Long mono butt section sticking to nymphing rod in the rain/snow

lookard

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Hi guys,

I had an epic time on the Housatonic River last Sunday euro nymphing with my new purchase, Echo Shadow X 11ft 3wt. I use the cortland braided core level competition line and a 12 ft butt section of 14lb mono.

When I first got to the river it stopped raining, and I was catching fish. However, it starting pouring again and I started having trouble with casting the rig out. The rain made the butt section stick to the rod which made shooting the line out difficult. I was also using smaller nymphs because I didn't need heavy nymphs to get down. I always needed to false cast out and get at least 1 of the nymphs into the water for a water load to pull the line out before I get into the actual cast. I also usually add in a haul into my cast sometimes, and the "sticky" mono did not allow me to do that because it basically just made my cast shorter.

I was wondering if anyone else has such issues when euro nymphing with smaller flies in the rain/snow and how did you guys solve this issue?

Thanks guys!
 

Bigfly

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Maybe I don't understand....not the first time.
When I euro nymph, I have an anchor fly. A heavy mother to get it down. That is the definition of euro....
The little nymphs 1 or 2, are just along for the ride.
And, a haul is not needed or wanted in my world, while nymphing.
The line is locked off, and lobbed.....
I have never had an issue with the line clinging to the rod, ever....
Fish under your rod tip for best results. As in, high stick near you.
Forget the dry fly cast......

Jim
 

Noodle

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I’m with Jim, it may be our misinterpretation of what you wrote but it sounds like you are skipping the oval cast in favor of a traditional cast. This is a totally different casting style.

While you are first learning, you will want a stiffer butt section because it’s easier to cast. Look up Lance Eagan’s leader formula; it will make you good at blood knots if you aren’t already and is the easiest beginner leader to cast.

You should use a heavier beaded anchor fly even if it’s small. It makes the oval cast much simpler and keeps you in good touch with the rig while you learn the technique. If you want the dropper to be smaller that’s great.

I cannot recommend enough getting the Egan/Olsen Modern Nymphing DVD. The technique is so specific and not so intuitive that it’s really helpful to have it spelled out.


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durangobrad

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If your fishing light nymphs, soft hackles, emergers, your probably better off with a traditional floating line setup. Without a weighted point fly to "lob" it's hard to cast.




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lookard

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This issue doesn't usually happen when the nymphs are heavy enough. But sometimes the nymphs that I use do not need to be as heavy and the line sticks to the rod in the rain. Its only in this specific scenario when I get the issue. The haul that I do is usually for the tuck cast.
 

Noodle

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This issue doesn't usually happen when the nymphs are heavy enough. But sometimes the nymphs that I use do not need to be as heavy and the line sticks to the rod in the rain. Its only in this specific scenario when I get the issue. The haul that I do is usually for the tuck cast.
So why are you going so light? You could use slightly heavier nymphs and float the sighter/horizontal cast to stay higher in the column/sink slower/etc. I’m wondering if you are going past the point of having enough weight to cast, and if you could alter your approach with slightly heavier nymphs to achieve a better result for what you are trying to accomplish.


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lookard

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It really wasn't that light and I was getting good drifts and catching fish on them. I think a 3.5mm on point and a 3mm on dropper. It was just a lot of rain that made the mono butt section stick to the rod. Seems like most people don't have this issue. 0.14 inch of rain around noon when I was fishing according to Wunderground.
 

knotjoe

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I use the cortland braided core level competition line and a 12 ft butt section of 14lb mono.
It was just a lot of rain that made the mono butt section stick to the rod. Seems like most people don't have this issue.
Well, try keeping the mono section out of the rod guides. The level comp will shoot and cast just fine, but you ain't gonna pull it out very well with 14lb mono and a few jigs. Shorten the "butt" section of leader so you are starting the cast with some comp line out of the rod tip.

Not entirely sure what the heck you're trying to do out there, but you keep saying the mono section is sticking to the rod. It oughtn't be in there to begin with. Kinda surprised it (comp line) wasn't pulling the leader into the the rod guides further, perhaps the rain was a frictional blessing with the added surface tension there.

As an aside, how do you like the Cortland product? I have a season in on the SA Level Comp and it handles pretty well in mono core. Downside is it's called a floater, but behaves a lot more like an intermediate in the water. Just doesn't have the bouyancy I desire for certain uses.
 

Noodle

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It really wasn't that light and I was getting good drifts and catching fish on them. I think a 3.5mm on point and a 3mm on dropper. It was just a lot of rain that made the mono butt section stick to the rod. Seems like most people don't have this issue. 0.14 inch of rain around noon when I was fishing according to Wunderground.
Oh you’re right, that’s really not that light at all. I use 2.3 mm beads on the point sometimes and don’t have that problem. I’m stumped, I assumed you were trying to euro nymph a beadless soft hackle kebari or something. I think Knotjoe might be on to it though.


