Tippet Material

darkshadow

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Hey,

I hope this was placed in the right section....

I've been fly fishing for 2 years now, and have bought various tippet spools and my question was, what's the difference between the mono tippet material that comes in the 30 yard spools made by Umpqua, Orvis, etc, and the mono material that comes packaged for 'conventional' fisherman in the 300 (or more) yard spools?

Also, I have spools of some high end fluorocarbon made by Sunline. Since I have been nymphing more than throwing dries, and I see the benefits of using FC in 'bottom contact' applications, is it safe to say that this FC can be of use for tippet material?
 

mcnerney

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I can't answer the your first question, maybe someone else can.
I also use FC when nymphing as I like the extra abrasion resistant capabilities.

Larry
 

planettrout

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Hey,

I hope this was placed in the right section....

I've been fly fishing for 2 years now, and have bought various tippet spools and my question was, what's the difference between the mono tippet material that comes in the 30 yard spools made by Umpqua, Orvis, etc, and the mono material that comes packaged for 'conventional' fisherman in the 300 (or more) yard spools?

Also, I have spools of some high end fluorocarbon made by Sunline. Since I have been nymphing more than throwing dries, and I see the benefits of using FC in 'bottom contact' applications, is it safe to say that this FC can be of use for tippet material?
Might want to review this article:

http://www.stroft.de/tippetshootout.pdf

Personally, I tend to stick with Nylon and FC made for Trout ...for Mono (nylon) that would be Puglisi Powerful or Trout Hunter or Stroft for FC, Seaguar, Stroft or Trout Hunter...


PT/TB
 

boomslang

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Fluorocarbon is a good tippet material for nymphing and streamer fishing. I use mono for dry flies. Frog Hair makes some really good tippet materials for dry fly fishing. Dedicated tippet materials are more supple than lines made to be used for main line.

Hope this is useful.
 

silver creek

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Tippet is the weak link in the entire connection from fly rod to fly line to leader to fly to fish. It is one of the worst places to to try to save money in my opinion.

The tippet must perform several key functions. Strength per diameter is the most obvious and if you compare diameter to strength ratios, fly fishing tippet is generally stronger than regular fishing line for a given line diameter. A tippet is designed to give you the strongest connection at the minimal diameter and visibility.

Another important factor is limpness. The more limp the tippet, the less it restricts the natural drift of the fly it is attached to. Tippets are designed to be limp. Not so with fishing line.

Regular monofilament fishing line is designed to be abrasion resistant, since they most often are pulling lures and baits through the water, and are constantly being casted though and reeled back over line guides under tension. Older spin and bait fishers can remember when this repeated process would wear groves in the rod guides before ceramic guides were invented. A monofilament with a hard abrasion resistant surface will be stiffer, and makes the line less suitable for drag free drifts.

I buy and use tippet material rather than bulk spools of fishing line.

Here's the original Fly Fisherman Magazine article on tippets

2012 Tippet Shootout - Fly Fisherman
 

guest64

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I also like fluorocarbon, especially for the improved abrasion resistance and less water absorption than mono when nymph fishing.

I've seen the shoot-out, but I still have trouble paying 4X more for fluorocarbon tippet vs. fluorocarbon spin fishing line. So I bought a spool of high end, fluorocarbon spin fishing line and am giving it a try this season. I got a 200 yard spool of 4 pound test Seguar Invisix for less than $20 (about what I'd pay for a 30 yard spool of premium brand tippet). Its about a 4.5X and on visual inspection, it seems equivalent to tippet. The jury is still out in terms of on stream performance.
 

silver creek

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I'd like to see if the 4x (0.07") and 5x (0.06") Seaguar tippet material is really stronger for diameter than the Seaguar 4 lb test (0.065") line you bought.

The tippet material is advertised as 4.8 lb test and 7 lb test respectively compared to 4 lb test.

The problem with trying to compare the material during nymphing is that is that one never knows when a fish refuses a fly because the thicker line affects the drift or is just a bit more visible.

My suspicion is that in turbulent water where the nymphs are getting bounced around, the slight differences in visibility, diameter, and limpness do not matter, but the strength of the material does if the labeling is accurate.

I don't like the high cost of fluorocarbon tippet, but since it can be used year after year without degradation, I stick to the tippet material. With all the money I spend on fly fishing and going to Montana; I don't want to question why my tippet material broke on a fish or why I lost a fly on a snag.





