Newbie Fisherman from IRAQ, Your suggestions for the right equipment

[haider]

Dear Fisherman

Greeting

My mother language is Arabic, Sorry for my grammars mistakes:sorry:.

I am Haider from IRAQ, 24 Years old, I am newbie fisherman :fishing: and I interesting in the fishing hobby, I like to spend my free time trying to enjoy as much as I could with it.

Unfortunately, in IRAQ there are no good fishing equipment, in my city only fishing line cost less than Two USD and fishing hook cost less than 0.25$, the quality of the line is the worst in the world (chicness product) and it twisted even I pull it out of the roller because it made of plastic 100%, While the hook is very weak and can easily be broken.

After about month of search on the internet and read the articles about a fishing rod and reel like spinner, beat caster, fly-fishing, I found that fly fishing way is the best for me and the easiest way to fish in the big river like Tigris, Euphrates and Lakes in my trips.


The budget is not so important to me because I will buy the equipment one time only and I am plaining to use it for a lifetime, and I need the best quality to ensure that.

And because this equipment is not available in my country I need to order it from USA and USA forward service company to ship it to my country via FedEx or DHL and this will cost me about 250 or 300 USD, I don't want to do that many time If I but budget equipment that might break in usage.

The problem in the fishing in Iraq is the size of fish; you might fish 0.1-pound fish or about 60-pound Cat Fish or Mangar 80 LB to 250 LB.
Moreover, to ensure there is no chance or minimise the possibility of crashing the Rod due to these weights, I will choice heavy line weight rod, I was thinking in 12 WF fly rod but I change my mind to 14 or 16 WF, There are good brands like Sage, Orvis, Loop.

Sage SALT Fly Rod –16 WF, 8'6'' = $850.00
Loop Cross SX Spey Fly Rod – 14 WF, 14' = $1,200.00
Orvis Helios 2 Big Game - 14 WF, 8'6'' = $850.00


I am confusing between two things, the brand and the WF size, Also why Loop make their rod length 14 feet, Don't think that's too long for 14 WF rod power because most of 12 and 14 WF Rods come with 8.6' lenght, so what did Loop use to make the Rod, New material or technology?

What is your suggesting should I go with 16 WF to ensure my rod will be in safe in any condition and situation or stay with 14 WF, does loop worth the money with their rod 14 feet, also do you think It will be better than Orvis with this length and quality?


Below some photo of IRAQI Fisherman, explain the size of fish in IRAQ.

I hope everyone shares his opinion :welcome: when he read the thread it's important to me, to make my decision and select the right equipment.

 

[SethO]

wow, y'all don't fish for minnows over there, do ya? Hooking into one of those beasts would be fun.

 

[gpwhitejr]

A US naval officer, who happened to be an avid fly fisherman, was deployed in Iraq and did some fishing and even started a fly fishing club. He wrote a book that might be helpful; you can get it on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Fly-Rod-Sea-Bag-Adventures/dp/193670224X

I spent a few minutes looking online, you have some huge fish over there! Good luck!

 

[mcnerney]

Haider

Welcome to the forum and the great sport of fly fishing!

Sage SALT Fly Rod –16 WF, 8'6'' = $850.00
Loop Cross SX Spey Fly Rod – 14 WF, 14' = $1,200.00
Orvis Helios 2 Big Game - 14 WF, 8'6'' = $850.00

Your fly rod comparison above is comparing a Sage or Orvis single hand rod to a Loop Spey rod, which is a two hand rod. Spey fishing was developed in Scotland (I believe) to be able to fish Atlantic Salmon from shore where long casts into heavy wind was required. A Spey rod can handle big fish, cast much further, with less effort then a single hand rod. Also Spey rods are much longer then single hand rods. A Spey rod will be anywhere between 12-15 ft in length, where a single hand rod will be much shorter (6-10 ft). Basically, Spey casting involves some sort of fancy roll cast, there are lots of instructional videos on the various casts on YouTube and we have a Spey sub-forum with lots of information.

