Jigging for trout

goofnoff1

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Saw an Orvis fly last night they call a mini Wooly Bugger. Looks just like small jigs I've used for 60 years with spinning gear. Combine that with all mono Euro techniques and you're jigging for trout.
 

dswice

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Saw an Orvis fly last night they call a mini Wooly Bugger. Looks just like small jigs I've used for 60 years with spinning gear. Combine that with all mono Euro techniques and you're jigging for trout.
Is it like a tiny marabou crappie jig? Any link with the picture available?
 

trev

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I think any head weighted fly is a jig, including all bead heads and Clousers, but to be jigging we need to have the fly suspended almost vertically and dance it up and down?
 

ddb

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Hell, that's close to what the EuroNymphers do! But with lots of sophisticated gear and techniques. And you've got to wear your baseball hat backwards.
 
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goofnoff1

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Is it like a tiny marabou crappie jig? Any link with the picture available?

 

LandoLando

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I’ve caught many trout with this method. Cast upstream, jig it three or four times through the run and repeat. Just got to make sure to keep the line tight when the fly is on its way back down. I usually do this with lil Kim’s, beadhead buggers and marabou softhackles.
 

bigjim5589

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I make a lot of jigs and in tying flies, for some, there's little difference except the weight method used. Lead or other soft metal molded on the hook, or a bead, cone or barbell added doesn't change them. The casting method changes, but that's the primary difference.

Call them what you will, fish them as you like. Like it or not the sport evolves, and there will be changes. Go with it, or deny it, it's a personal choice.
 

goofnoff1

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I make a lot of jigs and in tying flies, for some, there's little difference except the weight method used. Lead or other soft metal molded on the hook, or a bead, cone or barbell added doesn't change them. The casting method changes, but that's the primary difference.

Call them what you will, fish them as you like. Like it or not the sport evolves, and there will be changes. Go with it, or deny it, it's a personal choice.
It's not really a change. Fifty years ago there was an ad that ran every month about "a fly so deadly it was outlawed on three Yellowstone rivers". The "fly" was a white marabou crappie jig. About ten years ago I saw a video on TV with the Linder clan killing trout in Montana with Lindy Jigs.

When you combine those Euro mono rigs with jigs it isn't fly fishing.
 

trev

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it isn't fly fishing.
Only the state or regulating authority can say what is or isn't fly fishing.

Where I learned to fly fish (at that time) the only requirement was that you use a "fly rod" and a "single action reel"; any fly lure or bait would be fine if you used those two things on fly only water, I used Little Cleo sometimes.
Where I fish now the law goes by what makes the lure a fly and you can fish it with and kind of rig. So, "Fly—An artificial lure constructed on a single-point hook, using any material except soft plastic bait and natural and scented bait as defined in (A) or (B) above, that is tied, glued, or otherwise permanently attached."
Here a crappie jig or Rooster Tail fished with a spinning rod or a hand line is "Fly Fishing" as spelled out by the regulations.
 

Ard

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Saw an Orvis fly last night they call a mini Wooly Bugger. Looks just like small jigs I've used for 60 years with spinning gear. Combine that with all mono Euro techniques and you're jigging for trout.
So many of the 'new techniques' are such a drastic departure from fly fishing as I have known for many years that I am left with nothing to post about. This has always been a sport that was result driven but the results were obtained through traditional methods. Before anyone tells me that times change think about this.............. How bout we make chess really easy for even the rank beginner? Lets say we give the new player 4 Queens instead of one, that would surely help would it not. Heck we could even redesign the board so the new guy could have more pieces to lose but still win. We could redesign Golf courses too! Lets say the holes are the size of the average sand trap so you only have to hit a general area and not those pesky little cups.

That should do for letting you know what I think. I don't do any Euroindystripsetdropshot style fishing at all.
 

trev

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I don't see any new techniques, just new badging.
The Wintu Indian was contact nymphing in 1920. All rod and reel methods are drawn from the fly fishers of old and only the names used for the methods and the materials used for the rods and lures have changed a great deal in the last few centuries.
 

okaloosa

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So many of the 'new techniques' are such a drastic departure from fly fishing as I have known for many years that I am left with nothing to post about. This has always been a sport that was result driven but the results were obtained through traditional methods. Before anyone tells me that times change think about this.............. How bout we make chess really easy for even the rank beginner? Lets say we give the new player 4 Queens instead of one, that would surely help would it not. Heck we could even redesign the board so the new guy could have more pieces to lose but still win. We could redesign Golf courses too! Lets say the holes are the size of the average sand trap so you only have to hit a general area and not those pesky little cups.

