glossary

[trev]

ah, well, every rod I ever held since 1976 was switch rod then, tho they didn't get much overhead use.
My favorite switch this week is a 7 1/2' 'glass rod built in Denver about 1970 I guess. With the present flooding and winter just around the bend I should use one a little longer, but that shorty is just so comfortable.

 

[flav]

There may not be an online glossary of spey terms, but there are great books on the subject that lay it all out for you. Heck, there are even books on single hand spey casting, Simon Gawesworth's for instance.

Spey isn't new, it's been around for centuries. In the last 30 years there has been a lot of new techniques and equipment developed, but it all still comes down to a change of direction roll cast. You could probably get by with a DT line and an upstream and a downstream anchored cast and do just fine. No need to know what a wombat cast is or what underhand casting is, but if you become interested in spey you'll run across odd terms and techniques from time to time.

I feel spey is no different than single hand fly fishing, there are a lot of casts, equipment, and terminology that the uninitiated have trouble grasping at first. I know I was lost when I moved west and talked to guys who spoke about bugs using their latin names, tippet in X sizes instead of pound test, and rods with different modulus of graphite. Eventually it all made sense and now I speak that language too. Spey is just a different dialect.

 

[trev]

In the last 20? years the American language has changed the meaning of many words and invented new words for old things, actually reinventing wheel under many different names just get Branding rights. When I read bass fishing sites, I find myself searching out word after word only to find that it is a brand name for something I had learned and abandoned fifty years ago. Internet communication has everyone talking in buzz words and acronyms.
I have avoided reading anything about spey of scagit simply because it gets tiresome searching every third word. My thoughts are, if a new kid is inundated with gibberish words and vague terminology he will go away, maybe that's what some want? idk, hence my question about hoods and initiation.
"It's just another dialect" is exactly why a glossary is needed, or a digital interpreter.
I'm an old guy, I know how to fish, I know how to read and I can parse most of what ever I read, but, I don't like to guess and I doubt the new kid will bother to.
What I'm seeing is that a slew of these words are used to describe parts of the cast when they appear to describe differing casts. Yes you can do well with DT and the level line actually does even better. Front taper is for delicate delivery of overhead casts, it is actually detrimental to roll casting in that the reduced contact area develops less load and has greater slip tendency, imo.

The X diameter is a lot older than I am and not many other things are, if you had learned to fly fish in the east (I did) you would be familiar with diameter sizes, until after WW2 about 1950 leaders were not made of synthetic materials, and braided horse hair nor extruded worm gut has consistent test breakage but can be in consistent diameters, often expressed in letter form. Fly lines to thread all had diameter designations. The only people I've heard use pound test to describe leaders or tippets were people that transitioned from casting or spinning, but that may not be true every where. What will be true everywhere is diameter is more important than test when trying to get a limp tippet or reduced visibility leader. I have 6X tippet in 4 or 5 differing pound test and all work ~equally, but some 6# line is much bigger or smaller than other 6# test, and so not all will work equally well.

 

[Ard]

From my own litany I offer two simple words and definitions.

1. When you execute the cast and hear a 'Poof' sound then see that the cast has no energy and falls short. Poof means you were not sufficiently anchored. There can be several causes for this; too fast on your over the shoulder rotation - too high with the rod during the final forward stroke. Hearing a Poof should be enough to cause you to give thought to the cause and then make adjustments. This problem is commonly known as the 'Blown Anchor'.

Eliminating the Poof can sometimes be achieved by slowing the stroke or lowering the rod thus lowering the rod tip during the casting stroke.

2. You go into the forward stroke to launch the cast and you hear a loud 'Slurp' sound and like the Poof your cast has no great energy. The line and tip / fly were too deeply anchored or there is simply too much line on the water in an anchored position. This problem is known as 'Stuck Anchor'. Ways to solve the stuck anchor include speeding up the timing between your sweeping the line into anchor position and the final forward cast stroke or shorting the amount of line outside the rod tip. Sometimes people will encounter the sticking anchor due to length of their sink tip, long & heavy tips require a much more aggressive casting cadence.

Another common cause for the stuck anchor would be that the angler has failed to strip in 100% of that thin running / shooting line back into the rod guides. I don't own a rod line combo that will cast well having 4 or more foot of my running line out the rod tip when I make a cast.

