Tying the Albright knot between backing and flyline

sweetandsalt

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The Albright is an excellent and must-know knot for a fly fisher. The only knot for bite tippets and excellent knot for direct connections like butt to line tip or backing to fly line. Now, like many here with some salt in my veins I loop my backing to a loop on the terminus of the fly line with a Bimini Twist in the backing (a splice is fine too but I like knots). This is strong and facilities changing lines on a reel which I do with some frequency (I don't use spare spools).

If coating is peeling of the core of a line, either one is stripping it off via improper snugging of a knot or the line is old and degraded.

Recently I affixed a butt section of 40# Fluoro to a 380 grain intermediate line. Doubling the tip of the line I passed the butt through the formed loop and, rear to front, wrapped the material around the looped fly line 12 times then passed it back through the lopped line in concert with the way it went in. Then I slowly pulled the sanding line and tag end to snug things up checking to make sure no coils got out of place to cross on another. Then before getting too tight, and this is very important, I pulled the tag of the fly line loop while pushing the coil of the knot forward to make the line loop as tight and small as possible so no slippage of the tag can take place. This also compacts the knot. Then I tighter thoroughly. Because of the doubling of the line this knot is bulkier by a bit than a same number of turns Nail Knot which is also and important knot but the Albright is significantly stronger. When using the Albright to connect backing which I have done for others in the field but rarely in my own rigging, I use the tag of backing to ties a 4 or 5 turn through "finish" knot as one would with a Bimini before trimming it.

Silver, as you are the Man with UV cure resin, why would you use Polybond to coat such a knot rather than a light coating of the resin which is what I use though mine is, I suspect, interior to your formulation?

Albrighted Butt Coated with UV Cure Resin
T20 022 Albright Knot.jpg
 

alfaromeo

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i use a nail knot backing to fly line.. as i tighten the knot i roll it between my fingers so there will be no uneven spots.. then epoxy to smooth it out.. 30 years this way, no issues
 

huronfly

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I would never trust a nail knot. The nail knot tightens down on fly line coating and is vulnerable to being stripped off by strong fish. Albright or bimini, especially if you ever use a strong-ish leader, you want the weak point to be the leader!
 

alfaromeo

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i use a 20 pound 12 inch but to the fly line, in my 40 pluss years fly fishing from bluegill to salmon.. i never had a nail knot pull free from the fly line
 

moucheur2003

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I've never used an Albright to tie the backing to the flyline. When I'm knotting them I use a nail knot because it's smaller and less likely to foul in the guides. But I prefer to use a loop-to-loop connection so I can change out lines more easily -- for example, on a saltwater reel I can exchange a tropical line for a coldwater line, depending on where I'm fishing. Usually I tie a bimini in the backing and fix a braided mono loop on the back end of the fly line. I'll put Pliobond on the braided loop just to make sure it doesn't slip off. If I don't have any braided loops, I will nail knot a length of backing to the end of the fly like and tie a bimini in that. (You could also whip a loop directly into the fly line, but that's a lot bulkier.) Many newer fly lines even come with a factory loop already built into the back end.
 
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sweetandsalt

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Though the subject here is Albrights, the Nail Knot is an excellent and core knot too. Regarding the potential for a Nail Knot stripping coating off the core of the fly line, this is ameliorated by wrapping enough coils into the knot. By distributing snugging pressure over 12+ coils, enough surface area is covered to eliminate the "pinch" that can strip coating. I have done like Moucheur, Nail Knotting a hank of 30# Dacron onto the rear of a trout line then twisting a 50 turn Bimini into it to mate with the Bimini on the standing 20# backing. However, as virtually all new fly lines feature a welded loop on the rear, now I mechanically reinforce that loop with a 12 - 15 turn Nail knot and affix it via a Bimini to the backing. As long as everything is smooth I have had zero issues with bulk as the colored string shoots out following the line as Mr. Big makes for the horizon. In the salt where maximum rigging strength is a prerequisite, if one wanted a direct knot of backing to fly line, all things being equal, the Albright is a stronger and more reliable knot than the Nail Knot.
 

falconer57

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Yeah, the Albright, nail knot, etc are fine for a permanent connection. But for ease of changing lines onto backing, double loop bimini. Make a big enough double loop to feed a spool thru(twice) and change fly lines pretty quickly, even in the field. Besides, the bimini is thought to be the strongest knot going. All my reels are set up this way for convenience.
 

thomasw

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I find the albright knot rather bulky for the backing to line connections.

