Dumb question about sink tip lines

zhaddock

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Do you just connect the "sink tip" to the WFF line you already have on your reel or is a sink tip line a whole new line into itself that you would load on to the spool?
 
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mridenour

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You can buy a dedicated sink tip line like your WFF or you can buy assorted tips to use instead.
 

mcnerney

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You can do it either way. They sell individual sink tip sections or you can buy a kit with 3-5 different weighted sink tips that just connect to your floating line, or you can buy a dedicated line that has an integrated sink tip attached. When I lived in Alaska I built my own, buy a full sinking line, cut sections off, tie loops on both ends and then attached to a floating fly line. That way I could build the weight I wanted into the sinking tip, usually the heaviest I could get.

Larry
 

akruss

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It's easier to purchase whatever sink tip lines you would like to fish and put them on separate spools. I generally wind up with a floating line and medium and fast sink tips mounted on one reel with two extra spools. I used a Rio "Versi Tip" on a favorite 7 weight for large trout and small (red, silver, pink and dog) salmon and it worked out really well. The Versi Tip comes with a running line (the back end of a floating weight forward line) and four tips (floating, clear intermediate, medium sink and fast sink). The 15' tips loop onto the running line and there is no need for extra spools. The fly in the ointment is that the Versi Tip sells for about a bill and a half. I've tried cutting sinking line and making my own sink tips but frankly spent a lot of time and generally came up with marginal systems. Just my experience - your mileage may vary.
 
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Liphookedau

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Larry has covered it quite well as any of The Setups he has mentioned I find works well.
Even though I had used Sink Tip Lines the First time I used a Sink Tip which is attached to The Line I was Fishing for Silvers a few years ago in A Lake in Alaska & it was a length of Chuck & Duck Fly Line with Loops about 6Ft long since then I now buy all my Sink Tips of various weights in a Wallet on Ebay.
I use The different weight & length Sections because I don't have to carry extra Lines,Reels or Spools around the only difference I initially found & I suppose I still do they are a bit Different to cast.
Brian.
 

silver creek

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You need to decide what you want to do with the sink tip and how often you will use the sink tip. That will help you decide whether to by a dedicated system with different sink tip fly lines or a Polyleader/Verisleader system. It makes no sense to spend a lot of money for a system when you will only use it infrequently.

I rarely use sink tips so I have come up with the least expensive option. I make own swappable sink tips that I add to my floating fly line.

You too can make your own loop to loop sink tip connections. You make them in various lengths to convert your floating line into a variable sink tip. The longer the tip, the deeper and faster it will sink. They do tend to hinge during the cast but this is the cheapest method to get a variable sink tip system. I carry my sink tips in a small zip lock bag in my vest.

I use homemade braided mono loop connectors and buy Cortland LC-13 coated lead core line cut to various lengths for the sink tip. LC 13 sinks at 8-9" per second. A type 6 sinking line has a nominal ski rate of 6-7"/sec so the LC-13 is a dense fast sinker.

Cortland LC-13 Lead Core (30 feet) : FishUSA.com



I prefer to make my own variation by "converting" my floating fly line into a "sink tip" fly line by adding a sections of Cortland LC13 coated lead core material.

I cut the LC 13 into different lengths of 12", 18", 24", 30", and 36". Then I whip finish braided mono loop to loop connectors on each end of the LC 13. The whip finish and the overlap is coated with Pliobond flexible cement.



I can connect the LC13 to the end of my fly line and it acts a sink tip. I form my own loop to loop connectors out of Cortland Braided mono running line which comes in 30 and 50 lb test.



Feather-Craft Fly Fishing | Fly Fishing Rods, Reels, Waders, Flies, Fly Tying Materials | Sage Rods | Simms Waders | Since 1955

Dan Blanton has a method posted for making your own braided loop connectors for the system:

Getting Looped | Dan Blanton » Fly Fishing Resources

If you don't want to make your own braided loop mono connectors, you can buy a complete kit from Cortland. It is probably your best bet unless you need to make braided mono connectors for a fly line to leader connection. Ditch the shrink tube from the kit and whip finish and coat the ends of the braided loop to LC-13.