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knotjoe

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I think Knotjoe might be on to it though.
If he's stuck on the 14lb mono part of rig, anyway. I don't fully understand why anyone would use such a section if there is a comp nympher on the reel, but some apparently like to.

I'd simply attached a shorter, lighter leader to the end of the Cortland product and fish it from there. Any of these low diameter flylines designed for ESN techniques are much easier to handle and work with than any mono. Plus, if you get into anything of size, it's only (1) clean junction-free line in the guides when the fish bolts.

Yeah, I know 14 lb mono has some different attributes, but the low diameter flylines works pretty well at closer range and are sensitive enough for the technique. Easy visual detection, too. Keep it clean and simple.
 

slow_floccer

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Hi guys,

I had an epic time on the Housatonic River last Sunday euro nymphing with my new purchase, Echo Shadow X 11ft 3wt. I use the cortland braided core level competition line and a 12 ft butt section of 14lb mono.

When I first got to the river it stopped raining, and I was catching fish. However, it starting pouring again and I started having trouble with casting the rig out. The rain made the butt section stick to the rod which made shooting the line out difficult. I was also using smaller nymphs because I didn't need heavy nymphs to get down. I always needed to false cast out and get at least 1 of the nymphs into the water for a water load to pull the line out before I get into the actual cast. I also usually add in a haul into my cast sometimes, and the "sticky" mono did not allow me to do that because it basically just made my cast shorter.

I was wondering if anyone else has such issues when euro nymphing with smaller flies in the rain/snow and how did you guys solve this issue?

Thanks guys!
Hi lookard,

Sounds like most folks responding haven't ever experienced this before. I just wanted to let you know I certainly have. Standing in the rain on the river and the mono is completely attracted to the fly rod due to the rain and won't shake loose or shoot. I haven't tried anyting to fix it yet, but I just wanted to let you know that you're not the only one seeing this.

The suggestion to shorten the butt section and let regular fly line or your comp line be in the guides might be the ticket. I think that's what I will try next time it happens.

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Bigfly

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Watch Lance on video too......we don't overhand cast using euro style. That is a leftover from dry fly casting....notice we hold the line trapped against the corks...with the other hand not involved. High sticking.
I notice we all bring baggage from that stage of development. when nymphing LOB cast!
I do not oval cast because that is a variation of overhand casting. (And I can oval cast like a big dog.....)
Do to a propensity to tangle, and unless the line is under constant tension, we lob because over the course of the day, it is safer. Less frustrating too.
Most of the time the comp line tip is out of the terminal guide, No connections going in and out of the guide at all. That is a good way to loose a big fish, and /or break a rod tip.
I teach this style with a nine foot leader to start, and slowly lengthen the leader over time. I max at 18ft.
Burk's Bottom rollers are a good anchor fly.....on bigger water I tie my own anchor because they don't sell heavy enough anchors commercially.
Unless you get down to feel the bottom, you are not using this technique efficiently. Mostly little fish result.
Bump the bottom and you may get a bigger surprise........

Jim
 

lookard

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Well, try keeping the mono section out of the rod guides. The level comp will shoot and cast just fine, but you ain't gonna pull it out very well with 14lb mono and a few jigs. Shorten the "butt" section of leader so you are starting the cast with some comp line out of the rod tip.

Not entirely sure what the heck you're trying to do out there, but you keep saying the mono section is sticking to the rod. It oughtn't be in there to begin with. Kinda surprised it (comp line) wasn't pulling the leader into the the rod guides further, perhaps the rain was a frictional blessing with the added surface tension there.

As an aside, how do you like the Cortland product? I have a season in on the SA Level Comp and it handles pretty well in mono core. Downside is it's called a floater, but behaves a lot more like an intermediate in the water. Just doesn't have the bouyancy I desire for certain uses.
This longer butt section of 14 lb mono allows me to shoot the line out when I cast in dry conditions. And it leaves me with the competition line to handle the slack and retrieval. So it works out really nice for me.

I really like the cortland line I have. When I was at Big Sky Anglers this October I met Robert Van Rensburg who helped me set up my current leader system with a needle knot connection to the competition line. My buddy uses the Rio line which was recommended by Robert. It's slightly thicker coating really allows the needle knot to bite in.
 

lookard

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Hi lookard,

Sounds like most folks responding haven't ever experienced this before. I just wanted to let you know I certainly have. Standing in the rain on the river and the mono is completely attracted to the fly rod due to the rain and won't shake loose or shoot. I haven't tried anyting to fix it yet, but I just wanted to let you know that you're not the only one seeing this.

