Nymphing rig question

caddis75

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Hey all,

I am playing around with my nymphing skillset (using indicators, not using indicators, etc) and I had a question about other people's rigs.

Let's say you are fishing a run that is 4-5 ft deep and moves at a moderate pace. You are using an indicator such as an airlock, you have weight, and you have two flies, a nymph and a midge. You are aiming to reach trout eating just above the bottom. How far apart would you have your indicator, weight, and two flies? Do you conect your flies hook to eye or offshoot them? How much weight would you normally use?

Thanks for replying.

Caddis
 

moucheur2003

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That's pretty deep for nymphing on the bottom. I'd probably abandon the little indicator and go to a Euro high-sticking setup with a sighter and a long tippet section in the leader and a heavy tungsten bead point fly or a drop-shot dropper rig to keep it on the bottom. (For example see: A Drop-Shot Tandem Nymph Rig) Or I'd use a Raven float rig similar to the one that centerpinners use for steelhead on some of the Great Lakes tribs. (For example: Raven Floats and Steelhead | The Fly Rod Shop)

As to your question about how much weight, that (as well as tippet length) will depend on the specific conditions of depth and current, so it's a matter of trial and error once you get there. You'll know you've got it right if you can feel it ticking against the bottom occasionally but you don't snag very often. If you're not using a drop shot rig, beadhead flies tied on jig hooks might snag a little less than conventional hooks and wire underbody flies.

As to your question about how to connect the two flies, every method has pluses and minuses and none is perfect. A dropper tippet off the main leader moves more freely but tangles more easily. Tying the point fly off the bend of the upper fly tangles less but it restricts the movement of the upper fly, which some anglers think may deter strikes. It also makes changing the upper fly more complicated because you have to re-rig both of them. My favorite compromise is to tie the upper fly on with a Palomar knot, leaving a long tag end to tie in the point fly. That reduces tangles and doesn't restrict movement quite as much as tying the point tippet to the bend of the upper fly, but you still have to cut off both flies and re-rig in order to change the upper fly.
 
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MichaelCPA

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If you need to reach across that deep pool, then indicator is needed. Try 1.5 times depth in length? For the rest, experiment as your conditions are specific for this cast on one day.
 

patrick62

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Here's a slightly heretical rig I've been playing with the last couple years.

I use a panfish popper, usually white so I can see it, as an indicator.

I tie a piece of fairly sturdy nylon (3X-5X) to the bend of the hook. To that I tie a piece of appropriate fluorocarbon (I've been experimenting with Seaguar Finesse) with a surgeon's knot and use the tag as a dropper.

The popper floats well and is very visible. If I want to high-stick I can just hold it so the popper is barely touching the water, or not at all.
 

silver creek

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Hey all,

I am playing around with my nymphing skillset (using indicators, not using indicators, etc) and I had a question about other people's rigs.

Let's say you are fishing a run that is 4-5 ft deep and moves at a moderate pace. You are using an indicator such as an airlock, you have weight, and you have two flies, a nymph and a midge. You are aiming to reach trout eating just above the bottom. How far apart would you have your indicator, weight, and two flies? Do you conect your flies hook to eye or offshoot them? How much weight would you normally use?

Thanks for replying.

Caddis

Read this post I made about 5 years ago and then go to the posts I linked to. I think you will learn about nymphing in different situations.

https://www.theflyfishingforum.com/...w-to-s/367355-nymphing-2-must-see-videos.html
 

