The Streamer Techniques Video

Rabid Rider

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I am looking hard right now at making a single hand spey rod with a short head with mono on the back, and i really did not think about not having the ability to mend or do nothing with it after it hits the water.. Would it really matter on a 30 or 40 foot river? Reason i am looking at it is no ability to back cast. Talking about a 3 or 4 wt.
 

trev

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@Rabid Rider I think I've used spey similar techniques on small streams for 40+ years and the best line for it is a DT7F. (or DT8F-DT9F), but I can only get out about 50' with a 7.5' rod. I say I think because I've never seen spey in person and when the spey guys describe it they use terms that I don't fully understand.
 

pcalitre

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Hey Ard,

First off I just wanted to say great video! I actually found this on youtube while looking up streamer techniques and once you mentioned the NAFFF I realized who you were. I then came straight here and I’m now in the middle of reading through this entire Streamer Fishing post (I’ve probably skipped right over it countless times which I’m kicking myself for right now).

I have a couple questions about your leader setup and just keep in mind I know next to nothing about streamer fishing so some of these questions might be kind of dumb. First, is there a reason that you use the zinc sink tip instead of tungsten? I tried looking online for some zinc sink tips, but couldn’t find them anywhere. Is there anywhereyou know of that I can buy these? Next, I already have some Rio Versileaders, if I cut mine into 4 foot sections would that work okay for this leader setup? Lastly, do you always/usually use that 9ips sink tip or do you change it based on the speed of the current and the depth you’re trying to reach? If you change it based on current speed and depth is there anyway to make an educated guess on which sink tip to use or is it just something I have to do through trial and error?

If you’re still selling those braided loops I’m interested in buying some so if you could PM me with details that’d be great.
 

Ard

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Oh Wow a question :)

First off, the Z line I get through Steve Godshall at the RB Meiser Fly Rods shop in Medford OR. A quick google will provide contact info and ask for Steve, once on the line with him you can get Z-9 or Z - 12 or Z - 15 and the material is weldable. That's why I use it, because Steve had it and recommended it to me.

The use of the RIO Versi Tips cut to length sounds fine to me although you may need to figure out what the material weighs in grains as a whole coil and then use simple division to figure out what 4 foot lengths of various materials will weigh.

As for what weight I use the most I seldom go heavier than the Z-12 which is approximately 48 grains for a 4 foot piece. In order to avoid using heavier sink tips I revert to using my position and the placement of casts along with mending to reach desired depths. Once the water becomes too deep and swift I find another spot that may be conducive to my being able to fish there successfully.

The lengths of these mini heads at 4 feet may be a bit much for a 9 foot rod unless you are good at adapting and compensating in your casting. They are also not what I would recommend for repeated overhead false casting because that can be hard on connections and create a hinging effect on long casts. I've always used this sink tip system with either single handed Spey or 2 hand casting techniques but experimented enough to know it's not pleasant for overhead distance casts although not much different than the old lines that had an integrated 15 foot sink tip on them.

If you're using 9 foot rods I'd go to 3 foot sinking sections of Z-12 or T-11 which will provide 36 or 33 grains of weight respectively. If the water becomes more shallow and you start hanging up just alter your position and the angle of the cast presentation from across with mends to downstream with no mends and allow the current and swing speed to keep the fly off the bottom. Does that make sense?

Regarding the double braided loops? I have the materials in black (for sink tips) white and orange and have it in sizes ranging; 25 - 35 and 50 pound. What I don't have at the moment is time to make all the dozens of them that people would like to have. I am hoping to find a few days between now and June to spend making up a bunch and will then reach out to many who are wanting them. They are an interesting little gizmo.

I hope this post covered your questions without confusing matters, if you pursue this technique and stick with it I think you'll find it to be normal after a short time at it. I'm always willing to get on the phone with people to help fine tune things if they want.
 

thom

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Looking forward to the next video. Last year I discovered Ard’s tutorials and began building this style leaders for single handed 8, 10 weight rods. The sink element was T-11 in various lengths. Couldn’t be happier with the results. Thanks for providing this info.
 

Ross_S

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Hey Ard,
That was a great video. I am personally not a fan of swinging, I prefer putting constant or at least as constant as conditions allow action into streamers. But differences in styles aside, what you talked about in the last part of the video is something that everyone should be thinking about. Knowing what your fly is doing should be one of the top thoughts on everyone's mind. In basic words it is presentation, but on average people don't really stop and think about what exactly that fly is doing when it comes into and works it's way through a fish's strike zone. Also, that was the first video of yours I have seen since I joined on here. It was good to put a face to the name.
 
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pcalitre

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Oh Wow a question :)

First off, the Z line I get through Steve Godshall at the RB Meiser Fly Rods shop in Medford OR. A quick google will provide contact info and ask for Steve, once on the line with him you can get Z-9 or Z - 12 or Z - 15 and the material is weldable. That's why I use it, because Steve had it and recommended it to me.
Thanks for the reply! I found Steve’s contact info and will be sending him an email later today.

The lengths of these mini heads at 4 feet may be a bit much for a 9 foot rod unless you are good at adapting and compensating in your casting. They are also not what I would recommend for repeated overhead false casting because that can be hard on connections and create a hinging effect on long casts. I've always used this sink tip system with either single handed Spey or 2 hand casting techniques but experimented enough to know it's not pleasant for overhead distance casts although not much different than the old lines that had an integrated 15 foot sink tip on them.

If you're using 9 foot rods I'd go to 3 foot sinking sections of Z-12 or T-11 which will provide 36 or 33 grains of weight respectively. If the water becomes more shallow and you start hanging up just alter your position and the angle of the cast presentation from across with mends to downstream with no mends and allow the current and swing speed to keep the fly off the bottom. Does that make sense?
To start out I’m definitely going to be trying this technique with a 9 foot rod. If I think I could benefit a lot from a longer rod I’ll definitely consider getting one to try some single hand spey or trout spey techniques. I do plan on trying to really stick with it since I’ve been wanting to get into streamer fishing for awhile now and this is the first video that’s really made a lot of sense to me.

Since I’m taking a foot off the sinking section would you also suggest I take some length off the 50lb butt section of the leader too?

I’m pretty sure I understand what you’re saying, but correct me if I’m wrong. You’re saying in the shallow water instead of casting at a 45 degree angle upstream that I should be casting at a smaller angle since the fly needs less time to sink. Then I should throw downstream mends to let the current start pull the fly and keep it off the bottom. If I am right about what you’re saying should I still throw the upstream mends when I first cast or is that only needed in deeper water?

Regarding the double braided loops? I have the materials in black (for sink tips) white and orange and have it in sizes ranging; 25 - 35 and 50 pound. What I don't have at the moment is time to make all the dozens of them that people would like to have. I am hoping to find a few days between now and June to spend making up a bunch and will then reach out to many who are wanting them. They are an interesting little gizmo.

I hope this post covered your questions without confusing matters, if you pursue this technique and stick with it I think you'll find it to be normal after a short time at it. I'm always willing to get on the phone with people to help fine tune things if they want.
Those braided loops look really interesting and once you have some time to make them I’d love to get on your waitlist for them. I’m hoping to get out a couple times a week for the next couple weeks to try this technique out. I think it’ll do really good with the muddy water were starting to see on most of the freestones here right now. After I have some real fishing experience with it if I have more questions I’ll definitely take you up on that phone call. Thanks again!
 
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