New article posted on theflyfishingforum.com: Orvis to Acquire the Scientific Anglers and Ross Reels Businesses from 3M
Orvis to Acquire the Scientific Anglers and Ross Reels Businesses from 3M
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fredaevans
Well-known member
Very interesting read Paul, thanks for posting that up. And speaking of companies up for sale does anyone have any current info on Hardy? They've been 'on the block' for quite some time and not a peep as to a potential buyer
Fred
Fred
Rip Tide
Well-known member
In other news... Scientific Angler is offering 20% off on last season's plaid dog beds
:frogdance
:frogdance
waterfordcreek
Well-known member
Fred- I have been watching this also.
I haven't seen any of my trade publications in a couple of months...They have been on the block for a bit as you mentioned.
From what i understand, most of the issues where management. There sales looked strong. My thoughts are, the major problem has to be cash flow and lack of cross collateralization.(sp?)
Still interesting.
I am still digesting the Orvis situation. I am hoping this isnt the start of a trend.
NOT a big fan of Orvis, except for the great things they do on the conservation side.
Just sayin...
Jim
I haven't seen any of my trade publications in a couple of months...They have been on the block for a bit as you mentioned.
From what i understand, most of the issues where management. There sales looked strong. My thoughts are, the major problem has to be cash flow and lack of cross collateralization.(sp?)
Still interesting.
I am still digesting the Orvis situation. I am hoping this isnt the start of a trend.
NOT a big fan of Orvis, except for the great things they do on the conservation side.
Just sayin...
Jim
I can say this...
Those that I know that work for Scientific Anglers are extremely happy about this...
3M is simply put a massive corporation and I think it is the general consensus was actually hindering SA more so than helping them...
Those that I know that work for Scientific Anglers are extremely happy about this...
3M is simply put a massive corporation and I think it is the general consensus was actually hindering SA more so than helping them...
I'm not so sure that I am all that happy with this. SA has been a good brand and as often happens when this stuff occurs, you get the name but not the products. Orvis has been and continues to head in the direction of a clothing chain and hangs on to the fly stuff it seems, just because they can't figure out how to divorce themselves cleanly from us.
It isn't hard to find examples of these kinds of buyouts where the product and/or services have taken a dive on us. Worse yet is when these kinds of buyouts put the buyer in a less cash rich position, and any hit in the period following the buyout, can put the company at risk of becoming insolvent. I can see at least a half dozen things that could end in a less than good way for us, the end consumer.
It isn't hard to find examples of these kinds of buyouts where the product and/or services have taken a dive on us. Worse yet is when these kinds of buyouts put the buyer in a less cash rich position, and any hit in the period following the buyout, can put the company at risk of becoming insolvent. I can see at least a half dozen things that could end in a less than good way for us, the end consumer.
Not an Orvis fan either. I looked into their conservation efforts after seeing your comment. Other than a mild bit of partnering with TU, who I distrust with every fiber in my being, they seem to be pretty good eggs in that respect. :thumbup:
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Fly lines have to be such a small part of the business that 3M does overall I would expect good things to come out of this.
I recall when SA (3M) bought a few of the finest companies in the U.S. that manufacture fly fishing gear and spit them out in a very short time, never to be seen from again (non-compete clause?) except one of those companies who, many years later, started ramping up production of exquisite and inventive fly reels again.
I'm actually a bit geeked about this. For one I might feel good about buying Orvis reels again and a fly fishing company buying a fly fishing company seems to take things a step higher than bean counters buying relatively successful companies to drain the name and assets. Just a thought on why Ross was sold so soon after they were purchased by an investment group. In my mind I can see their new owners telling them to build in China and Ross telling them to go pound sand. Again, this is all in my imagination but it does seem plausible, no?
Having a very nice Orvis corporate store near me I can completely understand why Orvis markets the clothing that they do. This store is in a very high-zoot area where average clientele looks like the type who wouldn't blink about paying what they do for clothes. The markup on that stff must be quite handsome. In fact, I know a very famous wader manufacturer who also markets high priced 'lifestyle' clothing most likely because the rewards are so great yet no one calls them to task for doing so.
