. As far as flies go, and thx for pointing out my omission, I'm addicted to size 14 & 16 Klinkhamers cast down and across. I'm a big fan of the Adams Family (Irresistible, Parachute and Dry) size 14. I use size 12, 14 & 16 Prince, Pheasant Tail & Hare's Ear Weighted Nymphs. I also have a size 10 Bomber and Beadhead Streamers. Curmudgeon mentioned 'flies' as a key element. Does anything sound out of place with my flies?

Out of place? I don't think so. What works for you is all that counts.

 

[GManBart]

I bought a Clearwater 7'6" 4wt rod before I had even fished for the first time. I was planning for small brooks and creeks with lots of overhang and thick forests in the North East. At the time Orvis had told me that the rod was Moderate to Fast Action. I over lined the rod with 5wt line. In the summer and fall I switched to an 8'8" rod and bigger water. I recently contacted Orvis again to ask about fly lines for my 7'6" and in that discussion they mentioned that my Clearwater was a Moderate to Slow Action rod -- just the opposite of what they told me the first time. Does anybody have any experience with this 7'6" Orvis Clearwater 4wt rod and what do you use for line? Is it mod to slow or mod to fast? Is it a suitable Creek Rod or are there better options for tight quarters fishing? Thx

To add a bit to what's been stated (all good advice), remember that when a company claims a rod is "moderate" it's usually in relation to their other rods, not any real objective standard, so there's a big range out there. Similarly, many lines made today don't really follow the correct weight standards for the way they are marked....i.e. just because two lines both say WF4 doesn't mean they'll cast similarly. Some lines are intentionally half a line heavy to help load the super fast rods that are popular...sort of defeats the purpose of putting weights on rods and lines, but it's where we are.

The good thing is that rod will be perfect for small to medium water, so no worries there. I would try it with a true WF4 or DT4 to see how it acts. I just started using fly lines from 406 Fly Lines and I'm really impressed. They are a small business in Montana (husband and wife I believe) who has their lines made by Scientific Anglers in Michigan, and they are true to traditional weights....win, win, win!

 

[Curmudgeon]

I think we're on the same page with the water. A US creek is a Canadian brook. But don't quote me. As far as flies go, and thx for pointing out my omission, I'm addicted to size 14 & 16 Klinkhamers cast down and across. I'm a big fan of the Adams Family (Irresistible, Parachute and Dry) size 14. I use size 12, 14 & 16 Prince, Pheasant Tail & Hare's Ear Weighted Nymphs. I also have a size 10 Bomber and Beadhead Streamers. Curmudgeon mentioned 'flies' as a key element. Does anything sound out of place with my flies?

If you are throwing very heavy or wind resistant flies (think big hoppers) or multiple flies, or adding weight to your leaders, a heavier line might make sense. Nothing you've mentioned falls into that category.

 

[Cookster]

If you are throwing very heavy or wind resistant flies (think big hoppers) or multiple flies, or adding weight to your leaders, a heavier line might make sense. Nothing you've mentioned falls into that category.

Thx Curmugeon, again. That seems like the missing piece. I not only found out more about my rod but what line to use with it.

 

[Cookster]

To add a bit to what's been stated (all good advice), remember that when a company claims a rod is "moderate" it's usually in relation to their other rods, not any real objective standard, so there's a big range out there. Similarly, many lines made today don't really follow the correct weight standards for the way they are marked....i.e. just because two lines both say WF4 doesn't mean they'll cast similarly. Some lines are intentionally half a line heavy to help load the super fast rods that are popular...sort of defeats the purpose of putting weights on rods and lines, but it's where we are.

The good thing is that rod will be perfect for small to medium water, so no worries there. I would try it with a true WF4 or DT4 to see how it acts. I just started using fly lines from 406 Fly Lines and I'm really impressed. They are a small business in Montana (husband and wife I believe) who has their lines made by Scientific Anglers in Michigan, and they are true to traditional weights....win, win, win!

