Patagonia-Danner Foot Tractor boots - 2 yr review

bear99

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It is the 2 yr anniversary since I began using the Patagonia-Danner Foot Tractor sticky rubber wading boots. During that time I have documented the use, wear, and maintenance of the boots. For a boot that claims to be “the last boot you will ever buy” it is of little value to provide any review before 2 yrs of use at a minimum. At the time of purchase I found only one review that had used the boots for an extended length of time (1 yr), which was not sufficient to make any judgement regarding the bold claim about the durability of these boots as no detailed information was provided regarding the extent and nature of use. My comments here attempt to provide a detailed evaluation of these boots, the first of a series for the lifetime of these boots. Hopefully, this will help others make an informed decision as to whether these very expensive boots are worth the price. Note, this will be a long and detailed review. If you’re looking for one of those shallow influencer reviews that amounts to “best boots ever, you need to buy them” that would not dare to raise substantial criticism when warranted then look elsewhere.

Another common problem with reviews regards vague statements like “guide-tested” and “I’m hard on gear”. These can be difficult to interpret. Guides in my area spend most of their time in a boat so I don't believe this necessarily provides much of an endorsement. Does “hard on gear” mean you are careless, abusive, and put little effort into proper maintenance or that you use the gear extensively and under difficult conditions? If one ignores a manufacturer’s recommendations for care and maintenance then I believe you can’t complain about premature failure. My gear sees a lot of use, but I also follow manufacturer’s recommendations when caring for my gear and I try to limit damage in the field. My gear is cleaned and dried after every use exactly per the manufacturer’s instructions. I need to make it last as long as possible.

For wading boots it’s also important to consider how they are used. Are you someone who always fishes within view of the fishing access or do you hike miles every trip? I almost exclusively wade fish. Compared to my friends and other wade fishers I encounter I can say that I put a lot of hiking miles on my boots and spend many hours on the river in the water. I fish a freestone river. I typically hike on well-worn trails with occasional bushwhacking, in addition to cobble riverbed. The river has a wide variety of terrain from larger cobble rocks to small cobble, to gravel, to sand, but it is cobble of some form where I spend most time fishing.

I spent a long time researching this purchase, reading every single review I could find at that time. Having owned a pair of Danner hiking boots of similar design to the Patagonia-Danner Foot Tractor boots for over 20 years gave me some confidence that the Patagonia-Danner boots might be as durable as advertised. I also learned a lot about the boots and their development from a phone discussion with a Patagonia customer service rep named Scott. Scott was involved in some of the testing prior to product release. He provided useful information that was not available anywhere else at that time, most of which is included in the current product descriptions. I can verify most of what Scott told me about the boots and hence he was a knowledgeable straight shooter, although there is one feature I have yet to test. I mention Scott by name to give credit where credit is due. So often customer service folks cannot tell me anything more than what is posted on their web site nor do they have any personal experience with the product in question.

I have done my best to provide measurements of wear on the boots and define how they have been used, but some of these assessments are subjective because they are difficult to quantitate. As of the time of writing I have used the boots on 76 wade fishing trips, walking a total of approximately 253 miles (average 3.3 miles/trip). Most of those trips were full day (~ 8 hrs), but 24 were shorter trips of 2-4 hrs duration.

For more info and images see my posts below and this video:

It’s far too early to draw any conclusions about whether these boots are worth what I paid for them. I can say that so far I’m mostly pleased with their performance, but there are caveats as explained below. Moreover, for the price the boots better not show signs of falling apart after just two years of use.

Value/Price
Back in 2019 these boots were more than twice the price of top of the line boots from other manufacturers. The price has since dropped, but they are still much more expensive than other boots. I purchased mine on sale for $399, but that was the cost of being an early adopter. Like many Danner hiking boots, the Patagonia-Danner Foot Tractor boots can be “recrafted” with options for varying levels of recrafting from simple replacement of the soles to more extensive work. The Danner folks can do some impressive work reconditioning leather provided you have properly maintained the boots. Check out the images of other Danner boots on the Recrafting section of their web site for proof and images of boots that were ineligible for recrafting due to poor maintenance. The soles are most likely to go first. As of last year the cost for basic sole replacement for the sticky rubber soles was still $150, almost the price of a high end boot from other manufacturers. Therefore, this must be incorporated into the cost analysis. I have been replacing my top end model wading boots roughly every 3 yrs, with the first signs of failure beginning to appear within 1.5 yrs. By my rough calculations I need to make the soles last at least 3 seasons and the remaining boot upper last at least twice that long for this boot to be worth the price for me. This also includes what I hope will be the additional benefit of not spending time and money fussing with repairing and re-glueing failures on other boots as I try to extend their life.