Cortland Slip-On Leader Loops : FishUSA.com

I carry the multiple length sections 12", 18", 24", and 36" LC-13 with braided mono loops in zip lock bags. I loop to loop connect the lead core to the floating fly line and then a short 2-3 feet of straight mono to the streamer.

Here is an article on Sink Tips, poly Leaders and Versileaders.

Gorge Fly Shop Blog: Sink Tips, Polyleaders, Versileaders - A Buyer's Guide
 
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zhaddock

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So, can I use the interchangeable sink tips with my wff as is or, do I have to cut some off the tip of it?

You need to decide what you want to do with the sink tip and how often you will use the sink tip. That will help you decide whether to by a dedicated system with different sink tip fly lines or a Polyleader/Verisleader system. It makes no sense to spend a lot of money for a system when you will only use it infrequently.

I rarely use sink tips so I have come up with the least expensive option. I make own swappable sink tips that I add to my floating fly line.

You too can make your own loop to loop sink tip connections. You make them in various lengths to convert your floating line into a variable sink tip. The longer the tip, the deeper and faster it will sink. They do tend to hinge during the cast but this is the cheapest method to get a variable sink tip system. I carry my sink tips in a small zip lock bag in my vest.

I use homemade braided mono loop connectors and buy Cortland LC-13 coated lead core line cut to various lengths for the sink tip. LC 13 sinks at 8-9" per second. A type 6 sinking line has a nominal ski rate of 6-7"/sec so the LC-13 is a dense fast sinker.



Cortland LC-13 Lead Core (30 feet) : FishUSA.com

I prefer to make my own variation by "converting" my floating fly line into a "sink tip" fly line by adding a sections of Cortland LC13 coated lead core material.

I cut the LC 13 into different lengths of 12", 18", 24", 30", and 36". Then I whip finish braided mono loop to loop connectors on each end of the LC 13. The whip finish and the overlap is coated with Pliobond flexible cement.



I can connect the LC13 to the end of my fly line and it acts a sink tip. I form my own loop to loop connectors out of Cortland Braided mono running line which comes in 30 and 50 lb test.



Feather-Craft Fly Fishing | Fly Fishing Rods, Reels, Waders, Flies, Fly Tying Materials | Sage Rods | Simms Waders | Since 1955

Dan Blanton has a method posted for making your own braided loop connectors for the system:

Getting Looped | Dan Blanton » Fly Fishing Resources

If you don't want to make your own braided loop mono connectors, you can buy a complete kit from Cortland. It is probably your best bet unless you need to make braided mono connectors for a fly line to leader connection. Ditch the shrink tube from the kit and whip finish and coat the ends of the braided loop to LC-13.



Cortland Slip-On Leader Loops : FishUSA.com

I carry the multiple length sections 12", 18", 24", and 36" LC-13 with braided mono loops in zip lock bags. I loop to loop connect the lead core to the floating fly line and then a short 2-3 feet of straight mono to the streamer.

Here is an article on Sink Tips, poly Leaders and Versileaders.

Gorge Fly Shop Blog: Sink Tips, Polyleaders, Versileaders - A Buyer's Guide
 

silver creek

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So, can I use the interchangeable sink tips with my wff as is or, do I have to cut some off the tip of it?
You do not need to cut of any of the WF floating line.

If you have a WF floating fly line with a welded loop on the end, you loop to loop connect the LC13 section to the end of the fly line and the mono leader to the other end of the LC13.

Variable lengths of LC13 determine how deep and fast your LC13 sink tip will sink.