 
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fly_guy12955

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I have been using Frog Hair fluorocarbon and really like it,,very supple and strong for the diam.....from what I can tell just by 'feel.' I know that's not very scientific but supple, thin and strong it does feel.

Now I might be way off base but I use the same for dry flies. I feel a floating mono line is like a indicator arrow pointing out that my fly is ,,not quite right...but maybe fish can't see the fluro so well. What do ya'll think ???
 

planettrout

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I have been using Frog Hair fluorocarbon and really like it,,very supple and strong for the diam.....from what I can tell just by 'feel.' I know that's not very scientific but supple, thin and strong it does feel.

Now I might be way off base but I use the same for dry flies. I feel a floating mono line is like a indicator arrow pointing out that my fly is ,,not quite right...but maybe fish can't see the fluro so well. What do ya'll think ???
I think that subject has been beat to death HERE:

fluorocarbon vs monofilament fly fishing North American Fly Fishing site:www.theflyfishingforum.com - Google Search


PT/TB :p
 

bigjim5589

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I've tried tippet material & bulk lines in the years when I first started fly fishing, but it's been a long time since I've used any tippet material. There was not much difference between them at that time IMO, except tippet was supposed to be more consistent in diameter. They were all nylon based back then, and I'm sure there have been great refinements since.

Every line made, whether for fly or other tackle has specific characteristics. There are many that are similar & many that are far different. Every angler has their own opinions, likes & dislikes, and preferences for what they use based on the fishing they do. Just like rods, reels, etc. what suits one angler well, may not be the best choice for another. There are many reasons to use tippet or bulk line, and depending on the situations, choosing either type is not wrong. You can choose the wrong line based on the characteristics of the line not matching well with the fishing type, such as a material that is too stiff, but whether you're choosing tippet or bulk is not a wrong choice IMO.

I only use bulk lines now. I'm primarily a warmwater & salt angler, so the refinements of tippet have not really been of much benefit to me. When I do get the opportunity to fish for trout, I still stick to the bulk lines, knowing that it may not be ideal. I rarely fish with dry flies, and when I'm fishing surface flies, they're usually terrestrials, so the need for delicate presentation & drag free drifts are not as critical. Terrestrials are clumsy generally & not often delicate.

For nymphs & streamers, I again see no benefit to switching to tippet, since bulk lines have worked well while fishing these fly types for other species. I'm sure others have good reason to do so, but it still boils down to the choices we all make for ourselves.

Currently, I use Yozuri Hybrid to make leaders & for tippet material, and also use it on some of my spinning & baitcasting rods, so for me & the fishing I use it for, it's a very good & economical choice.

With everything we choose to use in our fishing there are compromises. The only person who can decide what's best is you & you have to try different things to make that type of decision. What's been posted here can certainly be used to guide you, but ultimately you've got to see for yourself what fits you & your fishing.
 

darkshadow

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The only person who can decide what's best is you & you have to try different things to make that type of decision. What's been posted here can certainly be used to guide you, but ultimately you've got to see for yourself what fits you & your fishing.
bigjim,

i think you hit the nail on the head.

i come from a conventional bass fishing background and have run the gamut on the types of FC out there, and have always fallen back on Sunline's shooter models. I see the difference it has made in my 'bottom bouncing' applications, and there's no way I would look back and use mono when it came to those types of applications. I think nymph fishing is synonymous as far as the concept goes.

the only time i use mono or copolymer is with topwater baits, simply because FC sinks a bit more than mono.

i figure my tippet to my dry will continue to be mono, but I'll be using stuff like Defier and Machineguncast to see if I notice the difference between traditional tippet material and the new stuff.

my dropper back to my nymph will now be FC, and I'll see how the combination works out.

thanks for everyone sharing their experience and their knowledge once again.


-dS
 

ny yankee

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Fly leader material is not generally considered in "pound test" like a spin-fisherman would with a 300 yard spool. Spin fishermen buy line by 4 pound test, 6 pound test, 8 pound test etc. Fly fishermen buy leaders and material by the "X" rating which corresponds to a line diameter, like .005", not a "pound test". Some manufacturers do print a pound test on the spool, but if you are following the general rule of thumb to taper down your leader or following a certain leader formula, then you should be using the correct X number (diameter) which is from 0X to 8X getting smaller as the number gets bigger. 0X is near 25 "pound test" while 8X is like 1.5 pound approximately. Of course, different types of material will test differently too. You need to find out what you like best. It's all about what you need for a particular fly you want to present. You don't worry really about what pound test you have on, your fly rod acts like a really long spring shock absorber, along with how you control it with your hand and arm. You just have to remember if you have on an 8x tippet and a big trout takes your #22 fly, You got some work to do and some praying to do, and you're still probably gonna lose the fish!