Traction
Among the three sole options I chose the sticky rubber sole. I mostly wade fish, walking at least 3 miles on almost every trip, so soles tend to wear out quickly. Felt soles wear out the fastest in my hands. The aluminum bar soles offered exceptional traction but at the cost of increased price and weight compared to the sticky rubber soles. I had some reservations regarding the unusual design of the sticky rubber soles, the interior of which have a pattern of cylindrical lugs with slightly concave suction cup-like ends (with wear) rather than the star-shaped designs on most other wading boots. Scott explained that these are made with Vibram’s stickiest rubber and the lug design was modeled after climbing footwear to maximize traction on slippery rock. Wearing them in my house I noticed evidence of this as I could feel and hear the rubber sticking to my vinyl flooring even to this day.

On the river the traction of the sticky rubber soles has been fine, but there are limits. On rock covered in river snot, such as occurs in late winter-early spring, the traction is not great. It feels a bit more like skating than walking at times. Since these conditions coincide with relatively low flows on my home water it does not prohibit using the boots during those conditions, but they are not ideal. Traction is not great on smooth wet logs, but the same is true for anything without studs. I have had no major issues climbing up/down wet grassy or muddy banks, circumstances where they have been better than felt but not as good as studded rubber. On clean rock I find the boot will initially slip a bit before it catches grip. If you’re pushing the limits crossing in fast deep water, an unexpected slip like that might send you swimming. Consequently, I use the boots for a short period in early spring and then summer post-runoff through late fall as well as when fishing spots where I know I will not face the most challenging wading conditions. It’s hard to be certain, but I have a sense the traction is not be quite as good as when the boots were new. This is hard to measure accurately outside of a laboratory.

The boots come with screw-in studs to supplement the traction. According to Scott these studs can be used at any time because the pre-made holes to receive them on the boots are pretty well-sealed so the holes don’t tend to become plugged with sand. Thus, you don’t need to commit to using the studs when the boots are new. People accept the fact they will lose studs over time, something that is hard to take if those are expensive studs from a boot manufacturer rather than cheap, short-lived hardware store alternatives. Regardless of the stud you choose each time one is ripped from those factory holes damage results that will reduce its ability to retain a new stud. It’s a downward spiral that is a relevant concern for a sole I need to survive 3 seasons or more of long distance hiking. Scott claimed the midsole does a good job retaining these studs. I cannot verify this as I have yet to try the studs, but I have seen at least one review from someone who had serious issues with stud loss. Initially I wanted to spend at least a year evaluating the traction of the rubber sole by itself. After over a year of use it seemed like I had worn down the rubber sole a fair bit. I think it would be an unfair test of the studs if I install them now because they would protrude a good distance beyond the rubber, thereby reducing the ability of the stud and rubber to work in concert. In addition, the more the studs protrude above the rubber the greater chance of being ripped out while walking. I will try the studs after replacing the factory soles, whenever that day arrives, so I can assess their performance until ideal conditions.

Fit and comfort
Unlike other boot manufacturers I found that for the typical fishing season it was best to choose my regular shoe size rather than sizing up. The boots have a large toe box, which helps someone like me who needs that space. However, this sizing prevents me from using the boots in winter because I cannot wear my warmest, thickest wool socks as is needed for fishing in near-freezing water. I can wear them with some thermal socks (e.g. Alpaca survival socks), but any thicker than this (e.g. Alpaca superwarm socks) will not fit for me. I would need a pair of boots sized up specifically for winter use, which could be a good setup if used in conjunction with the studs. I tried a size up from my shoe size and it was definitely way too big for me to use under any circumstances other than winter with super thick socks so I ended up purchasing boots matched to my street shoe size.

The height of the boots works well with the gravel guards on my Simms waders. I have seen some boots that are taller than the height of the bootie, which could increase wear and stress on the seam between the bootie and lower leg portion of the waders. The boots come with insoles that have thus far been comfortable and durable. I see no signs of breakdown at this point.