If the fly line does not have a loop, nail knot a mono loop to the end of your fly line and loop to loop connect the LC13 to that. Use a stiff mono that is about or just under the dimeter of the fly line tip. I use 25 lb test maxima Chameleon (0.20") for 5 wt fly lines. I tie a perfection loop on one end and nail knot the other end to the fly line. The shorter this section of mono is, the more efficient it will be as a loop connector. I make mine about 4" long.
 

ts47

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You do not need to cut of any of the WF floating line.

If you have a WF floating fly line with a welded loop on the end, you loop to loop connect the LC13 section to the end of the fly line and the mono leader to the other end of the LC13.

Variable lengths of LC13 determine how deep and fast your LC13 sink tip will sink.

If the fly line does not have a loop, nail knot a mono loop to the end of your fly line and loop to loop connect the LC13 to that. Use a stiff mono that is about or just under the dimeter of the fly line tip. I use 25 lb test maxima Chameleon (0.20") for 5 wt fly lines. I tie a perfection loop on one end and nail knot the other end to the fly line. The shorter this section of mono is, the more efficient it will be as a loop connector. I make mine about 4" long.
Silver,

Would it make more sense to add the sinking section in the middle of a leader? I'm thinking Fly line > 3 or so feet of mono > sinking section > step down mono > tippet > fly?
 

Rip Tide

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Silver,

Would it make more sense to add the sinking section in the middle of a leader? I'm thinking Fly line > 3 or so feet of mono > sinking section > step down mono > tippet > fly?
A rig like that would be very difficult to cast
I have quite a few LC-13 heads including some short ones that I attach between the leader and tippet
Those are actually easier to cast than a leader full of split shot, but a larger head in the middle of your leader would be a mess.

One rig that I use often is a 6ft LC-!3 lead head on a full sink line. Very effective and surprisingly easy to cast.
 

looper34

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The "Sink tip" that I use is a different line that you put on a spare spool and carry with you. I carry a floating line with a (Mono) nylon leader and tippet and a sink tip line with a Fluro leader and tippet and can make the switch if I need to and I'm satisfied with the result. I hated casting my "floating" line with weight added to it (to make it sink) because it always got fouled up on itself. I'm sure there are plenty of options but you seem like you're just starting out and keeping it simple might be the way to go.
 

silver creek

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Silver,

Would it make more sense to add the sinking section in the middle of a leader? I'm thinking Fly line > 3 or so feet of mono > sinking section > step down mono > tippet > fly?
+1 to what Rip said.

You need mass to turn over mass. The end of a fly line has more mass than the the leader. So if you were to put the LC after a section of leader, the fly line would turn over the mono, but then the mono would have less mass than the fly line and would have a harder time turning over the LC-13. You would get severe hinging of the cast or the cast would collapse.

If you want a fly like a streamer to stay at the lever of the LC-13 rather than ride higher in the water column, put a short 2-3 ft section of straight mono from the LC-13 to the fly.

If you use a long section of LC-13, you can simulate the Brook's method of nymphing. The Brook's method is used for very fast waters and the modified sink tip will not get down as fast, but it will work in waters that are not so fast as to require the full Brook's method. You have to play around with it to see when it should be used.

http://www.southeastflyfishingforum.com/forum/weighted-line-t41524.html?p=352046

https://books.google.com/books?id=c...BR#v=onepage&q=brooks nymphing method&f=false
 

Rip Tide

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My LC-13 lead heads have whipped finished loops and depending on the day I carry different sizes from 6 inches to 18 feet
I also have a few "store bought"



 

silver creek

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The "Sink tip" that I use is a different line that you put on a spare spool and carry with you. I carry a floating line with a (Mono) nylon leader and tippet and a sink tip line with a Fluro leader and tippet and can make the switch if I need to and I'm satisfied with the result. I hated casting my "floating" line with weight added to it (to make it sink) because it always got fouled up on itself. I'm sure there are plenty of options but you seem like you're just starting out and keeping it simple might be the way to go.
I agree that a second fly line with an integrated sink tip is ALWAYS the best way to go.

