Factory Loops; why cut them off?

Acheron

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Nice. I change fly line out every year. One of the perks of being 5 minutes away from world class trout waters all the time.;)
I'll be there one day! For now I have to settle on a little longer of a drive than you.

Not to derail the thread too far but...
Even through the 100+ days on the water years my line lasts 5 years. I don't streamer fish so that could be part of it. Why do you change it every year?
 

Ippyroy

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I'll be there one day! For now I have to settle on a little longer of a drive than you.

Not to derail the thread too far but...
Even through the 100+ days on the water years my line lasts 5 years. I don't streamer fish so that could be part of it. Why do you change it every year?
The tips start to sink. That was before I learned about needle nail knots. I do throw a lot of streamers. Huge browns around here.
 

Acheron

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The tips start to sink. That was before I learned about needle nail knots. I do throw a lot of streamers. Huge browns around here.
This just made me think about something. You are cutting the loop off, therefore comprising the line. Then you throw a lot of streamers which are pulling the line under the water. My unscientific observation would be that the compromised line is then soaking up water at an accelerated rate over the year.

For you, this might not matter at all because you will replace it every year. For someone who fishes less often leaving the loop on could be the difference between success or frustration their next time out. Innnnteresting!!
 

Ippyroy

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This just made me think about something. You are cutting the loop off, therefore comprising the line. Then you throw a lot of streamers which are pulling the line under the water. My unscientific observation would be that the compromised line is then soaking up water at an accelerated rate over the year.

For you, this might not matter at all because you will replace it every year. For someone who fishes less often leaving the loop on could be the difference between success or frustration their next time out. Innnnteresting!!
The issue was before I learned the needle nail knot. The L2L connection would cut into the line. I would spend about 200 days on the river and I'd have many days of hooking 20 plus fish. That puts a lot of pressure on the line. I also catch a few trees. Now the line no longer sinks more than the first inch. I use RIO Gold InTouch. SA was the worse for me. It wouldn't last the entire season.
 

trev

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Unless the line is badly cracked over a couple feet of the tip, the most likely reason for sinking is dirt. there are reasons why fly lines don't really soak up an appreciable amount of water, but even if it did water does not sink in water or there would be no top to a lake. I only fish about 50 times a year any more but I own lines that are maybe 20 years old that still float.

eta- in this thread SC gives some insight about sinking of lines- http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?/topic/81931-floating-fly-line-not-floating/
 

Ippyroy

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Unless the line is badly cracked over a couple feet of the tip, the most likely reason for sinking is dirt. there are reasons why fly lines don't really soak up an appreciable amount of water, but even if it did water does not sink in water or there would be no top to a lake. I only fish about 50 times a year any more but I own lines that are maybe 20 years old that still float.
Catching the trees don't help lines. I get a ton of abrasions from fishing very fast water in a lot of rocks. I basically destroy my line. Replacing it is also the only way I ever get to see my backing.:D
 

Ippyroy

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The main reason for the needle nail knot is because I do have to bring in the L2L connection through the guides. I have thrown 20 foot leaders for the gulpers on Hegbon. The factory loop will snag and barbless hooks allow the fish to get off most every time.
 

trev

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Ippyroy

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I've never thought the needle difference was worth the effort, but I don't use loops and I do coat the knot with flexible cement. most of my fishing these days is with short ~7' leaders, but, there was a time that I used 15'-20'+
I try to use shorter leaders. The gulpers are a challenge. You can't get too close and they are super skittish. I've been out there with friends who catch one every single cast and they can lay down their line so softly. They usually have around 10 - 15 foot leaders. I am nowhere near that level of casting. One day hopefully. On the river I stay under 10 feet unless tight lining.
 

Acheron

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I try to use shorter leaders. The gulpers are a challenge. You can't get too close and they are super skittish. I've been out there with friends who catch one every single cast and they can lay down their line so softly. They usually have around 10 - 15 foot leaders. I am nowhere near that level of casting. One day hopefully. On the river I stay under 10 feet unless tight lining.
Yup, once you hit 12ft the cast changes in my opinion. I've gone to that for super spooky fish because you are absolutely correct, boy can one lay it down with a flutter!
 

alfaromeo

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i remove all the loops from my fly lines.... been fly fishing for almost 45 years.. and allways use nail knots, just like my grandfather taught me to use.. classic is always better.. lots of history on a good nail knot
 
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sweetandsalt

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I've long been anti-loop and pro knots. However, I have been using factory welded loops now for a while which facilities my usage of Braided and Furled leader designs, often 12 - 16'. I do, as stated often before, mechanically reinforce the loops front and back with a multi turn Nail Knot and coat them lightly with UV resin. Excellent transfer of energy and not overly bulky.

T21 008 Nail Knot Leader Loops s.jpg
 

pnc

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Twice I had loop problems when they first started appearing on line. Have not trusted them since.
Years before they started to appear on factor lines. I was using loop connections for leader to fly line. Making my own loops In fly lines then whip finishing with thread & bobbin. Takes about a whole minute to do. Ok, 2 mins if I light up a cigarette when I stop to let out more thread. And never have I had a problem with the loops.

I was shown how at, A&A Outfitter. In Blakely, Pa. by, Lefty Kreh. He was there doing a demonstration. I was fortunate to meet him there. And see him a few more times over the next few years. Also clued me in on splicing heads to running line. In effect making custom lines. Instead of loop connections, shooting heads.
 

proudscotguy_84

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I have been thinking this as it was said in another thread where the loop to loop connection the front foot of my floating line sinks I wonder if this would fix the problem.

My issue with doing this is I change leaders to suit the conditions. Do most of you nail knot your leaders onto you flyline for specific applications (nymphing for example) and use other rod reel setups for others
 

pnc

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Loop to loop for fly line to leader makes changing leaders quicker than nail knoting. I started out with knots but every weight has been changed over. Starting with heavier lines. Did for a time find nail knots on 5w and under reels but use them lest. Now all are switched over.
 

trev

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I'm never going to understand the changing leaders argument, a leader butt will likely wear out a new fly line, if cast reasonably well. Mine, because of being stepped on or cast into trees get changed once every few years, or more often because the fly line coating is cracking near the end.
 
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