Coronavirus and the travelling angler

driftless22

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Why not buy travel insurance? I had a trip to Japan at the end of February, and at the time (due to the cruise ship that was in the news) it was looking iffy to me as to whether there would be travel ban restrictions to Japan. I purchased travel insurance from a reputable company (Berkshire Hathaway) for 2 people for less than $100 for a $4000 trip. That included $500k coverage for emergency medical evacuation.
If you purchased travel insurance before the Coronavirus outbreak, you might be covered. If you purchase travel insurance now, the Coronavirus epidemic is considered to be a “well known event”, and trip interruption due to the epidemic is not covered.
 

Matt4.0

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If I drive about an hour south, I’ll be deep in hillbilly country. And I’m glad you remember when I was young and felt invincible. That aside, do these people really feel that way? They are eschewing advice not to travel to China and Italy? And they are unwilling to wash their hands? Wow! Glad I don’t live there.
Okaloosa will also tell you Colorado is hell on earth and you can’t travel west of I25 without entering never ending gridlock and we all should move to Montana asap :)

I live west of Denver and travel regularly throughout the front range (as well as New Mexico). I haven’t met a person yet who is nearly as cavalier as some some suggest about basic precautions. The closest I’ve experienced first (or really second)-hand to anything we keep “hearing/reading” about how crazy people are acting is my wife telling me Costco was a sh**-show last weekend. *
 

okaloosa

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Okaloosa will also tell you Colorado is hell on earth and you can’t travel west of I25 without entering never ending gridlock and we all should move to Montana asap :)

I live west of Denver and travel regularly throughout the front range (as well as New Mexico). I haven’t met a person yet who is nearly as cavalier as some some suggest about basic precautions. The closest I’ve experienced first (or really second)-hand to anything we keep “hearing/reading” about how crazy people are acting is my wife telling me Costco was a sh**-show last weekend. *
Colorado is wonderful..especially west of I25......Denver, not so much;)
 

Matt4.0

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I got an email from United a couple days ago saying any flight you book with them this month can be changed for free within the next 12 months....funny it took a global panic and a major threat to their short-term business to take the drastic step of doing the same thing Southwest has done for a long time.

On this topic, airfare prices are starting to decrease rapidly...not a bad time to book something later in the summer if you believe this will all taper down by then.
 

Matt4.0

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Okaloosa will also tell you Colorado is hell on earth and you can’t travel west of I25 without entering never ending gridlock and we all should move to Montana asap :)

I live west of Denver and travel regularly throughout the front range (as well as New Mexico). I haven’t met a person yet who is nearly as cavalier as some some suggest about basic precautions. The closest I’ve experienced first (or really second)-hand to anything we keep “hearing/reading” about how crazy people are acting is my wife telling me Costco was a sh**-show last weekend. *
While my post was mostly tongue in cheek, I owe Okaloosa an apology as the Colorado Springs mention jogged my memory in the wrong direction and I mistakenly attributed some recent Colorado-bashing from another forum member to him. Apparently he recently moved here and for some odd reason enjoys it as I do. :)
 

iv_wjb

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On this topic, airfare prices are starting to decrease rapidly...not a bad time to book something later in the summer if you believe this will all taper down by then.
Good to know... Thanks. I’ll keep an eye on the prices as I’ve yet to buy my airfare for Idaho in October.
 

WNCtroutstalker

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If you purchased travel insurance before the Coronavirus outbreak, you might be covered. If you purchase travel insurance now, the Coronavirus epidemic is considered to be a “well known event”, and trip interruption due to the epidemic is not covered.
Expanding on this a bit, if you are considering booking a destination trip and relying on insurance to mitigate certain risks (trip cancellation, trip interruption, emergency evac, etc.), make sure you understand the covered conditions/events and what's excluded. And by that I would suggest reading the actual and no doubt lengthy policy before purchase.

I am certainly not an insurance expert and policies may well vary from one issuer to another, but I can tell you, from personal experience, that having a trip cancelled because of Corona virus concerns is not a covered event under the standard policy offered by one of the leading travel insurance companies. And to be clear, the cancellation was not due to the trip participants deciding they didn't want to go, but rather because the destination country has barred persons from the US (among other countries) from entering.

The "cancel for any reason" type of policy certainly offers greater flexibility, but it costs more and likely doesn't cover all of the trip costs. Again, I'm not an insurance expert and my experience is with only one company, but my recollection is that the additional premium quoted for the enhanced cancel for any reason coverage was something like 8% of the insured costs and in that situation only 75% of the costs are reimbursed. But perhaps other companies have broader coverages.