Having said that, the LC-13 sink method is a quick and dirty method that allows you to carry a selection of exchangeable sink tips in a small zip lock bag. No extra spool or deciding how long a sink tip fly line you want to buy. Plus the LC-13 section can be used with your 5 wt line, or 6 wt, or 7 wt, or 8 wt, etc.

The choice is buying a single sink tip line of a single weight and extra spool that will give you the optimum performance vs carrying several lengths of LC-13 that won't work as well as a dedicated sink tip; but will work across a number of line weights and offer different sink rates according to the lengths you use. It is not as elegant as having an integrated sink tip BUT it is WAAAY better than not having an exchangeable sink tip at all.
 

ts47

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Thank you for all the info Silver and Rip!!

I get what you are saying.

One last question: How do you whip finish the loop at the end? I've nail knotted loops, but haven't whip finished one before.

Todd
 

Rip Tide

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One last question: How do you whip finish the loop at the end? I've nail knotted loops, but haven't whip finished one before.
It's the same knot as you'd use to whip finish a fly... I do this to my fly lines too.

Set up your fly tying bobbin by wrapping a couple of wraps of thread around one of it's legs. This is so that the thread does not come off the spool too easily
Make make the loop in your line.
Horizontally, hold the thread and loop in place with one hand and the standing line in the other. Then swing the bobbin around (hopefully) making controlled, tight wraps.
When you have good coverage, manually make a series of whip finishes.
....and then do it again. I always do this 2 or even 3 times
Use good strong thread, not thin fly tying thread
I use either kevlar, or nylon rod wrapping thread. Whatever I have spooled up.
Cover the wraps with a flexible cement. I use GOOP!
 

silver creek

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Looks like Rip bends the LC-13 over and whips the end to close the loop. I use braided loop connectors and whip finish the end of the braided loop connectors and then coat with Pliobond.

You first need to place the end of the LC 13 into the braided loop connector and pull the connector so it acts as Chinese finger trap to grab the LC-13. Keep feeding and pulling until you get the end of the LC-13 to the front end of the connector.

Look at the video below to see how he feed the end of the fly line into the connector and pulls and feeds. Ignore the plastic sleeve.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6ZVZn2sn-0[/ame]

Now that you have the LC-13 in the braided loop, you need to secure the open end of the braided loop with a whip finish and coat with Pliobond. Go to the section of this next video where he uses a fly tying bobbin and thread to whip finish and coat with Pliobond.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp9CEiMiREE[/ame]
 

myt1

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On a somewhat related topic

I'm hope this isn't a thread-hijack.

Particularly if the conditions of the river are changing, depth-wise, what are the pros and cons of simply adding split shot to a floating line as conditions dictate?

Thanks.
 

Rip Tide

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Re: On a somewhat related topic

I'm hope this isn't a thread-hijack.

Particularly if the conditions of the river are changing, depth-wise, what are the pros and cons of simply adding split shot to a floating line as conditions dictate?
The pros would be that the majority of the time, adding and/or removing split shot is the best way to adjust to different water depths and velocities
The cons would be that split shot is hard to cast

Full sinking lines, integrated lines, sink tips, and lead heads all have their place in still water and for fishing streamers.
A floating line with weight on the leader is nearly always better for nymphing

... and I wouldn't worry too much about hi-jacking a thread that's a year and a half old. ;)
 

JoJer

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I used to carry a spare spool with a full sink line. Then I had a sink tip line on the spare spool. I seldom used either one- I just didn't fish water big enough to need them-most of the time I could get as deep as needed with split shot.
Eventually, I cut a 6' and a 12' section off the back end of the full sink line and carry them in a vest pocket. They still see very little use. They were made, as above, with whipped loops made by folding the end of the line over, whipping the loop and gluing. I had a tube of Shoo-Goo that split and caused the contents partially cure. I could pinch off a bit, roll it onto the wraps and smooth it out ( so the loops run through the guides easily) without it sticking to my fingers, but it stayed on the wraps just fine.
 
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