That being said. No real reason you can't use Stren or Trilene or whatever if it fits the size of the fly, or are nymphing. Especially if you are after bass or carp. I have used Trilene for tippet when pike fishing but also had a wire leader tied in front of that due to the teeth. It was weird but worked OK on a 8 weight bass bug taper. I didn't have a good enough rod at the time. Anyway, that's the jist of it.
 

bigjim5589

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bigjim,

i think you hit the nail on the head.

i come from a conventional bass fishing background and have run the gamut on the types of FC out there, and have always fallen back on Sunline's shooter models. I see the difference it has made in my 'bottom bouncing' applications, and there's no way I would look back and use mono when it came to those types of applications. I think nymph fishing is synonymous as far as the concept goes.

the only time i use mono or copolymer is with topwater baits, simply because FC sinks a bit more than mono.

i figure my tippet to my dry will continue to be mono, but I'll be using stuff like Defier and Machineguncast to see if I notice the difference between traditional tippet material and the new stuff.

my dropper back to my nymph will now be FC, and I'll see how the combination works out.

thanks for everyone sharing their experience and their knowledge once again.


-dS
I fish with other gear besides fly tackle, and know many folks who like the Sunline FC. I know quite a few who insist they need a leader with braids, and many who tie direct, including myself. Again, it goes back to what is best for us individually.

I bought a spool of fluorocarbon years ago, and really never saw it to be of any great benefit, particularly for the extra cost compared to mono type lines. "Mono" now includes a lot brands and formulations, so they're not all the same, and that holds true for "tippet" materials sold.

And again, the only way to determine what is best suited to each of us, is try some different lines. I began using Yozuri Hybrid on casting reels several years ago, and in paying attention to how it acted in various temperature conditions, decided to try it for fly tackle leaders.

Ny Yankee, I can't disagree with what you've posted, but line diameters are generally available for any line sold now. For my fishing, and I've been at this along time, I can't say I've seen any benefit from a line material being a specific diameter although I do pay attention to it when building leaders. Manufacturing technology has improved over the years, and bulk lines are now no less "precise" in diameter than tippet materials, sometimes depending on the brand and where it's produced. I've checked many that I've used with a micrometer and yes, there are slight variances, but same with tippet. Diameter is important when constructing leaders as is other properties of the material. Too stiff or too limber will have it's affects. However, it became apparent to me that no matter how "technical" the manufacturers appeared to get with their lines, it all came down to the performance, and when comparing lines I've used, that's what's been important to me. Like a lot of things, I've learned what I need from my leader and tippet materials, as it's a sense you develop when it's working correctly.

This is not to say, that there is not differences in "tippet material" and bulk lines, that may be important to folks who use them. I found with the Yozuri line, it provided characteristics that I desired, so it makes little sense to seek a tippet material that does the same thing and may cost me more. Performance will always be what is important to me, and this all goes back to what I said about each of us having to determine our own course.

When I first started building leaders I got a bit frustrated with all the technical aspects of line diameters until I realized, it wasn't as important as what was being published. For example, if your tippet is .005 in diameter, and a fairly stiff material, it may act like a different material that is .008 in diameter by slightly more flexible. There's too many variables to try & figure them all out, so once a line is found that performs as you need, that's the important part. Yes, the line diameter certainly is important if it's too large to fit thru the eye of the hook, but not everyone is using tiny fly sizes, so most of what has been mentioned here is a generalization and line types should be considered based in individual needs. I use 20 lb test much of the time, so it makes little difference if it's .4380" diameter ( what the makers claims it to be), or .44" or .45" as it doesn't affect how I'll fish with it. The smaller the line diameter the bigger impact it may have on your fishing needs.
 

trev

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what's the difference between the mono tippet material that comes in the 30 yard spools made by Umpqua, Orvis, etc, and the mono material that comes packaged for 'conventional' fisherman in the 300 (or more) yard spools?
Degree of stiffness and diameter of material compared to strength test. Tippet materials are usually higher test for a given diameter and are designed to be softer and limper than casting line. Tippet materials also come in smaller diameters than casting lines do. In sizes bigger than 4X it doesn't matter to me which I use, because in the bigger sizes the strength to diameter ratios are similar or the same.
Some mono is designated as both tippet material and casting line, for example the Maxima lines.
 

darkshadow

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Wow, I don't even remember starting this thread!