The decision of whether to book a destination trip in the current environment is a personal one, and requires one to assess the risks to their health (getting sick), freedom (getting quarantined or stuck somewhere) and finances (forfeiting trip costs). If looking to insurance to minimize/address those risks, just be sure to understand the coverages, exclusions and payout limitations so that the booking decision is a fully informed one.
 

iv_wjb

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I bought Cancellation and Interruption insurance for my Spring trip a couple of weeks ago. Just got off the phone with the Insurer (CAA / AAA) and they assured me that their policy covers cancellations and interruptions, including due-to Covid-19. Their rates have increased but, they are still offering complete coverage. In light of this (and because I had a quote for my Autumn trip) I bought another policy for that trip, at the reduced rate. Still pricy but... Worth it, IMO.

I re-read the policy documents and, am confident I am covered.

I remain hopeful that I do not have cause to use either policy but, I feel a whole-lot better about having the insurance, just in-case.
 

Matt4.0

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worth watching
YouTube
I watched it. So this guy is obviously there to plug his book. Also interesting he quotes the same figures you mentioned in an unsubstantiated source earlier in this thread...I wonder if he’s the “anonymous source” those numbers came from? (I looked into that a little more...the only articles I could find referenced a power point someone may have showed the AHA with these numbers. The AHA nor any other reputable source have given those estimates any support).

I suppose my point is while I think this is to be taken seriously and those at risk should take precautions, the hysteria is overblown and is threatening to send us into a global recession over people acting like this is the next plague that will wipe out half the world population.

 

okaloosa

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I watched it. So this guy is obviously there to plug his book. Also interesting he quotes the same figures you mentioned in an unsubstantiated source earlier in this thread...I wonder if he’s the “anonymous source” those numbers came from? (I looked into that a little more...the only articles I could find referenced a power point someone may have showed the AHA with these numbers. The AHA nor any other reputable source have given those estimates any support).

I suppose my point is while I think this is to be taken seriously and those at risk should take precautions, the hysteria is overblown and is threatening to send us into a global recession over people acting like this is the next plague that will wipe out half the world population.

he is not just a guy trying to push his book. he is the real deal. I am a retired MD. I took epidemiology, virology, infectious disease in medical school. This guy is the real deal. our politicians on both sides are not read a little about him....

Michael T. Osterholm, PhD, MPH
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mto-stuart_isett.jpg
Michael Osterholm
Stuart Isett for Fortune Brainstorm Health / Flickr cc
Dr. Osterholm is Regents Professor, McKnight Presidential Endowed Chair in Public Health, the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy (CIDRAP), Distinguished Teaching Professor in the Division of Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, a professor in the Technological Leadership Institute, College of Science and Engineering, and an adjunct professor in the Medical School, all at the University of Minnesota. From June 2018 through May 2019, he served as a Science Envoy for Health Security on behalf of the US Department of State. He is also on the Board of Regents at Luther College in Decorah, Iowa.

He is the author of the 2017 book, Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs, in which he not only details the most pressing infectious disease threats of our day but lays out a nine-point strategy on how to address them, with preventing a global flu pandemic at the top of the list.

In addition, Dr. Osterholm is a member of the National Academy of Medicine (NAM) and the Council of Foreign Relations. In June 2005 Dr. Osterholm was appointed by Michael Leavitt, Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), to the newly established National Science Advisory Board on Biosecurity. In July 2008, he was named to the University of Minnesota Academic Health Center’s Academy of Excellence in Health Research. In October 2008, he was appointed to the World Economic Forum Working Group on Pandemics.

From 2001 through early 2005, Dr. Osterholm, in addition to his role at CIDRAP, served as a Special Advisor to then–HHS Secretary Tommy G. Thompson on issues related to bioterrorism and public health preparedness. He was also appointed to the Secretary's Advisory Council on Public Health Preparedness. On April 1, 2002, Dr. Osterholm was appointed by Thompson to be his representative on the interim management team to lead the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). With the appointment of Dr. Julie Gerberding as director of the CDC on July 3, 2002, Dr. Osterholm was asked by Thompson to assist Dr. Gerberding on his behalf during the transition period. He filled that role through January 2003.

Previously, Dr. Osterholm served for 24 years (1975-1999) in various roles at the Minnesota Department of Health (MDH), the last 15 as state epidemiologist and chief of the Acute Disease Epidemiology Section. While at the MDH, Osterholm and his team were leaders in the area of infectious disease epidemiology. He has led numerous investigations of outbreaks of international importance, including foodborne diseases, the association of tampons and toxic shock syndrome (TSS), the transmission of hepatitis B in healthcare settings, and human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection in healthcare workers. In addition, his team conducted numerous studies regarding infectious diseases in child-care settings, vaccine-preventable diseases (particularly Haemophilus influenzae type b and hepatitis B), Lyme disease, and other emerging infections. They were also among the first to call attention to the changing epidemiology of foodborne diseases.