Since Orvis has been making fly fishing gear since the 1850's one would think they might know a bit about the business and the market. I know that Orvis is a name I can trust to back up everything they sell. This lessens the pain if you happen to buy a product that is a dog.
I would much rather see this scenario than have SA and Ross simply die or fade away.
Here's to a long and happy marriage between all of the great brands!
I recall when SA (3M) bought a few of the finest companies in the U.S. that manufacture fly fishing gear and spit them out in a very short time, never to be seen from again (non-compete clause?) except one of those companies who, many years later, started ramping up production of exquisite and inventive fly reels again.
I'm actually a bit geeked about this. For one I might feel good about buying Orvis reels again and a fly fishing company buying a fly fishing company seems to take things a step higher than bean counters buying relatively successful companies to drain the name and assets. Just a thought on why Ross was sold so soon after they were purchased by an investment group. In my mind I can see their new owners telling them to build in China and Ross telling them to go pound sand. Again, this is all in my imagination but it does seem plausible, no?
Having a very nice Orvis corporate store near me I can completely understand why Orvis markets the clothing that they do. This store is in a very high-zoot area where average clientele looks like the type who wouldn't blink about paying what they do for clothes. The markup on that stff must be quite handsome. In fact, I know a very famous wader manufacturer who also markets high priced 'lifestyle' clothing most likely because the rewards are so great yet no one calls them to task for doing so.
Since Orvis has been making fly fishing gear since the 1850's one would think they might know a bit about the business and the market. I know that Orvis is a name I can trust to back up everything they sell. This lessens the pain if you happen to buy a product that is a dog.
I would much rather see this scenario than have SA and Ross simply die or fade away.
Here's to a long and happy marriage between all of the great brands!
jaybo41
Well-known member
This is interesting, thanks for posting it Paul.
From the read of the article, it sounds as though Orvis' immediate plans are to continue to produce products under all brand names. I for one hope it stays that way and the American jobs stay in America. Who knows, this could lead to more jobs being created, and maybe more manufacturing here in the US. I'm hopeful of that anyway. I'll let time tell the tale.
From the read of the article, it sounds as though Orvis' immediate plans are to continue to produce products under all brand names. I for one hope it stays that way and the American jobs stay in America. Who knows, this could lead to more jobs being created, and maybe more manufacturing here in the US. I'm hopeful of that anyway. I'll let time tell the tale.
fredaevans
Well-known member
This has to be the 'story of the day;' hard to find a board that has anything to do with fishing that this hasn't been posted up.
newby
Well-known member
I hope this all works out in the end and SA as well as Ross stay the way they are or move forward in a positive direction.
It would be Silly for Orvis to end the production of Ross and SA products for more than one reason:
1. Bad PR
2. They would loose a chunk of potential sales from Ross and SA to Rio, Airflo, Galvan, Nautilus, etc..... since a lot of people buying SA and Ross would refuse to switch over to Orvis products.
Just two reasons off the top of my head. I hope they do well continuing the Ross and SA tradition.
It would be Silly for Orvis to end the production of Ross and SA products for more than one reason:
1. Bad PR
2. They would loose a chunk of potential sales from Ross and SA to Rio, Airflo, Galvan, Nautilus, etc..... since a lot of people buying SA and Ross would refuse to switch over to Orvis products.
Just two reasons off the top of my head. I hope they do well continuing the Ross and SA tradition.
mbchilton
Well-known member
I don't know the ins and outs of the outdoor retailing industry, but this looks like a good situation for all involved. SA and Ross now have the fishing knowledge of Orvis at their disposal. Orvis has a built-in distribution channel for the newly acquired brands. I can see this being a very good marriage. The argument that Orvis may start moving Ross production overseas can be countered with the idea that Orvis could start producing private label reels domestically. I'm optimistic.
itchmesir
Well-known member
Seems SA was doing just fine under 3M.. SharkSkin and the new Mastery Textured both released under 3M ownership and they both are some of the best lines on the market by far... I can't say anything as far as Ross Reels is concerned though.. Never owned one
I own several Ross Reels and like them. Fantastic drags.