That should do for letting you know what I think. I don't do any Euroindystripsetdropshot style fishing at all.
I am not so sure Euro fishing is really that much easier than any other method of fly fishing. In certain waters it is more effective, in others it is not.
I would imagine in your Alaskan rivers covering a lot of water from a distance is vital. where I fish covering a lot of water is not possible because of crowds. what is important is being very technical. But what I like best is that I have an outfit that is 10 feet long and weighs only 7.25 oz total with a swing weight so low that I can enjoy catching 8 inch trout as well as 24 inch trout. I tried fishing the same waters with a skagit line and it just doesnt work well and when I do hook a fish I feel the shooting head weight more than the weight of the fish. Hooking and catching trout on very long very light rods with very light euro fly line is really a lot of fun. and I have been fly fishing since around 1967 and for me its just another way to fly fish. Sure we all would love to throw big drys to ocean run Atlantic salmon or slinging big wets to kings in your waters but I dont see that in my future(since I go no where without my dog ;))....
 

bigjim5589

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It's not really a change. Fifty years ago there was an ad that ran every month about "a fly so deadly it was outlawed on three Yellowstone rivers". The "fly" was a white marabou crappie jig. About ten years ago I saw a video on TV with the Linder clan killing trout in Montana with Lindy Jigs.

When you combine those Euro mono rigs with jigs it isn't fly fishing.
I remember those ads, and I also know it was just a marketing ploy. They were attempting to imply they were banned because they were so productive, but the fact was they didn't meet existing regulations as a "fly". I also know that folks have been arguing about what is or isn't a fly or fly fishing forever.

I agree with Trev, that "fly fishing" is often defined by regulations for specific waters, but otherwise is defined by personal opinion & choices. We all have our own thoughts & opinions on the subject. Unless there are legal definitions, it's pretty much open to anyone's interpretation what is or isn't a fly or fly fishing. IMO, where these discussions often lead is in hard feelings as folks disagree. It can be as bad as discussing politics or religion.

It shouldn't be that way, it's fishing, and although some may feel & think otherwise, in the overall scheme of the world it's a tiny matter, and is of little importance. There are far more important issues in this world. Again, I say, do as you like, but don't disparage how another angler chooses to define these terms, or how they choose to fish.

I do separate a difference between a jig & a fly, and fly fishing, based on a legal definition for fly only trout waters that the state of MD used for many years. That's where I fished, so when I did go to fly only trout water, it's the definition that I had to abide by. Otherwise, they didn't define either term. It was left up to the individual to use as they wished, and that's how I've used it. I have no issue with tying on a tiny jig to use with my fly gear, as to me, it's no different than tying on many of these "flies" tied with beads & other weights. I don't call jigs flies, although in our world today, the line is not well defined. If someone else chooses to define each in terms that I don't agree with, I won't argue with them as that's their choice.

Ard, for your comment, I don't see any of this as changing the game, it's still fishing, but certainly respect your opinion and how you choose to fish. That's really my point, respect for how others choose to fish, provided it's within the applicable laws.

There's way too much arguing and disagreement in this sport as it is, and same in a lot of other things in life. I'm sure most here will agree, fish & fly fishing should be a means to get away from all of that. Folks can still have opinions, without having an argument. When I go fishing, regardless of the tackle method I choose to use, that thought of what is or isn't a fly or fly fishing, is the farthest thing from my mind.
 

goofnoff1

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I remember those ads, and I also know it was just a marketing ploy. They were attempting to imply they were banned because they were so productive, but the fact was they didn't meet existing regulations as a "fly". I also know that folks have been arguing about what is or isn't a fly or fly fishing forever.

I agree with Trev, that "fly fishing" is often defined by regulations for specific waters, but otherwise is defined by personal opinion & choices. We all have our own thoughts & opinions on the subject. Unless there are legal definitions, it's pretty much open to anyone's interpretation what is or isn't a fly or fly fishing. IMO, where these discussions often lead is in hard feelings as folks disagree. It can be as bad as discussing politics or religion.

It shouldn't be that way, it's fishing, and although some may feel & think otherwise, in the overall scheme of the world it's a tiny matter, and is of little importance. There are far more important issues in this world. Again, I say, do as you like, but don't disparage how another angler chooses to define these terms, or how they choose to fish.