Edit: If you decide to go with a Spey rod, which I think might be best in your case considering the size of fish, here is a RIO chart that lists several Spey rod manufacturers and details which line weight will work.
http://cdn-tp2.mozu.com/15440-m1/cms/files/ea6db6af-e2d4-4398-ac77-c0e5f6f5d11f

Here is the link to the Spey sub-forum on this site that has a ton of great information and well worth the time reading thru it:
http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...ey-switch-fly-rods-double-handed-fly-fishing/

Here are a couple of YouTube channels that I like for learning to do the various Spey casts, the first one is from the Ashland Fly Shop, casting with Jon, subscribe to that channel and view his videos, they are very well done. I'm just now getting into Spey casting using a smaller rod called a Switch rod, I like the Double Spey cast and the Snap T, so I would start viewing those videos.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOF8b9U7_TQ[/ame]

The Snap T:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_LtqhEInm4[/ame]

Here is another series of Spey casting videos put out by North 40 fly shop that is worth watching:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GdIz_YtuXA[/ame]

 

[spm]

Haider,

I can't answer your questions, but welcome to the forum. Those are some serious fish you have there.

steve

 

[ia_trouter]

Welcome to the forum Haider. From the vast range of fish sizes you mentioned, you will probably want two fly rods eventually.

A spey rod weight around 8WT or 9WT will land those big boys. 13-14FT long perhaps?

A single hand 9FT rod for the smaller 1 pound fish. A 5WT 9 foot long rod would be fine and still land a somewhat larger fish if you get a surprise while fishing.

Are you fishing the Tigris or Euphrates River system?

 

[haider]

Thank you very much for your replies,

I'm fishing in a sub-river of the Euphrates river in my city, It's called Shatt al-Diwaniyah.

mcnerney I'm so grateful for your detailed explanation, thank you very much.

from your reply I understand that Two handed Rod will give much more control while fishing in a big game, the Sage 16 come with Extended Full Wells and Orvis come with long cork hand is that mean sage and Orvis rated as a Two-handed rod, Do you think that Loop WF-14 will be stronger that Sage WF-16?

I have another problem with heavy weight line rod, It's the difficulty of finding the right reel, the only reel I know is Orvis Mirage LA VII and it's discounted by the manufacturer, is there any other good brand that can handle 14 to 16 WF.


Dear ia_trouter, thank you very much for your suggestion, but I don't have enough space to store the rod, and I choice to but multi pieces rod for the portability and easy storage, so that's why I choice one rod with high WF rated to ensure it will cover most of the fish weights without any problems.

 

[ia_trouter]

Dear ia_trouter, thank you very much for your suggestion, but I don't have enough space to store the rod, and I choice to but multi pieces rod for the portability and easy storage, so that's why I choice one rod with high WF rated to ensure it will cover most of the fish weights without any problems.

OK, just do some more reading before you decide on the proper weight spey rod. I don't want to ruin your first day here on the forum but a 14-16WT spey rod would probably land a dolphin or a shark. Only appropriate for the very largest of fish. Not much fun for small fish. You mention 0.1 pound fish in your original post. Perhaps it was a typing error?

Good luck in any event. It's a great sport.

 

[k_e_v]

Haider,

It is outstanding to have you on the forum. Good luck with your research and happy fishing

Kevin

 

[jpbfly]

:welcomean on the forum, there are tons of infos and lots of kind and experienced members willing to help here as you have already seen.

 

[haider]

Dear k_e_v and jpbfly thank you very much for your motivating comments, It will be my pleasure to be with fisherman like you in this forum.


Dear ia_trouter, thanks for your advice, to be honest with you, I'm taking your words in serous, I'm newbie and I want to take my decision carefully, my experience little and I don't want to make a mistake when I buy Rod from Loop or Orvis with good reel is not cheap so I need to take some time reading and understand the equipment.

about 0.1 pound fish that's right if I most of the fish size in my river will be between 0.1 to 1 pound, but in Lakes and Euphrates the fish will be much larger.

by the way, can you explain please or give me a precision table for the line weight to the fish weight that can handle it.

When you say it will not be fun for small fish, what is that mean.

 

[fredaevans]

Haider,

It is outstanding to have you on the forum. Good luck with your research and happy fishing

Kevin

Add my joy to the above; when it comes to 'fishing' you've landed in the right place. For 2hander fishing sign up/register on the 'speypages' web board. When it comes to this type of gear .... the folks are deep in informition.:thumbsupu

fae

 

[Lewis Chessman]

Hello, Haider. As a fellow newbie to this forum (from the UK) I feel sure I can assure you of a warm welcome here.

If I might say, the Spey Cast was developed on the River Spey in Scotland not so much because of the wind but because of the tree-lined banks. You just can't do an overhead cast along much of the river even if you wade deep because there isn't enough space behind to do so. So some bright spark developed a 'glorified roll cast' which allows the angler to put the line, which the river's current has swept straight downstream of him, into a position where he can safely and effectively roll it out across the stream, once again letting the river's flow sweep the line and his fly in a long arc until it is downstream of him - unless a salmon grabs it en route! He then takes a few steps downstream and casts a few casts there before moving further down the pool.