Dr. Osterholm was the Principal Investigator and Director of the NIH-supported Minnesota Center of Excellence for Influenza Research and Surveillance (2007-2014) and chaired the Executive Committee of the Centers of Excellence Influenza Research and Surveillance network.

Dr. Osterholm has been an international leader on the critical concern regarding our preparedness for an influenza pandemic. His invited papers in the journals Foreign Affairs, the New England Journal of Medicine, and Nature detail the threat of an influenza pandemic before the recent pandemic and the steps we must take to better prepare for such events. Dr. Osterholm has also been an international leader on the growing concern regarding the use of biological agents as catastrophic weapons targeting civilian populations. In that role, he served as a personal advisor to the late King Hussein of Jordan. Dr. Osterholm provides a comprehensive and pointed review of America's current state of preparedness for a bioterrorism attack in his New York Times best-selling book, Living Terrors: What America Needs to Know to Survive the Coming Bioterrorist Catastrophe.

The author of more than 315 papers and abstracts, including 21 book chapters, Dr. Osterholm is a frequently invited guest lecturer on the topic of epidemiology of infectious diseases. He serves on the editorial boards of nine journals, including Infection Control and Hospital Epidemiology and Microbial Drug Resistance: Mechanisms, Epidemiology and Disease, and he is a reviewer for 24 additional journals, including the New England Journal of Medicine, the Journal of the AmericanMedical Association, and Science. He is past president of the Council of State and Territorial Epidemiologists (CSTE) and has served on the CDC's National Center for Infectious Diseases Board of Scientific Counselors from 1992 to 1997. Dr. Osterholm served on the IOM Forum on Microbial Threats from 1994 through 2011. He has served on the IOM Committee on Emerging Microbial Threats to Health in the 21st Century and the IOM Committee on Food Safety, Production to Consumption, and he was a reviewer for the IOM Report on Chemical and Biological Terrorism. As a member of the American Society for Microbiology (ASM), Dr. Osterholm has served on the Committee on Biomedical Research of the Public and Scientific Affairs Board, the Task Force on Biological Weapons, and the Task Force on Antibiotic Resistance. He is a frequent consultant to the World Health Organization (WHO), the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Department of Defense, and the CDC. He is a fellow of the American College of Epidemiology and the Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA).

Dr. Osterholm has received numerous honors for his work, including an honorary doctorate from Luther College; the Pump Handle Award, CSTE; the Charles C. Shepard Science Award, CDC; the Harvey W. Wiley Medal, FDA; the Squibb Award, IDSA; Distinguished University Teaching Professor, Environmental Health Sciences, School of Public Health, UMN; and the Wade Hampton Frost Leadership Award, American Public Health Association. He also has been the recipient of six major research awards from the NIH and the CDC.
 

karstopo

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Good share. Interesting. Always like an expert that isn’t breathless or agitated and Dr. Osterholm is very even keel, not emotional and just presenting what they know and also what they don’t know. His comments about the cruise ships made me laugh in a way as he’s dead on keeping everybody on the ship pretty much guaranteed most would get infected.

My friend is in senior management, in operations, of a large health care organization here in Houston. I talked to him yesterday evening, said he was in 12 straight hours of meetings on Covid-19. I don’t know what they talked about, he and I talked gardens, but this disease is a real challenge no doubt.

I still plan on getting on a plane later this month for a domestic trip, but could revise that plan at any time. Meanwhile, I’m still working, just being more diligent about hygiene and being around people. I guess if Covid-19 sweeps into my area, I’ll hide out at home for a period and hope I didn’t pick it up before I realized it was circulating around, and if I get it, hope I don’t get the serious case. Sounds like it wouldn’t take much more to put the hospitals in a crisis.

None of us are guaranteed anything, not one more day, and I don’t blame anyone for this outbreak. If anything is to blame, it’s those wet markets they have in China. Sounds like we’d better stop going offshore to make so much of our critical supplies. I never understood how it’s so much cheaper to go halfway around the world to make something, put it on a ship and it still comes in under what can be done here at home. I know about labor costs, but still there must be more to it than that.

Stay healthy out there.
 

dynaflow

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Well it's all going down now with the President banning all flights into the U.S.A.from mainland Europe and Tom Hanks and his wife Rita Wilson being hospitalized with Covid19 after being diagnosed on the Gold Coast....he's currently there filming Australian director Baz Luhrmann's film about Elvis Presley.Mr.Hanks has Type 2 diabetes and I don't know if this has any bearing in relation to the Corona virus.
 