There are better ways to define those 2 things I'm sure but those are how I explain the 2 problems to beginners and they seem to remember.

Here's a bonus tip .......... If you are casting and there exists a whole lot of 'Swish' or 'Swishing Noise' there is a distinct possibility that your strokes are too long. The swishing sound created by the rod actually cutting through the air fast enough to make a loud sound in many cases indicates a casting stroke that is too long and being overpowered. Often this means the caster isn't getting proper anchor and is attempting to correct this by using more speed and power.

My very best casts whether short or long, those which are very accurate all come off the water nearly silently and others may notice this same thing.

 

[trev]

I do. But not so much since the ears got older.

 

[flav]

Yes you can do well with DT and the level line actually does even better. Front taper is for delicate delivery of overhead casts, it is actually detrimental to roll casting in that the reduced contact area develops less load and has greater slip tendency, imo.

I have to somewhat disagree. Look at the taper of pretty much any longer belly spey line or scandi head and you'll see a long front taper and most of the "mass in the ass". This is also true for single hand roll casting lines like triangle tapers, delta tapers, and the single hand spey lines. The heavy back section loads the rod and the long front taper gives smooth turnover. You don't have to worry about reduced contact or slippage, when properly done you're only going to have a foot or two of line on the surface, and sometimes your leader is all that's touching the surface and anchoring your cast.
Now if you're talking skagit heads and sustained anchor casts with heavy tips or flies, then that's a different story. Even then, the final forward cast is made with minimal line, often just the sink tip, touching the water.

 

[trev]

I stand corrected. It can't be done.
Would you say that if using a 7.5' rod ?

Maybe my style isn't similar to spey/scandi/skagit after all, although many of the motions are similar, I don't believe my "anchor" is actually stationary and I often have many feet of line contact. Over half the cast maybe.

Well at least some of the vocabulary is now in one place for newbies to find. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Bigfly]

Trev, I can and do fish SH spey on my short sticks when on creek waters......but cannot throw like I do with an 11 ft rod.
But I do love using a snap-T with a dry fly on a short rod.....everyone should try this.......no more silly overhand casts......I think of it as the only trickle down method that works.

Jim

 

[trev]

Jim, try a haul. Play with having the dloop on the water to the upstream side and extending line as the cast goes out. A rod that is full flex but with a fast strong mid works best for me. A 5wt graphite works best for me with a 7wt. line, because it flexes deeper.

 

[Bigfly]

I have had a haul for a very long time....
Fishing the Spey it's not needed.
All my casts are on the water....
That is the signature of water anchored casts. Work on it enough, and the pesky overhand/haul phase will pass. Long casts in front good....long casts behind bad....
If more dry fly guys tried snap-t, they'd never go back to losing flies in the bushes.
I mostly fish SH Spey on an 11 ft switch. My water is not that big, but the fish might be, and there are always bushes or bank behind, so I like spey style here.
Only time I overhand cast/haul with that rod, is fishing a dry around 70-80ft.
That happens a couple hatches a year.
Otherwise, it's waterload, roll cast, and snap-t for me, with a streamer, a bobber, or a dry.

Jim

 

[ia_trouter]

I have had a haul for a very long time....
Fishing the Spey it's not needed.
All my casts are on the water....
That is the signature of water anchored casts. Work on it enough, and the pesky overhand/haul phase will pass. Long casts in front good....long casts behind bad....
If more dry fly guys tried snap-t, they'd never go back to losing flies in the bushes.
I mostly fish SH Spey on an 11 ft switch. My water is not that big, but the fish might be, and there are always bushes or bank behind, so I like spey style here.
Only time I overhand cast/haul with that rod, is fishing a dry around 70-80ft.
That happens a couple hatches a year.
Otherwise, it's waterload, roll cast, and snap-t for me, with a streamer, a bobber, or a dry.

Jim

I have some (many) questions but I'll start another thread. I wouldn't want to cause a NAFFF thread to go off topic for the first time.

 

[Unknownflyman]

I get asked a lot why use the circle spey VS the snap T and that answer is that the circle spey is used for heavy flies with eyes or cones, to make sure the fly clears your expensive new spey rod.

Snap T- I use with unweighted tube flies and classics, I have used it with heavy flies but I am very careful and with my beginner spey rod I bounced a number of eyed intruders off that rod, hard. its still good though, I`m not quite so sure a new modern rod could handle that without breakage.

