Do I need a sink tip?

carp and bass

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Hi everyone,
I have weight forward floating line on both my reels and think I may need an extra sink tip add on. I fish a lake for largemouth bass and northerns in a lake mainly about 15 ft deep. I mainly fish size 4 zonkers with a 8ft leader.
Do you people think I should get a sink tip attachment?
Thanks in advance,
Carp and bass
 

williamhj

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I'd get a sink tip. 15 ft is pretty deep. You could get something to add to your current line or check out the Orvis site. They have a sale going and a couple sinking lines down in the $30 range. Depending on what weight line you're looking for you could get a good deal.
 

siege

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Another option to consider would be a spare spool for your reel. Load it with a dedicated sinking line, or a sink tip, and have the versatility to fish where they're biting, as conditions change. You could accomplish the same thing with your second reel, but you might want to keep it set up as it is for use on another rod.
 

Ard

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I'm being serious saying this; why not drag the bottom using a spinning rig with the Crayfish and Leech flies and a medium size split shot. I mean if you really want to get on the bottom it would be easier with just mono and the flies as lures.

I was thinking maybe you were looking to get down 5 - 8 feet but when I think of all the work getting a sinking line out far enough to fish then the stripping in followed by the false casts to get it back out there........... If you really want to use your fly rod then I would get a full sinking line and put them down. As I said though it'll be some work if you're looking to touch the bottom.

Ard
 

Unknownflyman

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Carp and bass,

Pike look up, you don`t need to be that deep unless the water temps are very warm like late July and August. On the spring opener all the pike are within 20 feet of shore in shallow water that`s when you have a shot at truly giant pike consistently.

Sink tips can work but a good heavy pike fly and a long stiff leader is all you need.
 

ia_trouter

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The guys have given you good options to get the fly down. You shouldn't need to dredge bottom in the deepest water though. That's not where actively feeding pike generally hang out. If it's a good pike lake it is highly likely to have good weed cover. You'll want to strip a fly over top of them, or just outside of the break. And when you can, the early part of season as unknownflyman mentioned.
 

moucheur2003

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Another option to consider would be a spare spool for your reel. Load it with a dedicated sinking line, or a sink tip, and have the versatility to fish where they're biting, as conditions change. You could accomplish the same thing with your second reel, but you might want to keep it set up as it is for use on another rod.
This is what I do with my 5 and 6 weights. An extra spool loaded with a sink tip line.
 

silver creek

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In your case of fishing in a lake, I suggest a full sinking line of the appropriate sink rate. What follows is a general discussion of fishing streamers with floating, sink tip, full sinking, and Versileader type outfits,

When fishing streamers, there are 4 main methods that are used.

The first and most often used is to use a weighted streamer on a floating line with a standard leader. The weighted streamer sinks but on retrieve, the fly will rise. Also on streams the flow of the water on pulls the fly up when it is attached to a floating line. So whenever you fish a streamer on a floating line, you are compromising effectiveness for ease of fishing.

The second method is to use a sink tip lined. Sink tips are usually used to fish streamers on streams and rivers. They come with different lengths of the sinking portion of the fly line. The longer the sinking tip, the deeper the fly will be on the retrieve.

There are 3 reasons for using a sinking line and one reason not to.

The main reason is that the retrieve of the fly stays level.

The second is that you can use a shorter leader, in fact you can use a straight 2-3 foot length of monofilament or fluorocarbon depending on water clarity. The shorter section of mono serves two purposes. It keeps the fly at the level of the sinking tip AND a short section of straight leader is easier to cast when you have a bulky fly like a streamer.

The final reason is that the sinking tip is thinner and heavier so the line itself will be easier to cast and will drive the fly better than a floating line with a longer leader that is needed to get a streamer to sink to the level you want to fish.

The third option is the full sinking fly line. These fly lines can be used in streams or in lakes. Full sinking fly lines are preferable than sink tips for lake fishing because they can target a specific depth and keep the fly at that depth during the retrieve.

They have all the advantages of the sink tip as to a shorter leader and they are even easier to cast long distances. However, they are a pain to pick up for the next cast and must be retrieved even closer than a sink tip for so the angler can cast again.

Sinking fly lines are rated by number as to "Type" designated by a number from I to VII. The higher the number, the faster they sink. The sink rate is labeled in inches per second.

However, you can approximate the sink rate in feet for every 10 seconds, which is an easier to remember and use than the inches per second sink rate. For example, a Type I will sink at about 1 ft every 10 seconds, a Type II at 2 ft per 10 seconds, a Type III at 3 ft per 10 seconds, and so on up to type VII at 7 ft every 10 seconds. When fishing these lines just do 10 second count downs to get to the level you want to fish.