The boots come with a spare set of laces, which is helpful and likely incorporated into the price. One reviewer complained the laces were too long. I completely disagree. Those long laces allow me to loosen the boots enough to slip them on/off without having to remove lacing from any eyelets. If they’re too long for you then simply cut them to the length you want. The laces are also high quality. On other wading boots I have found the need to replace laces after one season. The original laces are doing just fine after two seasons of use, something I have also seen on my Danner hiking boots. Moreover, these laces seem much less apt to collect burrs and other junk off weeds compared to factory lacing on other boots with the exception of BOA lacing.

Some people commented on the lack of ankle support on the boots. It’s true the upper ankle section is not inherently stiff although the heel section is stiff and stable. However, I have found that once laced up snugly there has been sufficient ankle support to navigate all the obstacles I have encountered on my hikes and in the water. I do typically find the need to tighten the boots up after I have been in the water for a short period, but this happens with every other boot I have worn. Everyone has their own preferences with respect to fit so this may or may not work for you.

Weight
The specs on the sticky rubber sole boots are among the heavier boots on the market. They are similar in weight to other boots I have used like the Darkhorse boots with Studded Vibram Idrogrip soles so I’m accustomed to this. You also need to keep in mind that the Patagonia-Danner Foot Tractors with sticky rubber soles have no foam in the ankle section and no water-absorbing felt on the soles. Felt soles will absorb water and add some weight. Likewise, although boots use closed cell foam it still accumulates water. If you don’t believe me try inverting your wading boots and squeezing that foam after your next trip. Doing so can help your boots dry faster.

Durability
Since the upper halves of the boots are protected by gravel guards during use this portion of the boots looks almost new and provides a basis for comparison to the lower worn portion of the boots. The Cordura panels have few signs of wear. The leather sections are most heavily worn on the toes with less severe scuffing on portions of the lower sides of the foot and the heels. When new the leather has a glossy grey coating. This coating was scuffed off over time. Over time I noticed that the scuffed leather portions did not bead up water quite as well, roughly after 1 yr of use, suggesting they were due for maintenance. The stitching has held up well. I only see one spot on one tongue with one small tuft of thread sticking out and a spot near the bottom eyelet (see video). There is a thin crack in the midsole foam on one boot. The cause of this crack is unknown, whether due to a flaw in the midsole foam or a scrape by some sharp object (see video).

The notable area where durability may be questionable is the soles. Scott said the boots had undergone several years of field testing. Thus, I was surprised to learn he could not give an estimate of the expected lifetime of the soles from their testers. For boots that are being advertised as having unprecedented durability I think testers should have been measuring the durability of the soles since they are most likely to wear out first. It’s easy to claim that it will totally depend on the nature of the surfaces where you use the boots. On the other hand it’s also easy to do as I have done, provide numbers on how far you hike and the general nature of the terrain to serve as a reference point for people to have some ballpark idea of what to expect. The lifespan of these soles is an important factor in the calculation of whether the boots are worth the price since the cost of replacing the soles is expensive. Wear pattern obviously varies depending on your personal gait. I tried to capture images of tread thickness in a few different areas. High wear areas for my boots tend to be on the heels and balls of the feet. In those spots there could be roughly 2 mm of tread thickness remaining. In other less worn areas the tread was up to 3.5-4 mm thick. I forgot to document tread thickness on new boots so I cannot say what % of tread wear has occurred, but perhaps you can use my numbers and photos to determine this. Compare my images (photos and video) with the photo of a brand new boot, which provides a somewhat helpful before/after comparison. I’m hoping to squeeze at least one more summer/fall season out of the boots, which is the bare minimum for the math to work vs the purchase price. That would be on par with what I have seen for Korkers studded Vibram Idrogrip soles, from which I also achieve 3 seasons of use if I’m lucky.

