Leader Taper 7.5 vs 9 vs 12ft

matt_geiman

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I'm looking for a knotless leader with a longer mid taper to the tippet section. Will I get this by going with a longer leader, or does a longer leaders just have more butt section? Does it vary between different brands? (Orvis and Rio) Thanks!
 

trev

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Even if the percentage of leader to butt is the same, the material used varies widely. Do you have a micrometer or leader gauge that you can measure the taper with?
I ask that because I keep reading on this forum that these leaders follow a 60% butt + 20% taper + 20% tippet formula, but all the knotless leaders I tried had tapered butt sections as well.
 

matt_geiman

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Even if the percentage of leader to butt is the same, the material used varies widely. Do you have a micrometer or leader gauge that you can measure the taper with?
I ask that because I keep reading on this forum that these leaders follow a 60% butt + 20% taper + 20% tippet formula, but all the knotless leaders I tried had tapered butt sections as well.
Ok good to know, so if they use a 60%20%20% formula I could take a 12 footer and cut 3' of butt off and have a finner 9' leader? That's basically what I'm looking for.
 

trev

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so if they use a 60%20%20% formula
If- like I said I found the ones I bought didn't follow that rule. I agree with Dillon as to a solution and you could even add a few or several feet of butt weight in on that end, however you won't have a "knotless" leader then. I gave up on the preformed leaders long time ago and build all my own from scratch, but they have knots.
 

VaFisherman

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I also tie my own leaders because I have found knotless leaders from all of the manufactures have butts that are to large for 5wt and down lines and for 6wt and up I just like mine better. Some knotless leaders butts measure .021 but most will be .023 and that is just to large for a trout leader. I have also found the knotless leaders to have more butt than 60%. Your idea of purchasing a 12ft leader and cutting 3ft or so off butt is something I have done for friends of mine when they were getting into fly fishing, so to answer your question I think they make a 12ft leader by adding 3ft of butt to a 9ft leader.

Now my only experience with knotless leaders has been with Orvis and Rio, so others may be better.
 

osseous

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Ever tried the tapered leaders from Trout Hunter? They're about the closest thing to what you're looking for- There's a lot of variation in tapered leaders. 60/20/20 was pulled outa thin air, AFAIK

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old timer

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I prefer to tie my own leaders. If I want to make the leader longer I increase all the sections. I don't want the formula to change.

I never could get into factory tapered leaders. Why would I want to fish someone else's formula?

I mess with furled leaders too but to be honest. I prefer a tied leader.

If you want a specific formula. You should tie it up yourself.
 

labradorguy

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I gave furled leaders a try. They weren’t for me. I’ve tried a lot of leaders, some are better than others. The furled leaders (for me) were better than the extruded leaders, but that’s about it. My all time favorite is a leader system that S&S put me into a few years back. I attach the Orvis braided butt to my fly line and then build the leader out.... 0x, 2x, 3x, 4x, then end it with 5’ of 5x for example or whatever I need for the flies I’m fishing. I usually end up around 15 feet or so (depending upon the requirements of the moment). 5’ of 5x sounds like a lot, but it works amazingly well. Those braided butts are awesome.....
 
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silver creek

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I'm looking for a knotless leader with a longer mid taper to the tippet section. Will I get this by going with a longer leader, or does a longer leaders just have more butt section? Does it vary between different brands? (Orvis and Rio) Thanks!
Leaders are composed of three parts - butt, taper, and tippet. I think most commercial leader formulas are based on the Charles Ritz leader formula.

The Charles Ritz 60/20/20 for 60% butt, 20% taper, and 20% tippet so all parts are based on the lenth of the finished leader. Longer leaders will have the longer mid taper you want. See:

https://globalflyfisher.com/fish-better/leader-formulas

 

osseous

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I gave furled leaders a try. They weren’t for me. I’ve tried a lot of leaders, some are better than others. The furled leaders (for me) were better than the extruded leaders, but that’s about it. My all time favorite is a leader system that S&S put me into a few years back. I attach the Orvis braided butt to my fly line and then build the leader out.... 0x, 2x, 3x, 4x, then end it with 5’ of 5x for example or whatever I need for the flies I’m fishing. I usually end up around 15 feet or so (depending upon the requirements of the moment). 5’ of 5x sounds like a lot, but it works amazingly well. Those braided butts are awesome.....
And discontinued...

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labradorguy

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I didn’t know they discontinued them. Wow, that was a mistake.... Those things are awesome. They far and away outperform any other dry fly leader that I’ve ever used.

Glad I have twenty of them!
 

dillon

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Can you still get the material to make your own?
Some people construct furled leaders. However, braided leaders are machine woven as S&S explains in the op of the above linked thread. Mike’s Cutthroat monofilament braided leaders are the closest match to the performance of Orvis leaders we have found, unless R has discovered something I don’t know about. When my stash (not near twenty) of Orvis braids runs out, I will likely turn to these mono curls by Mike.
 

osseous

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Anglers Image offered (exactly?) the same product- and they're gone too. Wondering if a common source stopped producing them?...

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labradorguy

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Some people construct furled leaders. However, braided leaders are machine woven as S&S explains in the op of the above linked thread. Mike’s Cutthroat monofilament braided leaders are the closest match to the performance of Orvis leaders we have found, unless R has discovered something I don’t know about. When my stash (not near twenty) of Orvis braids runs out, I will likely turn to these mono curls by Mike.
That or you and Richard look me up somewhere around Craig and I’ll fix you up. 😃
 

trev

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Some people construct furled leaders. However, braided leaders are machine woven as S&S explains in the op of the above linked thread. Mike’s Cutthroat monofilament braided leaders are the closest match to the performance of Orvis leaders we have found, unless R has discovered something I don’t know about. When my stash (not near twenty) of Orvis braids runs out, I will likely turn to these mono curls by Mike.
I understand that Orvis sold already constructed leader butts. My understanding back in the '80s was that what they sold were formed from braid that was manufactured by a line maker such as Gudebrod or Cortland. I didn't know or had forgotten that they were imported. It was this misunderstanding that prompted my question, Gudebrod being out of business. I bought one or maybe two of these about '85-6 before they were looped and used for two or three months, after reading a write up very similar to the one linked; did S&S write or a magazine back then? Anyhow I decided that although they were much better than extruded leaders, my knotted leaders suited me better and had greater adaptability.
 

sweetandsalt

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Leaders are an important component of our outfit and the one part we can customize to our individual angling techniques. Yes, the TroutHunter and newest Cortland extruded leaders may be a little better than average but they are still inferior in performance to virtually any design you might construct on your own. If one is will to modify a knotless leader by altering its proportions and adding sections, why not build your own from scratch to make them the way you want them to be. There is but one reason for knotless tapered leaders and that is convenience. Nylon Furled leaders can be built down to be very good, the thread ones tend to collapse due to poorer transference of energy. Leader craft and understanding take one's angling to the next level.
 
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