I do separate a difference between a jig & a fly, and fly fishing, based on a legal definition for fly only trout waters that the state of MD used for many years. That's where I fished, so when I did go to fly only trout water, it's the definition that I had to abide by. Otherwise, they didn't define either term. It was left up to the individual to use as they wished, and that's how I've used it. I have no issue with tying on a tiny jig to use with my fly gear, as to me, it's no different than tying on many of these "flies" tied with beads & other weights. I don't call jigs flies, although in our world today, the line is not well defined. If someone else chooses to define each in terms that I don't agree with, I won't argue with them as that's their choice.

Ard, for your comment, I don't see any of this as changing the game, it's still fishing, but certainly respect your opinion and how you choose to fish. That's really my point, respect for how others choose to fish, provided it's within the applicable laws.

There's way too much arguing and disagreement in this sport as it is, and same in a lot of other things in life. I'm sure most here will agree, fish & fly fishing should be a means to get away from all of that. Folks can still have opinions, without having an argument. When I go fishing, regardless of the tackle method I choose to use, that thought of what is or isn't a fly or fly fishing, is the farthest thing from my mind.

I don't care how a person fishes as long as it's legal. There isn't a lick of difference fishing all mono with a fly rod and spin fishing.
 

LandoLando

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I don't care how a person fishes as long as it's legal. There isn't a lick of difference fishing all mono with a fly rod and spin fishing.
Not sure I’ve ever considered a weighted line a requirement for fly fishing. Do you consider dapping dry flies fly fishing? I think fishing a handmade lure on a fly rod and reel is about all that I’d consider a requirement for fly fishing. I suppose you could even ditch the reel, I have on accident before and I think some folks in Japan forget the reel intentionally.

Sounds like a big waste of time to sit around trying to come up with a universal definition for fly fishing. That time may be better spent assessing whether or not various fly fishing methods sound like a type of fishing you’d be interested in putting into practice.

To put euro nymphing in perspective for you, well compare it to traditional methods. I’m sure you’re aware that many longtime fly anglers have been tight lining since before I and possible you were born. Then somebody realized that the fly line sags between the eyelets and harms your strike detection; so they lengthened the leader. How long can a leader be before it is not fly fishing?

As far as the flies are concerned, you are also probably aware that dead drifting a wooly bugger (with or without a beadhead) can be pretty effective on most streams. Euro nymphing just added a bend near the eye of the hook to make the flies ride hook point up and give them a jigging action. Not sure how either of the fore mentioned tweaks to traditional tight line nymphing suddenly render the method spin fishing.
 
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okaloosa

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The only thing I like better than making a near perfect cast with a dry fly is actually hooking a fish. which is why I indie or euro nymph 90% of the time ;)
 

goofnoff1

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Not sure I’ve ever considered a weighted line a requirement for fly fishing. Do you consider dapping dry flies fly fishing? I think fishing a handmade lure on a fly rod and reel is about all that I’d consider a requirement for fly fishing. I suppose you could even ditch the reel, I have on accident before and I think some folks in Japan forget the reel intentionally.

Sounds like a big waste of time to sit around trying to come up with a universal definition for fly fishing. That time may be better spent assessing whether or not various fly fishing methods sound like a type of fishing you’d be interested in putting into practice.

To put euro nymphing in perspective for you, well compare it to traditional methods. I’m sure you’re aware that many longtime fly anglers have been tight lining since before I and possible you were born. Then somebody realized that the fly line sags between the eyelets and harms your strike detection; so they lengthened the leader. How long can a leader be before it is not fly fishing?

As far as the flies are concerned, you are also probably aware that dead drifting a wooly bugger (with or without a beadhead) can be pretty effective on most streams. Euro nymphing just added a bend near the eye of the hook to make the flies ride hook point up and give them a jigging action. Not sure how either of the fore mentioned tweaks to traditional tight line nymphing suddenly render the method spin fishing.
Using all mono

Dapping was a part of the first fishing with a fly.
 

goofnoff1

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The only thing I like better than making a near perfect cast with a dry fly is actually hooking a fish. which is why I indie or euro nymph 90% of the time ;)
Salmon eggs or night crawlers are even better. You fish them the same way. It's how I started fishing.
 

LandoLando

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Using all mono

Dapping was a part of the first fishing with a fly.
Using all mono

Dapping was a part of the first fishing with a fly.
I’m having a hard time believing you read, let alone comprehended more than the first few lines of my post if that is your response. Tight line nymphing is also a very old traditional method of fly fishing. Both dapping and tight line nymphing can be done without casting or any fly line on the other side of the final eyelet. It seems like you’ve established some arbitrary limits to fly fishing that are based on your own limited experience, not the collective experience of fly anglers. Give my previous post a second glance and see if you can come up with something more thoughtful than “too much mono.”
 
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