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Maintenance
These are full grain leather boots. They have been waterproofed, but like any leather product they require periodic maintenance if you want them to last and ensure they can be recrafted when the time comes. This will sound like a lot of work, but the maintenance is not drastically time-consuming. However, if you’re not willing to routinely spend 5-10 minutes caring for your boots then you might be better off with another option. Rinse them off with clean water and dry them after every use to keep dirt from embedding in the leather. Per Danner’s recommendation I use a PEET boot dryer as a means to achieve rapid but gentle drying that will not damage the leather by over-drying (no Seinfeld jokes please regarding "over-drying"). This usually takes about 12-14 hrs. Without the extra foam and bulk of other boots these boots do dry a little faster. Once dry I brush off any embedded dirt with a soft bristle brush. Maybe 3-4 times per season I clean them with Danner Boot Cleaner, dry, then apply either Danner Clear Boot Conditioner or Danner Waterproofing Gel if necessary (all as instructed by Patagonia and Danner reps). They say water-based Nikwax cleaner and waterproofing products are also acceptable, but I have used Danner products since they made the boots. If a problem arises they can’t blame a third party’s products. There are lots of great leather conditioning products on the market that would likely work just as well or better (e.g. Montana Pitch Blend).

As noted above, after about one year (50 trips, 14 half-day + 36 full day, 160 miles walked) I got the sense the factory waterproofing was wearing off a bit in the highly scuffed areas. At that time I cleaned the boots with Danner Boot Cleaner and applied multiple coats (until saturation) of Danner Waterproofing Gel, which restored the beading of water on the boots. See video for images of how the boots look after this treatment. The Danner Waterproofing Gel was not what I would consider long-lasting and started wearing off about 10 trips. It appears that I need to retreat at least once per year with this product under my usage conditions even with multiple coats. I have the sense that cleaning with the Danner Boot Cleaner removes some of the Danner Waterproofing Gel treatment so for well-worn areas you might need to commit to retreating with Waterproofing Gel after every deep cleaning. I’m told that it’s not necessary to obsess about whether water is beading on the boots, but I do think it is relevant when it’s happening on the most well-worn areas. Also, they say it is repeated wet-dry cycles that damage leather over time. It follows that the best way to minimize these cycles is ensuring the boots remain well-waterproofed so they never get soaking wet in the first place.
 
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thomasw

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Serious take on the boots; sensational detail in the review. For 2 years I have owned the same boots but with felt soles.
 

hatidua

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For 2 years I have owned the same boots but with felt soles.
I've had the aluminum-bar version since their release. I apply Obenaufs LP to them after they dry out each time and while they're scarred from sharp rocks and beaver-cut roots, the leather looks new each time I apply that stuff to them. The leather on the Patagonia/Danner "RiverSalt" boots retain visible scuffs more than the foot tractors do.
 
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zjory

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Fantastic review. Thanks for taking the time.
I have these exact same boots, bought them last year. Great to hear yours are still holding up well after two seasons.
 

bear99

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I captured images of the boots at various time points in their life. I will post some of those for comparison so you can see how they age either in this thread, if that's allowed, or in a new thread. Regarding the rate of wear on the soles I have a couple photos that allow as direct a comparison as I can give. I captured photos of the same boot matched as best I can to the same spot, camera angle, zoom, etc. It's a little like trying to capture images of a melting glacier. Hopefully you can appreciate my point about how quickly the rubber is wearing out for me. The images are acquired from the right boot near the forefoot, one area where I see the most wear. One photo (8177) was captured after 13 months of use (46 trips, 12 of which were half-day, 146 miles walked) and the other (9636) was after 2 yrs use (76 trips, 24 were half-day, 253 miles walked).
 

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bear99

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For comparison with the images captured at the 2 yr mark above, here are images captured after 13 months of use (46 trips, 12 of which were half-day, 146 miles walked). Note that these photos were captured prior to refreshing the waterproofing on the boots with Danner Waterproofing Gel. Overall, the leather portions look similar at the two time points with more extensive scuffing occurring with age. The most notable difference regards the extent of wear on the soles. Even without a ruler for scale I hope you can appreciate the rate of wear on the rubber soles. Were these a pair of Korkers (or Hodgman's) I could swap in a brand new sole for less than half the price of replacing the soles on the Patagonia-Danner Foot Tractors. Moreover, Korkers offer fit and traction options that allow me to use one pair those boots year-round. However, although it's too early to say for sure, the Patagonia-Danner boot uppers have the potential to last me far longer than other boots on the market. If they don't well it's not Houston but rather "Patagonia, we have a problem." These are the trade-offs and calculations that can only be answered 4 years from now, or less if they fail prematurely or the fit and performance change after Danner replaces the soles. Thus, there are many important outstanding questions with these boots.
 

