re-varnishing a wrap?

photoguy

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On my Far and Fine. The 2 separate wraps that sit at the female ferrule have started to become 'milky'. One wrap is right at the end of the section and the other is on the area where the wider ferrule transitions to the narrower rod...if that makes any sense. Only those 2 are affected and consequently the color of the thread below has changed slightly. I suspect that the varnish is no longer sealing them and that the cloudiness is the result of moisture. As an aside, I built this rod in 1978 and have no clue what I used to cover the wraps but all of the other wraps have held up fine.

Before I go and order 'fly rod varnish' I'm just wondering a couple of things:

-Is it ok to add a coat over what's there?

-Is the spar varnish available at my local hardware store any different than what I'd get at an on-line 'specialty fishing rod building' site?

It's 2 wraps, I think I literally need to dip a brush in a can of varnish 2 times to cover.


Thanks for any insight-
 

trev

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edit to add- Caution, the milkiness probably won't go away with an over coat, I'd try to cure that first, not sure how.
Ace Spar Varnish, Man-O-War Spar Varnish, are pretty much the traditional oil base "rod varnish", they tend to be slightly amber; MinWax Helmsman Spar Urethane is probably a clearer finish.
Exterior varnish provides UV protection that interior finish might not.
The problem with these is you only need 1/2 an ounce and they come in quarts. Matt Proof sells ManOWar in 1/2oz https://www.proofflyfishing.com/col...nishes/products/1-2-oz-man-o-war-spar-varnish
(He also has other finishes and quite a few tutorials that might be useful to you.)
I thin the varnish to the max recommended by the manufacturer and apply it with my finger, wiping as much off as I can, to get the thinest possible coating, better two thin coats than one thick bubbly coat.
 

photoguy

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Ace Spar Varnish, Man-O-War Spar Varnish, are pretty much the traditional oil base "rod varnish", they tend to be slightly amber; MinWax Helmsman Spar Urethane is probably a clearer finish.
Exterior varnish provides UV protection that interior finish might not.
The problem with these is you only need 1/2 an ounce and they come in quarts. Matt Proof sells ManOWar in 1/2oz https://www.proofflyfishing.com/col...nishes/products/1-2-oz-man-o-war-spar-varnish
(He also has other finishes and quite a few tutorials that might be useful to you.)
I thin the varnish to the max recommended by the manufacturer and apply it with my finger, wiping as much off as I can, to get the thinest possible coating, better two thin coats than one thick bubbly coat.
Thanks for that Trev, very helpful info. Do you tape the ends to get a nice straight edge?...or am I over-thinking this?
 

photoguy

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And not the best photo but I think it shows the issue of the ferrule wraps being discolored- lighter than the guide wrap. There also appears to be a crack line in the center of the wrap on the left and the edges of the varnish have a whitish appearance where on all of the other wraps, the varnish is clear.

 

tcorfey

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IMO, If you just revarnish, the color will still be off. You could try removing the old varnish with nail polish remover and a soft cloth. If the color is still off you would have to re-wrap.
 

photoguy

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IMO, If you just revarnish, the color will still be off. You could try removing the old varnish with nail polish remover and a soft cloth. If the color is still off you would have to re-wrap.
Thx for the input Tim. I had considered removing and re-wrapping but then thought- 1.) I don't know the exact color of the original thread (there's actually 2 shades of red that I used, one for the body and one to give a 'tip') I did this originally as a much younger man in the 70's with a more 'damn the torpedos approach ;) and 2.) I didn't know if any kind of solvent that would remove the varnish would also affect the resins used with the graphite. Might be better just to re-seal and live with the color difference than open a can of worms?
 

deceiverbob

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How old is the Rod. If it was made in the last 20 years or so, the covering on the wraps is probably epoxy rather than varnish. If it is varnish, then to me the most likely suspect for the milky look is moisture. I missed where you said you built it in '78. Gudebrod made a popular "varnish" for covering rod wraps back then. I think they are out of business now.
 