 

[Bigfly]

I get asked a lot why use the circle spey VS the snap T and that answer is that the circle spey is used for heavy flies with eyes or cones, to make sure the fly clears your expensive new spey rod.

Snap T- I use with unweighted tube flies and classics, I have used it with heavy flies but I am very careful and with my beginner spey rod I bounced a number of eyed intruders off that rod, hard. its still good though, I`m not quite so sure a new modern rod could handle that without breakage.

Unknown is once again spot on.
I shift between circle and snap-t without thinking. I can say from personal pain/expirience ...repair bill.
A Graphite rod does not hold up well when that cone head, or split shot collides.....a split shot bruise can lurk until you pull hard on a fish or branch much later.
My body now tells me which and when to do these casts. But at first consciously, weight factors into your cast. When casting a dry, I may snap it around.
As I fish heavier I automatically now make a bigger motion.
I find this a challenging concept to teach the dry fly fisher converting to spey.
Dry casting habits need be (?) resisted.....the motions are smaller circles, and we tend to have a lower aim point. Basically with spey casts you should cast well above the water as opposed to down at it.
And make broader motions, like you are performing for folks in the back rows...make'm big. And slow down...
Often I see guys (younger) fishing opst
set-ups cranking the snap-T around, and older guys who have fish the longer spey rods casting with big open loops.
Playing with your casts and lines goes on forever..have fun with it.
And, you can anchor all these casts upstream or downstream.
On the downstream anchor you can go slower setting up the cast, the upstream anchor requires movements to be the speed of the water coming at you....
I don't think about this anymore either.
Teaching is hard, because once you've got it, you stop thinking about it!

Jim

 

[Unknownflyman]

Unknown is once again spot on.
I shift between circle and snap-t without thinking. I can say from personal pain/expirience ...repair bill.
A Graphite rod does not hold up well when that cone head, or split shot collides.....a split shot bruise can lurk until you pull hard on a fish or branch much later.
My body now tells me which and when to do these casts. But at first consciously, weight factors into your cast. When casting a dry, I may snap it around.
As I fish heavier I automatically now make a bigger motion.
I find this a challenging concept to teach the dry fly fisher converting to spey.
Dry casting habits need be (?) resisted.....the motions are smaller circles, and we tend to have a lower aim point. Basically with spey casts you should cast well above the water as opposed to down at it.
And make broader motions, like you are performing for folks in the back rows...make'm big. And slow down...
Often I see guys (younger) fishing opst
set-ups cranking the snap-T around, and older guys who have fish the longer spey rods casting with big open loops.
Playing with your casts and lines goes on forever..have fun with it.
And,you can anchor all these casts upstream or downstream.
On the downstream anchor you can go slower setting up the cast, the upstream anchor requires movements to be the speed of the water coming at you....
I don't think about this anymore either.
Teaching is hard, because once you've got it, you stop thinking about it!

Jim

Thanks Bigfly, you're re one of the good ones on the forum.

 

[Bigfly]

Thanks Bigfly, you're re one of the good ones on the forum.

Ha!
I expect to get the boot any day....
Getting quoted is scary too...
The post always looks way too long.
I try to type faster but it doesn't work...

Jim

 

[ia_trouter]

Ha!
I expect to get the boot any day....
Getting quoted is scary too...
The post always looks way too long.
I try to type faster but it doesn't work...

Jim

I know you prefer to type short fly fishing poems, but I like it when you throw down a paragraph now and then. You offer a lot of helpful advice Jim.

 

[Bigfly]

You guys keep it up, and I may learn how to get along in a group.
Doubtful, but I will listen carefully...
Thanks on the poem comment...
I've known more than a few writers who kept it to themselves....after reading extensively some great writings.
I tell everyone..don't believe a thing I say. But feel free to test it....
If ya find it useful, please let me know.
Not trying to make claims, just add to the bulk of knowledge of catching those finny *******s...
The only term I can add to the glossary; Speyofile...a person who thinks fishing Spey beats the hell out flogging a fly on a short stick....
(Paraphrasing my first thought...)
Honestly, I've learned more about fly fishing since my aquisition of a bigger stick, than all the previous years of wafting a fly...

Jim