What do you base the last part on? The way things are going, we are going to lucky if anyone makes anything in this country.
waterfordcreek
Well-known member
Dan,
From what i can tell, MOST of Orvis's stuff is from overseas.
Couple that with the salaries they pay in their retail operations, which, is close or at poverty levels kinda makes you wonder. The Walmart of fly fishing?? I hope not. I just chose not to be a part of it.
The business models are there, to design and manufacture right here in the states. I guess it all boils down to the bottom line or greed.
Just sayin....
Jim
From what i can tell, MOST of Orvis's stuff is from overseas.
Couple that with the salaries they pay in their retail operations, which, is close or at poverty levels kinda makes you wonder. The Walmart of fly fishing?? I hope not. I just chose not to be a part of it.
The business models are there, to design and manufacture right here in the states. I guess it all boils down to the bottom line or greed.
Just sayin....
Jim
caseywise
Well-known member
ross has already moved allot of their production overseas.
this merger, as it paines me to say, may well be the end
of ross as we know it
its gonna be an interesting time in our industry in the near
future to say the least
casey
this merger, as it paines me to say, may well be the end
of ross as we know it
its gonna be an interesting time in our industry in the near
future to say the least
casey
fyshstykr
Well-known member
The company I work for, as well as a local major ski producer are actually bringing jobs back home to the USA from China. It seems manufacturing issues, quality, design change delay, wage increases, and potential tax advantages are showing that's there are some advantages to being stateside.
I doubt the day will ever come that we see all our jobs come home, but it's nice to see potential changes coming.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with this Orvis addition.
I doubt the day will ever come that we see all our jobs come home, but it's nice to see potential changes coming.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with this Orvis addition.
shotgunfly
Well-known member
I don't know much about the industry so I'm guessing and hoping a bit here:
1. Ross makes reels in the US right? I owned one. Maybe Orvis will leverage those tools and workers to make some US reels. Do they make any reels in the US? I think all are currently made in S.Korean.
2. Yeah, I'm a bit of an Orvis fan. That includes some of their 'lifestyle' stuff. I've been told that when they develop a new rod they "borrow" money from their other retail sales (home/lifestyle) to develop it. I mean face it, there just aren't enough people buying fly gear to support the biz. Not that they need experienced fly fishing team members, but having a little more weight/credit/resources in that area can't hurt.
I suspect they'll play nice and let Ross and SA continue as they are and develop some new products labeled Orvis. Sounds good to me so long as they keep every person working for them employed.
1. Ross makes reels in the US right? I owned one. Maybe Orvis will leverage those tools and workers to make some US reels. Do they make any reels in the US? I think all are currently made in S.Korean.
2. Yeah, I'm a bit of an Orvis fan. That includes some of their 'lifestyle' stuff. I've been told that when they develop a new rod they "borrow" money from their other retail sales (home/lifestyle) to develop it. I mean face it, there just aren't enough people buying fly gear to support the biz. Not that they need experienced fly fishing team members, but having a little more weight/credit/resources in that area can't hurt.
I suspect they'll play nice and let Ross and SA continue as they are and develop some new products labeled Orvis. Sounds good to me so long as they keep every person working for them employed.
sweetandsalt
Well-known member
SA has been making Orvis's lines for them for decades, obviously that will continue. Orvis has been reel challenged for some time; a collaboration with Ross both in CO and Asia could improve both brands product. Jim LaPage is departing VT to be Pres. of SA/Ross. Jim, a long time highly accomplished Orvisite, was responsible for some great reels in the past like Ard's beloved Odyssey. Jackster revealses above that seminal designer, fly line guru, Bruce Richards, is coming out of retirement in Montana to re-join SA...this is major news.
Sceptical at first, I am becoming optimistic now.
Sceptical at first, I am becoming optimistic now.
mbchilton
Well-known member
US manufacturing is growing. Made in USA is important to consumers, particularly younger people. There was a great article in Time Magazine a couple weeks ago. How ‘Made in the USA’ is Making a Comeback | TIME.com It talks about how the relative savings of outsourcing is dwindling as wages in China grow, and the strength of the Yen to the dollar increases. 3D printing is a big part of the new American manufacturing.