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sweetandsalt

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Excellent review and analysis, bear, well done. I wear the previous version of Chinese made Foot Tractors with aluminum bars and though only three season old I'm enduring issues. The synthetic uppers are fine, however, the adhesive attached foot bed is separating alarmingly. So I've been wearing my back-up older Patagonia boots resplendent with carbide studded felt, regrettably the last such I'm likely to ever have. My communication with Patagonia customer service goes like this; oh, send them in so we can evaluate and offer you a credit. Um, here are cell images, no "evaluation" is required.

E21 015 Foot Tractors.jpg

E21 016 Foot Tractors.jpg

Now. I was under the impression tath Patagonia stands behind their product even when it is old and abused but these uppers are in fine shape and like you I clean and dry them after every outing. A Patagonia dealer called them on my behalf and informed his view was that there was a design/fabrication/material flaw involved. Not good enough...we want you to send them in.

Now, I don't expect them to send me a new pair like your Danner built new model but I would buy them using in part the applicable credit which is apparently not forthcoming. So, I took them to my favorite shoe repair man and he vulcanized then epoxied them and we will see how this works out.

So, here are my old Patagucci's last week during toad matting season.

E21 017 Patagonia Boot with Toads.jpgE21 017 Patagonia Boot with Toads.jpg
 

hatidua

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My communication with Patagonia customer service goes like this; oh, send them in so we can evaluate and offer you a credit. Um, here are cell images, no "evaluation" is required.
I have never had Patagonia not readily email me a return shipping label for any issue whatsoever.

Although your integrity may be beyond reproach, if only a cell photo was required to receive credit/replacement items I think we'd see a sudden uptick in the overall volume of cell phone photos being taken at boat ramps nationwide....of some random strangers gear in hopes that some manufacturer would believe the images are of the senders boots/waders/jacket/etc.
 

WNCtroutstalker

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if only a cell photo was required to receive credit/replacement items I think we'd see a sudden uptick in the overall volume of cell phone photos being taken at boat ramps nationwide
Sadly, I suspect you're right. Like what LL Bean experienced with people buying beat up Bean brand boots and other gear at garage sales for a couple of bucks and then sending them to LL Bean for replacement under the lifetime warranty. It takes just a few bad apples.
 

bear99

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For "sweetandsalt":

So I guess when you tell us you "caught a toad" we must remember that you could be speaking literally rather than figuratively. Hope you tried throwing a toad fly pattern that day.

Sorry to hear about these troubles with your boots. I have seen this very same issue on all types of my footwear in the past several years, as if something changed in the manufacturing industry. I suddenly experienced catastrophic delamination of the soles on my usually reliable near top-model New Balance tennis shoes would occur within 1 yr of mild use (i.e. walking around town). It was not an isolated incident as it began happening to every single pair (I was buying a new pair every 1-2 yrs). The same happened to my wading boots (although nothing catastrophic yet) and it has happened to many other folks like yourself. It happens to some extent with every brand of wading boot. If you think it doesn't then you need to do your homework. The photographic evidence in reviews is out there. Frustration with such issues is one reason I was willing to try the Patagonia-Danners - stitch-down sole construction so it's much less likely I'll have the same problem.

I keep an eye out for the earliest signs of delamination and immediately repair it with very high quality contact cement recommended and used by our local cobbler, Master Petronio's All-Purpose cement. Our cobbler also had some valuable information that might explain some of these universal problems in the footwear industry. He said the best quality contact cement contains certain chemicals such as methyl ethyl ketone (MEK), which also happen to be of use to those who cook up their own illegal drugs. Consequently, several years ago regulations were enacted that made it more difficult to obtain these adhesives. He tried using alternatives but found they were clearly inferior. His repairs would fail within a year. I can buy cans from him in very small quantities for my boot repairs at the cost of $10/can. I need to buy a new can every year due to evaporation of the solvent. It quickly gets annoying to be shelling out extra money and time every year because a manufacturer cannot figure out how to use glue. Unfortunately, it's like a game of whack-a-mole. Once you see delamination in one spot others will be appear and it never stops.