The suggestion to shorten the butt section and let regular fly line or your comp line be in the guides might be the ticket. I think that's what I will try next time it happens.

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I'm glad I'm not the only one who've experienced this.

I did a bit of searching around. I found some solutions. One guy recommended wrapping tippet on the rod to break the tension. I think that would be what I try next time. Another solution that was suggested was to use some wax on the rod so it repels water.
 

trev

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Is it usual to shoot line when Euro nymphing? I've had the impression that it was pretty much a fixed length of leader in use, kinda an underwater tenkara?
 

jfh245

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I agree with knotjoe. If you are using a comp line just attach leader, some Rio sighter, and tippet. If you like the "mono" set-up from Troutbitten or G Daniel you really don't need a comp line.
 

lookard

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Is it usual to shoot line when Euro nymphing? I've had the impression that it was pretty much a fixed length of leader in use, kinda an underwater tenkara?
I'm not sure of what is usual. But if I dont want to use something really heavy to get down, I have to cast further upstream to get enough time for it to sink down to the right depth. So the mono shoots out, and I'm left with the competition line to manage the slack as the line comes back. Yesterday, I was fishing on the Housatanic and I needed 6.5 ft of tippet and two 3.5mm Devin's tungsten taco egg patterns to get down. Some places I had to add split shots to get down into the bottom slow zone. The water was not moving too fast, but the hole was deep.
 

trev

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Being unfamiliar with the EU technique, I'm not sure how it is different than older techniques like Humphreys' all mono rigs or ted Fay's tight line methods- it sounds much like a copy of these techniques. When I fished all mono with Cobra flat monofilament per Humphreys I used a dropper with shot on it to get my light nymphs down, but eventually abandoned the system in favor of floating fly line and hand made tapered leaders, using an extremely long 5x tippet to gain depth when needed, I found the key to fishing upstream nymphs (at least for me) was to keep the leader at about 1.5 X rod length and using the downstream water as loading to yank the rig up into a lob up and across stream, Fay/Towendolly style and never to extend line more than that. Keeping the nymphs essentially under the rod tip. This in turn requires wading in and standing near the fish.
As I understand your problem the cling you have in the leader is mostly because that piece of leader inside the guides is too limp/soft; I would change that to 20-30# mono or 15-20# Amnesia- in other words something stiffer than what you have, and make a reducing taper outside the guides; perhaps about 3' above the flies. This may be what others have said about extending the comp line outside the guides, I don't know what comp line is, but suspect it is simply level running line?
To stay with your light soft leader, I don't think waxing the rod will help, waxing the leader might though or wiping both with a water repellent. You really need weight to keep the leader tight enough that it can't cling.
Maybe you will get some ideas from this and the other articles linked from here The Mono Rig and Why Fly Line Sucks | Troutbitten
 
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knotjoe

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Burk's Bottom rollers are a good anchor fly.....on bigger water I tie my own anchor because they don't sell heavy enough anchors commercially.
I bet most of the guys with their name on these moderately heavy, yet still marketable flies are doing the same as you a good portion of the time. They just don’t like to speak of it much or show what they’re using.

On occasion we simply need something bordering on a big, ugly thumper jig to get it right. Works across all tackle and techniques, sometimes it’s not enough just to get down there, it’s also how it behaves when it’s down there. IME, that usually means a good bit heavier.

If nothin’ else, it buys me a lot more exposure in the strike zone I’m trying to fish. Granted, much of the water I fish isn’t always conducive to the “long drift-to-desired depth” so I chuck heavy at the slightest justification. Perhaps crude by some standards, but highly effective.
 

Bigfly

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Knot Joe...
I use much heavier flies than can be purchased.
Burks are very effective, but only to a point. When fishing bigger water we need to sink more quickly.
Another reason we go heavy, is due to the river conformation. Longer stretches that don't vary
much in depth (and generally hold fewer/smaller fish), and have very deep short buckets. We need to drop straight into these as soon as possible. The big guys like deep and dark for protection sometimes...
I mentioned Burks, not because I know him, but because they are heavy and effective.
(And 3 yummy colors.) It was designed for our water, but it might work on others as well..
I wouldn't deem all waters to be the same....merely make suggestions for folks to try, and not a universal application.
When I came to the Truckee, I fished with the techniques learned on other waters around the west.
The last 30 years I have been pushing my envelope to fish all of this water, not just the water I knew how to fish.
It seems to be working. And, using weight isn't much of a secret out west. Most fishers that I run into from other places seem to think a BB or two might be enough. I rock two ABs most all the time. In bigger water, I can use the equivalent of 4-5 AAA split shot, or...Tungsten beads on the fly.

Jim
 
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