The weight of the Spey line (which is shaped differently from normal fly lines to assist the dynamics of the cast) is not to do with the size of the fish but the distance you need to cast - a heavier line will go further.

It is your 'leader', the length of nylon which connects your fly to your line, which is the vulnerable part in terms of breaking, not the fly line. You'll need some pretty high breaking strain nylon for those big fish! You'll also need a reel with an excellent drag to protect the leader - and your rod - from sudden jolts and surges from big, powerful fish. Others here can advise better than I on something suitable on the USA market, perhaps a big game salt water reel?

Spey casting is not easy to learn but it is joy to do when you 'get it' - and beautifully graceful to watch, I think. You use a different cast depending on which bank of the river you are fishing - If you cast off your right shoulder (right hand uppermost on the handle) you use the Single Spey if (looking downstream) you are on the left bank, Double Spey if fishing on the right bank. The opposite applies if you cast off your left.

Although Double Spey involves one extra action it is actually easier because the fly (and its sharp point) remains downstream of the angler throughout and is very unlikely to hit you. However, with the Single Spey the fly is lifted from straight downstream and swept (by the rod) upstream of the angler who must then execute the rest of the cast before the current carries his fly in front of him. If he then finished his cast with a forward flick the fly could well come up into the body or face.
I don't intend to worry or put you off, Haider, it's a fantastic way to fly fish, but without someone to stand by you and teach you I think it best to make you aware of a danger. I suggest learning to cast with a small piece of wool tied to your leader to begin with, moving on to sharp, pointy flies when you are satisfied you can sweep them safely upstream to make your 'anchor'.

Bare in mind that ideally you want enough flow in your choice of river to carry your fly around in a downstream arc without it sinking to the bottom and not so fast that the fish can't see and intercept it. If the current is too sluggish you will have to retrieve line by hand to keep the fly 'alive and lively' in the water.

Presumably, as a tributary, the river you are considering is smaller than the Euphrates in your pic. I reckon you could cover that with a 15 ft #10/11 weight so distance isn't the issue. You may well want to buy a higher weight-rated rod than that in order to help control big fish, though, so maybe a #13/14 weight rod would be better.

I can't emphasise enough how important a smooth, dependable drag on your reel is with strong fish. As said, it will protect your rod and your leader but it will also tire your fish during the fight and help you win the battle. Buy a good rod. Buy a great reel.

Having said all that ..... will you be wading?
Spey casting from the bank isn't really practical if the bank is heavily overgrown because of all the loose line one strips in every cast. When you wade it floats on the water downstream of you but on the bank it catches on anything it can. I would go so far as to say that if you can't wade your water because it is too deep (or something might eat you ) then you might be better off going for a single handed rod and the overhead cast.

I hope that's of some help.
James.

 

[mcnerney]

about 0.1 pound fish that's right if I most of the fish size in my river will be between 0.1 to 1 pound, but in Lakes and Euphrates the fish will be much larger.

by the way, can you explain please or give me a precision table for the line weight to the fish weight that can handle it.

When you say it will not be fun for small fish, what is that mean.

I don't know of a table that list fish weight to fly rod wt. Just realize that for small fish like in your photo, a small fly rod like a 2 wt or 3 wt would be appropriate and for those large fish a fly rod in the range of 10-14 would be a better choice. I fish for primarily trout and my rods are in the range of 3-7 wt rods. I use the 3 wt rod for small mountain streams where the trout are 6-14 inches in length. I use the 7 wt rod for throwing big articulated streamers in the spring and fall when the trout are aggressive.
You can always use a very large fly rod on small fish, but the rod will never bend and it will be no fun and it will be heavy and tiring to cast all day. A smaller rod is much lighter and easier to cast and it will flex during the fight and thus would be more fun.

Here is an article on choosing the right fly rod for big Tarpon fishing (100 lb plus fish):
10

 

[ia_trouter]

Dear k_e_v and jpbfly thank you very much for your motivating comments, It will be my pleasure to be with fisherman like you in this forum.