mtboiler

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So, a simple set up that should help you out. It is easier to draw it than explain it, but I am not 'computer smart'.
First, I almost always use a 7.5 ft 3x leader when nymph fishing. I attach a size 14 barrel swivel at the bottom of the leader. The barrel swivel does two valuable things. It helps add weight and also keeps the tippet portion of the leader from twisting up. I than attach a 2 to 2.5 ft section of 4x tippet. Typically this mono. At about 15 inches up from the bottom I add a piece of 5 or 6 inch 4x fluoro using a triple surgeons knot, leaving the tag end pointed up. This helps prevent the top fly from twisting around the rest of the rig.
I than attach the heavier fly at the bottom of the rig. Now you have weight at the bottom to pull the fly down and the weight of the barrel swivel. So, your nymph would be at the bottom and the midge on the tag end. As I fish, I end up cutting off flies and tying new ones on from time to time. If either the bottom or top piece of tippet get to short, I simply cut the tippet above the triple surgeons knot and add another 2 foot section, making sure I leave at least 6 inches as a tag for my upper fly. Most of the time I am fishing a wire nymph, copper john style on the bottom and an unweighted fly on the top. That top fly typically is the first fly the fish see as well.
This system allows both flies to work independently of each other and it does not appear to cause any more tangles than fishing with one fly.
Now, as far a crossing seams. I often cast in the second seam giving myself 15 feet or so to drift. When my indicator is about half way to where I think the fish is, I mend upstream hard. This hops the indicator upstream slowing the 'pull' of the indicator on the flies. The surface of a river is usually faster than the bottom. This does two really good things. Like mentioned, it slows done the flies, but it also drops them in the water column creating an impression that they are rising through the water as they get to the strike zone. You can hop the indicator a foot or so and not really change the depth of the flies since the flies are typically behind the indicator anyway.
I have found the majority of my takes are with the top fly and right after I mend the indicator.
Now, one last trick. If the water if 5 feet deep, I start fishing at 3.5 ft. Fish have eyes on the top of their head and the only way they see below them is from the reflection on the surface. So, I typically work above the fish first and than add depth as I go. I might run the fly through the exact same line 3 or 4 times than change depths. Fact is fish only see a few feet in front of them. If they are moving to another foot source when you fly is in the strike zone the fish might not see your fly. Also, when the fish moves back to its holding area, it might not see your offering. Nymphing requires a ton of patients and perseverance. But my experience is that a fish will hit a nymph multiple times but a dry on once.
 

flav

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I think water that depth and speed is perfect for a dropshot setup, if it's legal where you're fishing. There's several ways that you can set it up, they all have pluses and minuses. Kelly Galloup has a nice video on how to set up a dropshot rig, if you're interested you should check it out. Be prepared to lose almost no flies, though, and probably catch more fish.
 

mtboiler

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May be I am missing something here, but 4 to 5 feet is not deep nymphing. And moderate speed to me is not fast water. If those are the variables, you are not going to need much in the way of split shot or additional weight.
I nymph fish to 6 and 7 feet without much split shot with a lot of success.
A couple of variables though can change that. If you are fishing 8 plus feet, you might need additional weight. Again, I prefer to fish from the top down. Because of this, and the fact I tie all of my own flies, I have silver bead heads and gold bead head nymphs. The gold ones have 8 to 10 wraps of lead wire around the hook. that gives me additional weight to get the flies down faster.
Second variable to consider is speed of the water. Fast currents, less than 3 or 4 feet deep are not typically a problem. Getting depth with fast current and 7 plus feet requires the use of dropshot rigs.
Finally, where I mainly use a dropshot rig is when i am fishing a drop pool that drops off significantly in a short distance and the fish I am targeting are right on the drop. Easy fix is to simply add a 6 inch piece of 6x tippet, you don't use it for anything else, to the bend of the hook of the bottom fly. A simple improved clinch knot will do the trick. Than two overhand knots at the bottom of that and pinch the split shot above the knot.
Watch this video from Kelly Galloup. YouTube The only difference between what he does and how I rig is that I use a heavy nymph at the bottom instead of split shot. The reason I do this is because in my mind I am limiting any movement of a fly by adding tippet to the bend of the hook and adding split shot below that. I also, prefer to fish from the top down. As he mentions in his video fish feed above their heads and seldom fish below. Because of this I will start a foot or two above the bottom and work down. The only reason I do this is because if running fly line and leader of fish spooks them close to the surface it probably does the same below the surface. But, as I have said many times, no one has ever proven they can talk to fish so no one is sure what they think!!!
 

caddis75

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Thanks all, Great ideas to explore. Much appreciated. I was catching fish but wanted to explore other ideas as I felt I was too much of a one-trick pony lately.
 
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craigthor

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I’d go to a slim fly like a Perdigon to get to that depth quickly. I don’t fish indicators only tight line and run 4-5’ of 5x Flouro to get down quickly. I tie my tag anywhere from 10-24” up depending on what I want to accomplish.
 

proheli

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I agree with mtboiler. Lots of good advice here, and the basics of nymphimg can be learned, but your sit is pretty basic. 4 feet down x 1.5 = indicator at 6 feet from the bottom fly. Next, 90% of what a trout eats is 3/8s of an inch long and is brown or black, so pick any one for your top fly and then pick some cool looking midge/nymph for your bottom one. Put them a foot apart. In shallow water make it 6 inches and in deep water 18. That is 75% of nymphing if you ask me, a lightly experienced nympher, lol. But my overall philosophy is get them deep enough to bonk the fish on the nose, and I always remember Kelly Gallop’s advice that the difference between a good day and a bad day is getting 6 inches farther in the water column.
 
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