Thx -- this, too, has been so helpful. I switched between four different lines this year and I'm surprised I caught any fish at all. I did learn how to spool a reel quickly. I honestly think, though, that my casting was so bad, until the end of the season, that it was almost impossible to judge what was and what wasn't working. I truly believe that with all the help here that I'll be ready for the start of the 2022 season. Cheers ...

 

[Bam Boozelled]

I have a 4wt 7'6 Clearwater and I use 4wt Orvis Superfine fly line, and it barely leaves the guides most days on my small creek. When I do cast I have no issue sending everything from size 22 dries to double nymph bob rigs, but I'm never in a situation where I need to cast more then 20ft. Most of the time I'm prospecting with dry droppers (size 10-14 dry and 14-22 wet). I really enjoy the rod, its been great for me and my applications which is a lot of bow and arrow and roll casts from awkward positions in heavy brush/trees. I would say the rod is defiantly on the mod-slow side from my experience and the superfine is delicate and lands very softly (why I like it), but wind will take the fun out of everything in the casting game cause. I'm not an expert nor a casting aficionado and I'm able to punch through breezy conditions with the right rigs and approaches it just takes some hauling and lowered loops.

Overall I have been very happy with it.

 

[Cookster]

I have a 4wt 7'6 Clearwater and I use 4wt Orvis Superfine fly line, and it barely leaves the guides most days on my small creek. When I do cast I have no issue sending everything from size 22 dries to double nymph bob rigs, but I'm never in a situation where I need to cast more then 20ft. Most of the time I'm prospecting with dry droppers (size 10-14 dry and 14-22 wet). I really enjoy the rod, its been great for me and my applications which is a lot of bow and arrow and roll casts from awkward positions in heavy brush/trees. I would say the rod is defiantly on the mod-slow side from my experience and the superfine is delicate and lands very softly (why I like it), but wind will take the fun out of everything in the casting game cause. I'm not an expert nor a casting aficionado and I'm able to punch through breezy conditions with the right rigs and approaches it just takes some hauling and lowered loops.

Overall I have been very happy with it.

That sure confirms what I was hoping to hear -- thx for that. I don't think I gave this rod a fair shake. I'll have a lot more confidence with it next spring. Thx for sharing your experience with the rod -- much better than reading manufacturer reviews for sure.

 

[wjlapier]

I have the previous model rod and it feels like medium action. I use a Battenkill Disc with cheap Amazon 4wt WF line. I fish a river that would probably be a creek to some. Brushy is many places where this rod shines.

 

[AndrewFromBoston]

If you’re happy fishing that line and rod on small water, that’s all that matters. Over lining can be good when making short casts. If you’re not happy with over lining, try to find a deal on a Scientific Anglers 4wt Trout taper. It comes in 4 grades - frequency, mastery, amplitude smooth and amplitude. The more expensive ones are a bit better at shooting line for long casts, but the frequency is a good line that you can often find at a low price.

 

[Cookster]

If you’re happy fishing that line and rod on small water, that’s all that matters. Over lining can be good when making short casts. If you’re not happy with over lining, try to find a deal on a Scientific Anglers 4wt Trout taper. It comes in 4 grades - frequency, mastery, amplitude smooth and amplitude. The more expensive ones are a bit better at shooting line for long casts, but the frequency is a good line that you can often find at a low price.

Thx. I have 4wt Mastery but I was trying it on my 8'8" rod -- I picked the line up late in the season. If I can get a nice day (before the snow starts to fly way up here) I'll try the line with my 7'6" rod with some lawn casting. I agree with the first line of your post totally and thx for the suggestions.

 

[new2flyfishing]

I bought a Clearwater 7'6" 4wt rod before I had even fished for the first time. I was planning for small brooks and creeks with lots of overhang and thick forests in the North East. At the time Orvis had told me that the rod was Moderate to Fast Action. I over lined the rod with 5wt line. In the summer and fall I switched to an 8'8" rod and bigger water. I recently contacted Orvis again to ask about fly lines for my 7'6" and in that discussion they mentioned that my Clearwater was a Moderate to Slow Action rod -- just the opposite of what they told me the first time. Does anybody have any experience with this 7'6" Orvis Clearwater 4wt rod and what do you use for line? Is it mod to slow or mod to fast? Is it a suitable Creek Rod or are there better options for tight quarters fishing? Thx

Can't help with your questions, but want to point out that it is hard to fish without a rod (and some line for it). ?