Dear ia_trouter, thanks for your advice, to be honest with you, I'm taking your words in serous, I'm newbie and I want to take my decision carefully, my experience little and I don't want to make a mistake when I buy Rod from Loop or Orvis with good reel is not cheap so I need to take some time reading and understand the equipment.

about 0.1 pound fish that's right if I most of the fish size in my river will be between 0.1 to 1 pound, but in Lakes and Euphrates the fish will be much larger.

by the way, can you explain please or give me a precision table for the line weight to the fish weight that can handle it.

When you say it will not be fun for small fish, what is that mean.

I can't give you a precise table. There are no strict rules. I can tell you from experience and will attempt to keep this very understandable. The size fly you might need to catch a particular fish has much to do with it the selection of flyrod and line. Do I care if the cast is delicate? That would matter. Many things might be considered.

I assume you are familiar with kilograms and will use that measure. Let's forget about two hand rods for the moment.

If I was going to try to catch a very small fish like the one you pictured. I would probably use a 2 or 3WT rod. I could use a 5WT. I could use a 1WT. I certainly would not use an 8WT.

If I was going to fish for a 2KG fish, perhaps I would use a 4WT or 5WT, I would not use a 9WT.

If I was going to fish for carp weighing 5KG, I would probably use a 7 or 8WT. I would not use a 3WT or a 14WT.

The huge fish you pictured, if using a singlehand rod it should be a large rod. Perhaps a 12WT rod or even larger. I could use a two hand rod that is smaller, like a 9 or 10WT. The leverage of a very large rod allows it to do the same work as a shorter rod rated several sizes higher.

Very heavy rods need very heavy fly lines and are tiresome to cast for hours. In the US we normally don't use a rod that is 5 or more weights higher than necessary to cast the fly and land the fish. Most everyone on this forum have many different sized fly rods. If you had two rods you could fish more pleasantly for many different sized fish. They do not have to be very expensive to catch fish and have fun.

Hope this helped some.

 

[Ard]

Hello haider,

Welcome to the forum

 

[haider]

Dear fredaevans and Ard Stetts, thank you very much.

Dear Lewis Chessman, thank you for your explain, I feel I don't know anything about fishing and this is the first time I read any article about it when I read your post, again thank you very much

Dear mcnerney, thanks for your explain and the link, I'll read it today.

Dear ia_trouter, thank you for your explain, I think I'll re-make my calculation, I don't think I need 14 or 16 WF Fly Rod, that cost more than 2000 USD for the first time, I really need to learn a lot about fly fishing, it's like deep sea, every time the members post in this thread I learn something new, thank you very much for sharing this information with me.

 

[hokiehunter07]

Haider,
See some of the fish and pictures below:

Striped bass:
Small to very large (20-30 lb common) usually use a 7-10 wt rod with a heaving sinking line.

Musky:
Larger fish (often 10-30 lbs sometimes as high as 50) requiring heavy large flies and usually a 9-10 WT rod

Tarpon:
Larger fish (often 60-150) requiring heavy large flies and usually a 10-14 WT rod

Carp:
Often 20lbs with the rare ones up to 50+lbs) Usually 6-8WT depending on the size of the fish targeted.

 

[Lewis Chessman]

@ hokiehunter07: Great photos and really appropriate for the OP. :thmbup:
Would you tell me, was the tarpon on a single-handed rod, too?
And what strength b.s. leader for each 'class' of fish? It might help haider to know.

@ haider: You're welcome. You obviously have a good grasp of English and I very much admire that, my respects to you.

ia_trouter makes, perhaps, the most relevant point of all - match your tackle to the size of fly you need to cast to catch the fish you most want to catch. Big, heavy flies need big, heavy lines to 'turn them over' and make them land at the fullest extent of the cast, that is, not drop short of its full potential (sorry, pal, it's easier to show than to describe!).
So .... have a think about the different species in your rivers and choose one to target. If you eat your catch then maybe the best tasting would be good or if you just enjoy the sport pick a hard fighting fish.
Whatever you choose, learn about what it eats, even when it eats, and show it a fly which either imitates its prey or provokes it to attack.

If you match the breaking strain of your nylon leader to somewhere the size of your intended catch you need not worry about a monster breaking your valuable rod, whatever weight it is. The nylon will most likely snap first, usually at a knot. You are much more likely to break your rod by stepping on it or shutting the car door on it. :doh:

I know I said before ''buy a great reel'' but I said that in respect of reels for big fish. For fish up to 10 lbs most modern disc drag reels are perfectly good and a fraction of the price you pay for a decent big game reel.

All the best,
James.

 

[kentuckysteve]

Welcome to the forum Haider.