With my 6wt and above line to backing connections I do NOT trust the strength of the loops that come from the manufacturers -- I do NOT like them on any of my lighter 3-5 wt trout lines either, whether on the front or back of the line, although for different reasons mostly to do with bulk and splashing. I remove them and do one of two things. First option, like Dynaflow, is to tie a bimini twist in the backing and use one of my own home tied braided mono loops -- like Dynaflow, I use the Gudebrod braid in 25/35/50 test depending on circumstances. Second option is to strip the fly line coating and whip a loop using the line's core and attach that to a bimini in the backing. Very strong and slim connection -- I've linked a video demonstrating what I do. For my lighter trout line to backing connections I use the Gudebrod splicing tool to draw the backing up the center of the fly line and tie a very smooth needle nail knot -- strong and very, very smooth. With light trout sinking lines, I usually follow option one with a small 25# gudebrod braid loop.


Whipping a loop in fly line core to backing
 
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osseous

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That's not a splice- it's a whipped loop. Much better and easier way to accomplish that is with a fly tying bobbin holder. Wrap the line a few times around one arm of the holder, and then get it spinning in the air around the flyline, while holding the looped end in one hand, and the doubled end in the other. You can "walk" the wraps in one direction and then the other by angling your hands a little as it spins around. Finish with a hand whip finish and coat with flexible UV resin.

Better still is to remove any remaining coating with nail polish remover and just do a true splice in the flyline core


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thomasw

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That's not a splice- it's a whipped loop. Much better and easier way to accomplish that is with a fly tying bobbin holder. . You can "walk" the wraps in one direction and then the other by angling your hands a little as it spins.....
Thanks for correcting the terminology -- I edited it accordingly!

As for using a bobbin, I disagree with you. I have used that method -- I remember trying it when Lefty Kreh described it in a book -- but it is more difficult for me to get the tight touching wraps without overlapping wraps with the bobbin than it is to do it by hand as in that example video. It is an issue of line control. The whip ends up neater and slightly less bulky by hand - as a result of using less thread in the wrapping. Perhaps this not a case of which way is 'better' but rather of which way works most effectively 'for your uses/expectations'? As such it is a YMMV thing.

I have not ever used nail polish to chemically remove the line coating and then use a splicing tool to create a loop but it sounds like a very good way with both a convenient and very strong and smooth connection; however it wouldn't work with salt water lines having a mono core -- what do you do with those lines -- a gudebrod braided loop or?
 

osseous

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I make a spliced loop out of 16 carry GSP (Hollow Ace or similar), overlay the end of the flyline with the end of the GSP by several inches, and throw one or two short (essentially) nail knots over top with old 20lb backing. Trim the remaining frayed GSP and put a very thin coat of flexible UV on the dacron. I prefer this to CA glue- as I believe it can harm nylon and weaken it. Those locking nail-style knots are not weight bearing at all- they ensure there is no way the loop can slip.

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thomasw

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.... Those locking nail-style knots are not weight bearing at all- they ensure there is no way the loop can slip.
Excellent there point, osseous.

I put a nail knot there, too, as well simply to prevent the braid from fraying. I've seen some folks put glue or even tie a series of nail knots right up to end of the fly line telling me it gives more strength; but that defeats the very functionality of the 'chinese finger grip' of the braid -- seemingly weakening the grip of the braid on the fly line.
 

dynaflow

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The mantra here in Australia at least is to only use Nail Knots on 6wt.and under....above that Loop to Loop connections.
I think this may also be due to the fact that a former knot must be tied VERY well.
P.S.I've never had a factory Loop fail on any fly line.Obviously YMMV :)
 

osseous

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Mine is a loop to loop- the nail knot(s) are far from the load bearing portion of the connection- to cover the termination of the braid

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sweetandsalt

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T18 033 Double Bimini Backing to Line s.jpg

Here I have reinforced the rear welded line loop with a 12+ turn Nail Knot coated with UV Cure resin to preclude it ever opening. The backing then gets a large Bimini with its loop doubled back and knotted with a Surgeons Knot so four strands of backing shake hands with the fly line loop diminishing any potential for cutting the coating under stress. All the knots are smoothed with UV resin. No weak links and easy line switching...I travel with a couple extra plastic line spools for winding off a mounted line for exchange.
 

LOC

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post a pic










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Here’s how I roll. This is the standard way I connect a braided loop to the back of a running line. From here I’ll tie a Bimini loop in my backing and loop to loop. A strong but smooth operator. The key is trimming the braided loop flush with the nail knot at the junction. I’ll brush a bit of ca over the nail knots. Afterwards I’ll put a tiny drop of UV knot sense over the nail knot and roll it between my fingers and cure it in the sunlight.
 
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