Matt4.0

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And the NBA just suspended the season after a player was diagnosed with it. Things are about to get crazy for a few months. Hopefully the stimulus Trump also announced tonight will provide some sort of buffer against the economic devastation forthcoming.
 

losthwy

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From Axios this morning.
Congress' in-house doctor told Capitol Hill staffers at a close-door meeting this week that he expects 70-150 million people in the U.S. — roughly a third of the country — to contract the coronavirus, two sources briefed on the meeting tell Axios.

Why it matters: That estimate, which is in line with other projections from health experts, underscores the potential seriousness of this outbreak even as the White House has been downplaying its severity in an attempt to keep public panic at bay.

Dr. Brian Monahan, the attending physician of the U.S. Congress, told Senate chiefs of staff, staff directors, administrative managers and chief clerks from both parties on Tuesday that they should prepare for the worst, and offered advice on how to remain healthy.

Between the lines: Forecasting the spread of a virus is difficult, and the range of realistic possibilities is wide.

But other estimates, including statistical modeling from Harvard epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch, have said that somewhere between 20% and 60% of adults worldwide might catch the virus.
Yes, but: These estimates include people who will get sick and make a full recovery, and many people will catch the virus without ever feeling seriously ill.

Monahan told staffers that about 80% of people who contract coronavirus will ultimately be fine, one of the sources said.
Monahan's office declined to comment.
 

yikes

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Sooo...
As I mentioned in a previous post, I had recently (end of Feb - beginning of March) traveled to Japan, for a family wedding. The day after we arrived, their government announced a similar shutdown of sport events, museums gathering places (like the Tokyo Skytree) as well as the entire school system. At that time they only had a few cases, in Yokohama and on a cruise ship. But they had something much bigger at stake: the 2020 Olympic Games.

Basically, that left the shrines, temples, malls and markets, and small restaurants open - that was it. I would say about 60% of the people on the streets were wearing masks, going up to about 80-90% on the subway. 100% of retail, hotel and restaurant staff wore masks (which are really more to prevent transmission rather than reception of the virus), and most wore gloves. Everywhere we went, there were bottles of hand sanitizer, and everyone would use it immediately upon entering a building, stepping up to the sales registers, etc. All the toilets have built-in bidets, and every public stall had sanitizing wipe dispensers to pre-clean the seat, handles, etc. All of this was in-place well before the CV-19 hit; it's just part of Japanese culture to be extra-sanitary.

Upon my return, my work asked me to telecommute for 2 weeks, or if I needed to come in, then do so at night. 12 days in, I've had no symptoms of any kind of illness, and I daresay, that others are probably more of a risk to me than I am to them. Nonetheless, I'm playing by the rules.

Oh, and one more thing. 2 weeks has given me some great opportunities to flyfish our in our local wilderness during the weekdays. And given that some epidemiologists are recommending limiting social contact by staying 10' away from other people, there's no more enjoyable way to achieve that than with the 10' euro nymph rod I got for Christmas!
 

Lewis Chessman

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I'll pop this here rather than on Ard's 'alternative' thread.
There was an article on Channel 4 News (UK) yesterday about a new rapid testing kit developed in Britain.
The web page doesn't say much more but the embedded TV article said that this is a test not for the C19 virus itself but for the antibodies the human immune system creates in reaction to infection.
Rather than taking days or hours it gives an accurate result in minutes.
Yesterday's news showed workers packing sachets of the test and stated that the boxes visible in the back of shot were destined for Vietnam.

I'd like to think that if we're sending kits to the Far East they are easily produced and will soon be widely available to the NHS and for export elsewhere.
Obviously, the ability to self-diagnose will be a major advance and the swiftness of the result will take a vast amount of pressure of any country's health services.
 

bonefish41

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The Golden Gopher is a learned public heath expert. His podcast was as he stated guesstimates with limited samples and he makes statements/observations, in part, based upon evidence of manufacturing concentrations in one country such as crash cart generic drugs only from China and India or IV bags from Puerto Rico and their Hurricane. Whilst his examples and statistics are compelling and simple to understand...the solutions are complex and go to the core of a free economy ...how to make crash cart generic drugs in multiple factories in USA and how to make IV bags in multiple factories...whatever the econ theory be... it is cost of manufacturing that influences location...so now a solution to the Golden Gopher's conundrum is to force drug/medical supply business entities to manufacture these products in USA at multiple plants by dictat of Public Health Commissar failure to do so means you don't sell any of their products in the rich US market OR the more enlightened, capitalistic approach economic incentives...either some exotic tax provisions or outright cash subsidies ...an incentive to profit...by making the stuff in the USA. Creating solutions for issues of public health ain't easy...certainly not as easy as identifying the issues
 
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