For example, if you are fishing a Type II line and want to fish at 3 feet, you would count to 15 seconds; if you had a Type III line, you would count to 10 seconds before beginning to retrieve the fly.

Although the conversion from inches per second to ft per 10 seconds is an approximation, it is much easier to calculate approximate time delay for the depth at which you want to fish. You need to realize that this sink rate is in still water and not running water.

In running water, the fly line is fixed at the rod tip. Any drag against the fly line by the flowing water will lift the fly line and prevent it sinking. Just as drag can prevent a nymph pattern from sinking very fast, drag will slow the sink rate or even prevent a sink tip/sinking fly line from sinking.

The cure for this is a mend that removes drag. To sink the streamer, you mend in the same direction that you would to prevent a dry fly from sinking. For example, if you are casting a sink tip up and across some faster water to the slower water next to the river bank, you should mend the fly line UPSTREAM to counter the drag on the fly line from the faster water.

Then when you think the fly is at the depth you want, mend DOWNSTREAM so the cast current catches the fly line. This will pull the fly toward you, presenting a side ways view of the streamer as it cross to lie directly downstream of you. This is an effective way to present a streamer to fish that you think are lying in front of or beside boulders, or just below the lip of a drop off.


Many fly fishers, especially beginners, do not realize that there is a need to mend line while fishing streamers in flowing water.

The final 4th option is to create a hybrid “sink tip” fly line by attaching a sinking Versileader or Polyleaderto a floating fly line.

Gorge Fly Shop Blog: Sink Tips, Polyleaders, Versileaders - A Buyer's Guide

Rather than buying these I create my own out of Cortland LC-13 coated lead core material.

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...question-about-sink-tip-lines.html#post646642

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...ons/360104-weight-line-ratios.html#post716132

http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...348177-cortland-mini-head-kit.html#post655006
 

ia_trouter

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I rarely disagree with you Silver but a full sinking line is probably not a good option in this situation for the following reasons.

1. This lake is 15ft deep. By mid June the weeds will be nearly to the surface. He'll spend the day picking weed if he throws where most of the feeding pike are with a full sinking line.

2. Of the last 1000 pike I have caught (literally 1000, because I targeted them for decades), easily 90% were caught within 4ft of the surface, probably 75%+ less than 2ft. Rest were caught on crankbaits fairly deep.

A sinktip line might be a better option, a weighted leader on a floating line probably even better because it is adjustable with the seasons and weed growth. Other than early season, feeding pike are in the weeds and you will have to stay just off the weeds. The large pike, being cool water fish, almost without exception will suspend deeper and are generally lethargic when the water temps get hot. A hard way to go on the fly.
 

ia_trouter

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Thanks so much but I am trying to imitate a wacky worm for bass also which is fished on the bottom. Does this affect your opinions?
It probably does. Are we talking about hooking a Senko (plastic worm) in the middle and then a very slow vertical drop to the bottom? If so see Hardyreels recommendation. Not knocking the technique. It really kills the largemouth. I use a baitcaster setup with about a 6 1/2 ft rod. Spinning rod works very well too. It's pretty much jigging and I don't have a flyfishing recommendation. If you are talking about something different please explain.
 

slowdown

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I think having a sink tip or intermediate sink is a great option and having those on extra spools or reels is a versatile way of fishing.

If you are planning on running at that 15ft mark a lot, and you are talking about stripping streamers or crawdad flies etc. then I would do the sink tip on an extra spool.

If you are going to "drop shot" or do more of a "wacky worm" like you are saying (assuming with a fly" then no, you don't. One of the techniques used in stillwater trout fishing is to find the bottom and either free float or bounce the fly off the bottom. Some of the depths used there are up to 20' deep.

In the spring, I attach forceps to the leader and drop them into the section I plan to fish. From there, when Im fishing callibaetis or midges, I set my slip indicator so the flies are about a foot off the bottom and free float.

I use the same basic technique on a few bass ponds as well. I measure the depth and get the leader correct, then I bounce streamers, worm imitations, wolley buggers etc. off the bottom and usually in front of pre-spawn bass.

I do however always have the clear camo sinking line that I use on those lakes too when this doesn't work.

Besides, don't you just want to have it anyway? New spool? New line to play with? Treat yourself - its 2015!!
 

these go to 11

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I carry a sink tip or intermediate line on a spare spool in my pack. I've never regretted having it there. You never know if you'll end up somewhere where it could be helpful.
 

carp and bass

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Thank you very much everyone, I already have two reels with floating line so Im thinking that I am gonna put a fast sink add on to my bass reel.
Thanks again,
Carp and bass
 

silver creek

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I rarely disagree with you Silver but a full sinking line is probably not a good option in this situation for the following reasons.