Manufacturers know about the complications of choosing adhesives. Jim Kershaw, a head product development guy for boots with Orvis, discussed this subject in an online live-streaming event 1-2 years ago for the release of their new Pro Guide Boot, the one with the synthetic molded upper (or maybe it was the Approach wading shoe). He said they had to test different adhesives to find one that would bond the midsole foam to that synthetic upper material. He also noted they moved away from using dual-density midsole foam because it creates variable flex in the sole that contributes to delamination . Have a look at the negative reviews of this boot. There are many people who suffered catastrophic delamination in the early days, suggesting they chose the wrong adhesive. In a more recent interview he claimed this no longer occurs. With the long list of adhesives designed for marine applications it's hard to believe it is that complicated to identify a reliable glue for wading boots.

Beyond these issues my reading of this field indicated there is another factor to consider. Midsole foam can be made from chemically different types of materials. Some types are more prone to hydrolytic breakdown in the presence of air. In these cases, at some point the foam will show yellowing and eventually crumble apart. For collectors of Air Jordan hightops this is a big deal. Serious collectors have special storage containers for them. There is also an industry specifically dedicated to repairing such collectable shoes. Hopefully, most wading boot manufacturers know enough to use polyether polyurethane midsole foam, which is much more resistant to hydrolysis. Polyester polyurethane is more prone to hydrolysis.

With respect to the response you received from Patagonia, this is standard for the industry. They might agree your photos are proof of failure. However, even if a product appears non-functional in photos I have found manufacturers want it returned before sending you a replacement. I believe it helps to protect against fraud and thus helps to protect the rest of us from price increases due to those fraudsters. Regardless of the cause, their bomb-proof warranty says you can send it back at any time if you're not satisfied. That's another reason I took the plunge with the Patagonia-Danner Foot Tractors. I know it's a tough pill to swallow to pay to return a defective product, but on this point I do give manufacturers the benefit of the doubt. They could do something like credit you the return shipping charges if their analysis shows a product to be defective, but the administrative hassle is probably not feasible for them.

Generally, I have heard positive experiences dealing with Patagonia returns. These costs are likely incorporated into the price of the products. Personally, I have only one interaction thus far. My pair of Nano Puff pants started leaking insulation through that reinforced butt area. It became progressively worse over time, which I documented through photos. And it's not like an occasional down feather poking through that you can pull back into the garment. The leaks pop up all over the place. I also provided them a link to a web review posted on a hiking gear web site many years prior of a guy who showed the very same problem happening to his Nano Puff pants. Patagonia sent me a replacement pair no questions asked and thanked me for my feedback. Problem is the very same issue happened with the replacement pair. I wrote a follow-up review reporting the issue with the replacement pair, and I never heard from them again. It's clearly a design flaw dating back many years and they appear to have no interest in addressing it. You won't see it mentioned in many reviews because most reviews are written after only a short period of use. The issue I described took a little longer to appear, like 1-2 months, but accelerated thereafter. Even on sale the Nano Puff pants were very expensive so it was a big investment for me. I would accept this on a cheap pair of pants but not a product sold as top of the line gear. Hence, I'm holding my breath that this was an isolated incident, and I won't be similarly blown off if it turns out that the Patagonia-Danner Foot Tractors fail to live up to the hype.

I would be curious to hear if your repair holds up. Good luck.
 
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JoJer

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I've fixed wading shoe uppers separating from soles a couple of times. Shoe Goo really shines here. If you really want them fixed, get 'em glued and sewn at a shoe repair. Worth what ever they charge, generally just a bit more that the large tube of Shoe Goo.
 

rsagebrush

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I've had a pair of Simms Intruder wet wading boots (no longer made) and they are on their 5th season now, I don't do any care at all with them (use hard put away wet then), the trim pieces are in shambles and I am getting some degradation of the neoprene here and there but the soles are still connected just fine although some places in the uppers are looking rather rough here and there, original laces too. I do a lot of hiking in them too, and not one stud has ever come out or worn out. I think they listed for $179.00, I have a second pair of new ones I got for $120 including shipping, my backup pair, still unused. I must say I'm amazed and the price was therefore reasonable. It looks like I will squeak by with the final season with them, or maybe I'll experience the long expected sole/upper blowout, maybe I will bronze them.
Thanks for the review of the Pat/Danner's, hard to find such thorough reviews on any gear, may be the best I've ever read. I always size up 1 size on wading boots but I don't know with the Danner's as I hear they stretch quite a bit when wet. My original Danner's from the 80' would get very stiff when they dried out and I use to wet them down prior to fishing, about an hour before.
Thanks for the excellent review for sure.
 
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