Number of turns for blood knot?

LOC

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I was referring to the one depicted in blue cordage-

the other?... i cannot see how you could set that in 15 lb consistently? I will play around with it, but the uni to uni would be my choice here.

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Testing this knot in 15 pound max I did find that tying the second half of the knot was like dealing with a loaded spring. It's easy to get in the first seven twist on the lower half of the knot but applying that to the second half was a bit of a wrestling match. S&S I'd appreciate some tips if you have them. Thanks!
 
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LOC

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Sorry,I would never use a Surgeons knot on blue water fish.I'm talking Milkfish,Tuna and the like.YMMV obviously.
Yo Dyno, can you please tell me what knot you are using so I can test it vs a triple surgeons. Thanks!
Also if you can explain in detail why your knot is the best choice I would appreciate it.
I have no emotional ties to a knot. if you can steer me in a better direction it only make me stronger. Thank you!
 
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dynaflow

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Hello LOC,if the Triple Surgeons works for you then go for it,but I assure you that no-one I fish with uses this knot for the bluewater.It's also a bulky knot in comparison to others.Personally I (generally) use Uni Knots, but also favour the Albright and Slim Beauty knots.The latter is tricky to tie but worth the effort.
Cheers
 

sweetandsalt

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Why don't you use it for trout if it is a superior knot ? In this thread you talked about leader craft regardless if it was harder to tie? Thanks!
I regard the Blood Knot as an ideal leader and tippet knot and very rarely, almost never, break a 5X tippet at the knot. The 6 turn Ligature is a bulkier, more complex tie and necessitates considerable force to fully seat thus less appropriate in a fine dimeter tippet set ups, I have experimented with it for dry flies and found it unnecessary. Putting the brakes to a bonefish racing toward the mangroves I need all the leader integrity I can get though.
 

LOC

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Hello LOC,if the Triple Surgeons works for you then go for it,but I assure you that no-one I fish with uses this knot for the bluewater.It's also a bulky knot in comparison to others.Personally I (generally) use Uni Knots, but also favour the Albright and Slim Beauty knots.The latter is tricky to tie but worth the effort.
Cheers

The problem I'm having is are not explaining in detail why the knot you choose is better then a triple surgeons. There must be a reason besides assuring me that your friends don't use it. A bulky knot does not make sense to me on a 12wt? I want to have a better blue water knot but you have not convinced me besides saying no one I know fishes with it would be a reason for me to convert to your knot. That's anecdotal. Tying knots is not hard at all ! It's basically following a recipe. I don't stray away from tricky knots.
Please explain to me what advantages in cold hard facts you have using a uni to uni over a triple surgeons. Thanks, I appreciate your knowledge.
 
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LOC

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I regard the Blood Knot as an ideal leader and tippet knot and very rarely, almost never, break a 5X tippet at the knot. The 6 turn Ligature is a bulkier, more complex tie and necessitates considerable force to fully seat thus less appropriate in a fine dimeter tippet set ups, I have experimented with it for dry flies and found it unnecessary. Putting the brakes to a bonefish racing toward the mangroves I need all the leader integrity I can get though.
S and S can you also explain in detail why if I use your knot for blue water I will be more successful over a triple surgeons?
Thanks, I want to have the best knot in my system but want my choice based on in the field hard evidence that your knot is the best choice.
 

dynaflow

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Sorry LOC, I don't think it's anecdotal when I say that none of my blue water fishing partners uses a Triple Surgeons knot,but I'll be more specific.We don't use it because it's unreliable,and the other knots I've mentioned have proven reliability.I tell you what....
Lets have a poll and see how many blue water fly fishers use a Triple Surgeons knot for Milkfish,Tuna,Albacore and GT's.
Cheers
 

LOC

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Dyna thanks, being more specific is what I am getting after.
Do you think the Triple Surgeon is unreliable because of the actual structure of the knot when tied correctly or
do you think it is unreliable because there's a strong chance it won't be tied correctly?

If it's the latter what's the specific mistake is being made during the knot process? Thanks!
 

osseous

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Heavy mono struggles with how that knot twists when seating. Tie a few and watch. You will get an overlap that shouldn't be there on many tied in larger diameter or "hard" mono. It requires that you pull all 4 ends equally- and a short tag on heavy mono makes that hard to do. Leave your tags long and pay attention to how it seats and it's ok. Other knots are more consistent, without the babysitting.

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dynaflow

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osseous hints at one of the problems.Monofilament (Nylon) also "burns" when tied as opposed to Fluorocarbon which is harder,but to answer your question (and be put on the spot) I suspect it's more the latter ("unreliable because there's a strong chance it won't be tied correctly") but again I stand by a previous statement about there simply being better knots for the blue water.....as osseous says above "Other knots are more consistent, without the babysitting".
 

LOC

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osseous hints at one of the problems.Monofilament (Nylon) also "burns" when tied as opposed to Fluorocarbon which is harder,but to answer your question (and be put on the spot) I suspect it's more the latter ("unreliable because there's a strong chance it won't be tied correctly") but again I stand by a previous statement about there simply being better knots for the blue water.....as osseous says above "Other knots are more consistent, without the babysitting".
Thanks guys I’m going to stop by my friends who has a set up to test knots. I’ll try to tie them as chitty as possible (letting them twist) and see what the data reveals good stuff and thanks for your knowledge!
 

sweetandsalt

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When I came across teh Ligature, I did not wonder "prove it to me". Showing it to a knowledgeable salty friend he wonders so we made some knots in the same material and slowly pulled from both ends to see if there was a consistent "winner". Turns out there was and he is a convert to the 6-turn Ligature. In fly fishing I don't rely as much on Reviews and Shootouts as much as I do on my own experimentation. In a couple of weeks we will spend teh weekend with my guide buddy in his boat off Montauk. Big migrating bass and false albacore will hopefully be abundant...I'll inform if any of the three of us bust a knot of any kind.
 

el jefe

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osseous hints at one of the problems.Monofilament (Nylon) also "burns" when tied as opposed to Fluorocarbon which is harder,but to answer your question (and be put on the spot) I suspect it's more the latter ("unreliable because there's a strong chance it won't be tied correctly") but again I stand by a previous statement about there simply being better knots for the blue water.....as osseous says above "Other knots are more consistent, without the babysitting".
To get around the "burning" and help the blood knot seat better, I dab some fly floatant or ChapStick on the knot as a lubricant. The knot slides right down, seats tight, and does not burn.
 
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sweetandsalt

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To get around the "burning" and help the blood knot seat better, I use dab some fly floatant or ChapStick on the knot as a lubricant. The knot slides right down, seats tight, and does not burn.
This frictional energy damage is an issue with most all knots in Nylon. Being old school I just wet my assembled knot with saliva but in the lubricated tightening process I do not rely solely on pulling; I use my thumb nails to slide the coils toward one another eliminating unwanted frictional heat. And tightly check my tag ends too.
 
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