What is causing my tailing loops?

[silver creek]

Quick update. I was casting my 4 wt last night, and there is much improvement. Something clicked when I watched the Maxine McCormick video. She has a tiny casting stroke and obviously isn’t relying on muscle. Keeping everything in front of my face made me simplify the stroke and minimize movements. I was on the casting pond last night and hitting all the targets from 20 ft to 50 ft without too many tailing loops. I still get tailing loops, just not as many. The annoying thing is that when I do a tailing loop I’m inclined to do a few in a row. It’s never a one-off. Regardless, the TLs are down and the accuracy is up.

You can tell when the rod tipped below the SLP to cause the tailing loop be paying attention to when the tail occurs. That will tell you when in the casting stroke, you shocked the rod.

I discuss the timing of a tailing loop in the tread below:

Late Tailing Loops

Hi, I'm wondering if you can diagnose where a casting error occurs based on when the tailing loop happens. If a tailing loop occurs late in the forward cast (i.e. when the fly kicks upwards and catches the bottom leg of the loop at the very end of the cast just before landing on the water) and...

www.theflyfishingforum.com

If the tailing loop occurs at the end, when the leader is unfurling; you shocked the rod early in the casting motion.

When the tail occurs in the middle of the cast, you shocked the rod and the rod tip dipped below the SLP in the middle of your casing stroke.

If the loop tail at the beginning of cast soon after loop formation, you shocked the rod late, just before the rod stop at the end of your casting stroke.

So pay attention to when the fly leg fly the loop crosses the rod leg of the loop.

 

[karlsson]

I just purchased my first 4 wt rod. I love the feel, but I am casting a lot of tailing loops, and I'm not sure why. I know that the last cast or the second-to-last cast in this video was a tailing loop for sure, but I think there were others in this series of casts as well. I am not sure what I need to fix. Take a look and feel free to share any thoughts.

Just skimmed the replies, so sorry if it has been adressed!

Your linehand is static. That means that while your rodhand moves the rod away in the backcast, the line is being pulled in through the rings, creating a hauling effect, speeding up the line. Now when you come forward, instead of creating the hauling effect, you slip line into the cast, not really accelerating the line until the last part of your cast, and in effect "shocking" the rod/ line creating your problem. Using a shorter stroke minimizes the problem, but doesn't remove it.

Remedies, move your linehand with your rodhand, this might cause trouble for your backcast, since you will loose some linespeed formerly introduced by the semi haul. Or lengthen your stroke forward, stretching out your arm before your final rotation, creating a semi haul that way too, that also mean lengthening your stroke to a point where it might not be comfortable, and you will the struggle when having to throw further. Or learn to double haul, so you create a bit more linespeed in your backcast, so you can get your linehand close to the rodhand during the pause and haul again in the forward cast, and smooth things out.

Small things have a knock on effect in a flycast, thats why they tend to spiral the wrong way out of hand. Smoothness usually takes care of it.

Cheers
Lasse

 

[The Repentant Curmudgeon]

Just skimmed the replies, so sorry if it has been adressed!

Your linehand is static. That means that while your rodhand moves the rod away in the backcast, the line is being pulled in through the rings, creating a hauling effect, speeding up the line. Now when you come forward, instead of creating the hauling effect, you slip line into the cast, not really accelerating the line until the last part of your cast, and in effect "shocking" the rod/ line creating your problem. Using a shorter stroke minimizes the problem, but doesn't remove it.

Remedies, move your linehand with your rodhand, this might cause trouble for your backcast, since you will loose some linespeed formerly introduced by the semi haul. Or lengthen your stroke forward, stretching out your arm before your final rotation, creating a semi haul that way too, that also mean lengthening your stroke to a point where it might not be comfortable, and you will the struggle when having to throw further. Or learn to double haul, so you create a bit more linespeed in your backcast, so you can get your linehand close to the rodhand during the pause and haul again in the forward cast, and smooth things out.

Small things have a knock on effect in a flycast, thats why they tend to spiral the wrong way out of hand. Smoothness usually takes care of it.

Cheers
Lasse

This makes perfect sense. Since that video was taken, I have gone out a couple times and I have shortened my casting stroke a great deal, with the back cast and the forward cast both happening in front of my face. The tailing loops have declined in number, but they are still happening and you may have identified a possible fix.

Question for you. Take a look at Joe doing a few quick false casts at the :28 mark:

I understand why the left and right hands need to move together when the left hand isn't hauling. But Joe isn't keeping his hands together here, and yet it is not screwing anything up. Is the explanation simply that by keeping both the left and right hands in a tight casting window in front of his face, he just isn't causing nearly as much of an inadvertent haul as I was creating?

 

[80302]

This makes perfect sense. Since that video was taken, I have gone out a couple times and I have shortened my casting stroke a great deal, with the back cast and the forward cast both happening in front of my face. The tailing loops have declined in number, but they are still happening and you may have identified a possible fix.

Question for you. Take a look at Joe doing a few quick false casts at the :28 mark:

I understand why the left and right hands need to move together when the left hand isn't hauling. But Joe isn't keeping his hands together here, and yet it is not screwing anything up. Is the explanation simply that by keeping both the left and right hands in a tight casting window in front of his face, he just isn't causing nearly as much of an inadvertent haul as I was creating?

He's actually double hauling. It's hard to see because his body partially blocks his hand on the backcast.
If you playback the vid at a slow speed you can catch his hand hauling at the 32 to 33 second mark.
It's a short haul simply out of habit and it's just a natural progression to his cast.
Most folks who have been casting proficiently a long time don't think about that part of the cast anymore.

 

[karlsson]

This makes perfect sense. Since that video was taken, I have gone out a couple times and I have shortened my casting stroke a great deal, with the back cast and the forward cast both happening in front of my face. The tailing loops have declined in number, but they are still happening and you may have identified a possible fix.

Question for you. Take a look at Joe doing a few quick false casts at the :28 mark:

I understand why the left and right hands need to move together when the left hand isn't hauling. But Joe isn't keeping his hands together here, and yet it is not screwing anything up. Is the explanation simply that by keeping both the left and right hands in a tight casting window in front of his face, he just isn't causing nearly as much of an inadvertent haul as I was creating?

Hi

Like LOC says, Joe is double hauling, pulling and feeding back line, but you can't see his forearm working, as it's in front of his body that blocks the view.

For a good introduktion to hauling, check out my good friend Paul here : https://www.sexyloops.com/flycast/the-double-haul/


Cheers
Lasse

 

[flyinflight]

My mom always told me it was sex before marriage that would cause tailing loops. It's probably why I am such an excellent caster. Unfortunately.

On a more serious note. On your back cast you have the rod water loaded, not only that but your line hand is holding still, so as you do your backward cast, you are actually giving your line a haul. So you've got quite a bit of zip on your back cast, but then your forward stroke is a little lazy without much loading. There is not much,"acceleration to a pop/stop." Its not loaded much, so even though you are not overly aggressive on your forward cast, things are a little out of balance.

So, both casts, forward and back, need to be more even, more the same. You're front cast can't be twice as slow or soft as your back cast.

Those tailing loops must be the work of the "Devil"... I think we all feel that way!

 

[irideaduck]

In looking at your video, it appears to me that the rod tip is not going in a straight line to your target. For example during a false casting your target "X" may be much higher (upper illustration), than during the final presentation cast (lower illustration). For the lower target presentation cast you would need to throw the line "up behind you" to keep the rod tip in a straight line with the target. If you don't change your back cast you are essential dumping the line in the back cast and creating a tailing loop.