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photoguy

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How old is the Rod. If it was made in the last 20 years or so, the covering on the wraps is probably epoxy rather than varnish. If it is varnish, then to me the most likely suspect for the milky look is moisture. I missed where you said you built it in '78. Gudebrod made a popular "varnish" for covering rod wraps back then. I think they are out of business now.
Yeah...I built it from an Orvis blank in 1978 and have no idea what I used then. The only details that I recall was that I bought the components (cork/thread, etc) plus a handy-dandy wrapping machine (formed/bent wire devise that held the rod and the thread and clamped to a table) from Thomas and Thomas through their catalog.
 

tcorfey

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I was building Fiberglass and Bamboo rods back in the 70's. My fiberglass blanks, rod components came from Herters. But if you are more concerned about hurting the rod than refreshing the wrap color than I would just leave it. It took me several years of agonizing before I re-wrapped my rods I had wrapped in the 70's. Take your time, no rush.
 

osseous

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Thanks for the input. Are you saying to wrap *over* the thread that's already there?...or remove the existing first?
Remove everything- it's the only way it's going to look right when you're done- and you will breathe new life into an old friend

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

photoguy

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Remove everything- it's the only way it's going to look right when you're done- and you will breathe new life into an old friend

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Thx...I'm assuming this is varnish considering the year I put it on (1978). Any tips for removal if I go that route? I've been reading about chemical strippers but don't know how those might react with the rod underneath.
 

bonefish41

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I'd leave it...it has the rich patina of age. It does not have the aged look of air dried varnish either actual or urethane...it has the rounded/bubble look of two part...but you cannot over finish on existing wrap...you will need to remove the thread it will be easy if it is air dried varnish somewhat easier if synthetic ...however, with either finish material the repair redo "ain't gonna look" as good as it does now and it will be in contrast to the rest of the wraps...Wraps.jpg
Top is Orvis Boron blank about your vintage with air dried rod urethane finish and bottom is Orvis silk and varnish vintage 1967...
The ferrule wraps appear consistently lighter than the guide wraps. The guide wraps have the appearance of bleed through blank color as in no color preserver whereas the ferrule wraps are lighter and look like a color preserved wrap???
 

photoguy

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I'd leave it...it has the rich patina of age. It does not have the aged look of air dried varnish either actual or urethane...it has the rounded/bubble look of two part...but you cannot over finish on existing wrap...you will need to remove the thread it will be easy if it is air dried varnish somewhat easier if synthetic ...however, with either finish material the repair redo "ain't gonna look" as good as it does now and it will be in contrast to the rest of the wraps...View attachment 26125
Top is Orvis Boron blank about your vintage with air dried rod urethane finish and bottom is Orvis silk and varnish vintage 1967...
The ferrule wraps appear consistently lighter than the guide wraps. The guide wraps have the appearance of bleed through blank color as in no color preserver whereas the ferrule wraps are lighter and look like a color preserved wrap???
Thx for the input. Truthfully, I don't remember what I used on it as it's been too many years. One area that I keep looking at is the ends of the 'varnish' or whatever it is...how it's turned white and isn't clear like the other guide wrap. Almost like it's lifted and the edge of the varnish has separated a bit. That might explain the cloudiness that has appeared on this section vs the others.
 

trev

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The picture looks like epoxy to me, to fix the color you need to remove and rewrap, If it was mine I'd leave it alone. If you see cracks in the finish that you just want to seal, you might try clear nail polish.
I also think it looks like no CP was used, but it's all a guess.
 

photoguy

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Thx Trev. I should have added that the cosmetics are of secondary importance to me. I fish this rod regularly and was more concerned that the cloudy appearance was a sign of the finish failing and moisture getting underneath. I've ordered the small bottle of varnish listed above and thought I'd just do a wipe to make sure that it's sealed.
...and it's entirely possible that it's epoxy that's on there, I just can't remember.
 
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