Kidding aside, consider yourself lucky you only bought one rod before going out to fish. I bought a 5wt Echo Carbon XL first. Reel that I ordered for it was a 3/4 when it arrived. (Totally my fault.) Did I exchange the reel? Of course not. I did what you are supposed to do. Ordered a 4wt XL for it and the proper 5/6 reel for the 5wt. Then came across a 3wt and 4wt Redington Classic Trout for less than $110 each. Then last week an Aetos 6wt arrived. Couldn't pass up over $110 off regular price. I've yet to fish with a fly rod. I did get out a couple times this year to fish, but those times were with baitcast gear for bass. Hopefully that last sentence won't get me banned! ?

Now I am looking to get a fiberglass rod. Oops.

 

[Cookster]

Can't help with your questions, but want to point out that it is hard to fish without a rod (and some line for it). ?

Kidding aside, consider yourself lucky you only bought one rod before going out to fish. I bought a 5wt Echo Carbon XL first. Reel that I ordered for it was a 3/4 when it arrived. (Totally my fault.) Did I exchange the reel? Of course not. I did what you are supposed to do. Ordered a 4wt XL for it and the proper 5/6 reel for the 5wt. Then came across a 3wt and 4wt Redington Classic Trout for less than $110 each. Then last week an Aetos 6wt arrived. Couldn't pass up over $110 off regular price. I've yet to fish with a fly rod. I did get out a couple times this year to fish, but those times were with baitcast gear for bass. Hopefully that last sentence won't get me banned! ?

Now I am looking to get a fiberglass rod. Oops.

I feel your pain (and your humorous approach in dealing with it). Could be a movie here. I will consider myself lucky and thx for the reply.

 

[Jim Mc]

I have the newer Clearwater 7-6 4wt rod (2020). I got it for my wife ? for a few trips a year to a very special trout creek. Got the combo outfit, best bang for the buck deal on sale. The WF-4 clearwater trout fly line it came with is a great match. I think "Moderate to Fast" range is correct, great casting rod works well in close and you can push it for distance. I like the way it roll casts also. Have ran tungsten bead #12 woolly buggers to #18 nymphs and drys. My main rod I fish most of the time is a 1985 J. K. Fisher blank 7-6 4wt moderate-progressive, these rods are worlds apart and have landed many large and small rainbows on both. I like them both but the new clearwater is becoming a favorite when the wife let's me use it. When it comes to small water this Clearwater 7-6 rod works well but I drop down to a 7ft 4wt rod for real small or very hard to fish water.

 

[dennyk]

I bought a friend of mine a Clearwater 7'6" 3 wt. I paired it up with a SA Mastery Trout WF 3 WT line. It casts wonderfully. It became his favorite small stream rod. IMHO you don't need to over line it.

Denny

 

[AndrewFromBoston]

Can't help with your questions, but want to point out that it is hard to fish without a rod (and some line for it). ?

Kidding aside, consider yourself lucky you only bought one rod before going out to fish. I bought a 5wt Echo Carbon XL first. Reel that I ordered for it was a 3/4 when it arrived. (Totally my fault.) Did I exchange the reel? Of course not. I did what you are supposed to do. Ordered a 4wt XL for it and the proper 5/6 reel for the 5wt. Then came across a 3wt and 4wt Redington Classic Trout for less than $110 each. Then last week an Aetos 6wt arrived. Couldn't pass up over $110 off regular price. I've yet to fish with a fly rod. I did get out a couple times this year to fish, but those times were with baitcast gear for bass. Hopefully that last sentence won't get me banned! ?

Now I am looking to get a fiberglass rod. Oops.

I think you should go fishing… also, you can definitely fish for bass with that 6.