When I did post it 6 years ago, I was 2 years in and no longer snapping flies on my back cast but was still wet behind the ears when it came to anything in this sport, and I am proud to say that in those 8 years or so, it's been an amazing journey, and I've gotten to see some amazing places that I probably would have never have seen if I didn't get into fly fishing. I also definitely didn't realize how much I have learned from being out on the water.

Having said that....

The only person who can decide what's best is you & you have to try different things to make that type of decision. What's been posted here can certainly be used to guide you, but ultimately you've got to see for yourself what fits you & your fishing.
This was sage advice.

I haven't bought tippet material from a fly shop since I bought the first 8 or so spools when I first started fly fishing. I ran the gamut in different brands, and nylon and FC based tippet materials.

Then, about a year or some after going through half of those spools (and starting this thread), I started spooling Sunline that I had procured from overseas that were collecting dust since I stopped bass fishing, and definitely liked what I saw. I wasn't surprised at the performance, but I was just under the impression that the little tiny spools you bought at fly shops had some different type of make up that made them different.

I get better sensitivity from FC when nymphing, and the abrasion resistance is pretty fantastic when fishing subsurface flies. I've tight lined nymphs as well and I feel better connected than when I used the regular leader material I originally bought. I remember using the hell out of a spool of BMS that not only served as amazing tippet, but worked as an 'indicator' tippet as well, since it has 3 or 4 inches of florescent pink every so often. Funny how that line used to live on my Stellas and transferred seemlessly over to my indicator rigs.



And of course, now my curiosity peaked, I started picking up legitimate "leader" spools as well. Their other models of FC are fantastic:



and



And for surface dries, I procured some excellent nylon tippet that hasn't let me down yet:



I cannot wait to check out their actual tapered leaders too! But I haven't found a location that carries them.



*

Like I said, it's been a great 8+ years.
 
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Martin53

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I am not as experienced as a lot of you folks. But to keep it simple. I start with 20lb Amnesia to 12lb Maxima to 10lb Maxima to tippet. Casts and works fine for my trout leaders.
 

darkshadow

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Question for the fishermen who create their own tapered leaders: are you not worried about adding more failure points to your connection to the fly?

I know some guys that use 5 pieces of mono/flourocarbon tied together and that's quite a set of knots there that they have to tie.
 

el jefe

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Question for the fishermen who create their own tapered leaders: are you not worried about adding more failure points to your connection to the fly?

I know some guys that use 5 pieces of mono/flourocarbon tied together and that's quite a set of knots there that they have to tie.
Nope. I use blood knots with the appropriate amount of turns. I think Orvis has some guidance on their animated knot guide of how many turns to use for what size tippet, but after a while you just kind of settle in and are able to figure out how many turns you need for certain sizes of tippet.

Some folks use a surgeons knot for building leaders, and I think that leads to knot failure. I have not experienced knot failures when building leaders with blood knots. The key to the blood knot is using some sort of lubricant to tighten it up, like ChapStick, fly floatant, etc.
 

trev

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In over 40 years of knotted leaders, many of which were fabricated on the stream bank while watching the fish, I don't ever recall a knot failure except in the tippet to hook. That doesn't absolutely mean there were no failures, but, if they happen, they aren't frequent enough that they worry me, or even register as a potential problem.
 

Bigfly

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Shadow....
Not everybody does well with knots. I sucked pretty badly.
But, I wanted fish, and they didn't make tapered leaders back then.
I was left with no choice but to get my knots on.
You find over time, that the good news, is that spending time suffering to lean how to build a leader, serves you well in the long run. Because after you get past the trepidation of leader stage, you realize you can craft a leader to the water, or tech used, or size of fish, or the fly.......
Focus, work through this, and you will be unstoppable...
Like Trev said....rarely have problems anymore.
But fishing over tackle testing fish helps excelerate the curve. I lost several "personal best fish" here, before my knots were quality.
Tie blood knots till you can almost not look while doing them....
I will also add that I'm not trained in neatness....
With knots...neatness counts.
As much as I might hate to cut away a knot right after tying it...I Will, if it's not perfect. The next fish I meet, might be Walter.

Jim
 
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