1. This lake is 15ft deep. By mid June the weeds will be nearly to the surface. He'll spend the day picking weed if he throws where most of the feeding pike are with a full sinking line.

2. Of the last 1000 pike I have caught (literally 1000, because I targeted them for decades), easily 90% were caught within 4ft of the surface, probably 75%+ less than 2ft. Rest were caught on crankbaits fairly deep.

A sinktip line might be a better option, a weighted leader on a floating line probably even better because it is adjustable with the seasons and weed growth. Other than early season, feeding pike are in the weeds and you will have to stay just off the weeds. The large pike, being cool water fish, almost without exception will suspend deeper and are generally lethargic when the water temps get hot. A hard way to go on the fly.
I guess we will agree to disagree. I think you assumed I was suggesting a fast sinking fly line. Hopefully, when you read my response, we can agree once more.

In my defense, my first sentence was, "In your case of fishing in a lake, I suggest a full sinking line of the appropriate sink rate." Then I clearly noted that sinking fly line are available from type I to type VII.

I think a Type I intermediate sinking line will address the problem of weeds and a second faster sinking line can get deep when needed.

In your case of fishing in a lake, I suggest a full sinking line of the appropriate sink rate. What follows is a general discussion of fishing streamers with floating, sink tip, full sinking, and Versileader type outfits……

Sinking fly lines are rated by number as to "Type" designated by a number from I to VII. The higher the number, the faster they sink. The sink rate is labeled in inches per second.

However, you can approximate the sink rate in feet for every 10 seconds, which is an easier to remember and use than the inches per second sink rate. For example, a Type I will sink at about 1 ft every 10 seconds, a Type II at 2 ft per 10 seconds, a Type III at 3 ft per 10 seconds, and so on up to type VII at 7 ft every 10 seconds. When fishing these lines just do 10 second count downs to get to the level you want to fish.

A type 1 or intermediate sinking fly line sinks at a rate of 1 inch per second and actually sinks much slower than the tip of a sink tip fly line. The intermediate line is probably the most popular sinking fly line for lakes and reservoirs because it allows the angler to target the first foot or so under the surface. And intermediate sinkers can be purchased as CLEAR fly lines.

So the type of sinking line is up to the angler and it need not be a fast sinker. The angler can chose one or several sinking lines for different situations. In this way the multiple types of sinking lines is similar to the different tapers of a floating line.

If weeds are a concern, a type I (intermediate) sinking fly line is a better choice than a sink tip in my opinion.

Dave Whitlock calls the intermediate sinking fly line his secret weapon.

My 'Secret' Fly Line - Fly Fisherman

"The main purpose of intermediate lines is to make it more difficult for fish to see the line underwater. Before I began using clear lines I often spooked whole schools of landlocked stripers when my opaque, solid-colored lines passed over them. I easily tripled my striper hook-ups when I began using clear intermediate lines.

Perhaps a more important advantage on windy days is that intermediate lines are narrower in diameter per line weight. In other words, an 8-weight intermediate line is narrower and less wind resistant than a 8-weight floating line. In windy conditions, a thin intermediate line is easier to cast long distances than a more bulky floating line.

In stillwaters a slow-sinking fly line allows for more precise subsurface, shallow- to moderate-depth fly control. You can fish in just a few inches of water over a weed bed, or in deeper water you can count down and allow the fly to sink deeper."
"



Lake Fishing Equipment

"For most lake anglers getting started, I recommend two fly lines: the first is a high quality, high-visibility, weight-forward tapered, floating fly line.

The second must-have fly line for stillwaters is a clear or “camo” slow sinking (intermediate or Type I) model. Sink rates are usually designated with a Roman numeral from I to VI, Type I or “intermediate density” being the slowest, sinking at a rate of between ¾” to 1 ½” per second, and Type VI the fastest, dropping at 8’ – 10” per second. If you add a third line to your arsenal, make it a Type III density-compensated one, in a dark color.




Choosing Fly Line

"Intermediate (I) lines

These are a little denser than water so they sink slowly to present a fly just below the water's surface. These lines work well in shallow, weedy lakes and in choppy waters where you want your line to stay below the choppiness."



Denny Rickards interview | Feature Article | Westfly


"Reaching the proper depth and staying at it"--how does a lake angler do that?

Proper line choice is crucial. Most of the time, you need a full-sinking line, not a floater or a sink-tip. An intermediate line--one that sinks very slowly--is the right choice 80% of the time. Because it sinks slowly, it will hold you at the right depth longer than other lines.
 
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