Interesting idea for you folks who use 'Beads' for 'Bait.'

[fredaevans]

Interesting new take on threading beads on leaders, you can even 'make flies' with this thing. Hevi-Beads™ - Revolutionary!

You could probably do a passable job with a (fly) bodkin threader, a box of rubber bands and a trip to a sewing bead shop? That aside, the beads here have a major 'cool factor.'unk:

 

[dhayden]

You could probably do a passable job with a (fly) bodkin threader, a box of rubber bands and a trip to a sewing bead shop?

Yup, when I use beads, this is exactly what I use

 

[fredaevans]

Didn't think my idea had to be original Dave, and you've just proved that.

 

[nrp5087]

As soon as i saw this I was very interested... However in PA these are illegal and any fish hooked on the outside of the mouth must be released. The only way I could use them is if I put them on the hook somehow... Of course I dont think that makes sense because when a fish eats an egg they swallow it and the hook may do internal damage to the fish. I would rather have the fish get hooked on the outside of the mouth rather than internally where the hook may not be retrieved... I think Im going to buy these and figure something out. If all else fails ill use them in Alaska next time I go up

 

[fredaevans]

Interesting nrp. So a trailer hook on a fly (part of its normal construction) would be a 'no-no?' Thinking patterns like the Intruder, Waddington Shanks, many tube flies, etc. Here in the PNW we also had such a regulation but that was changed several years back to hook any where 'north of the gill plate.'

Fred

 

[Guest1]

I would rather have the fish get hooked on the outside of the mouth rather than internally where the hook may not be retrieved...

I like circle hooks for just that reason. On stuff where they have a chance to completely devour something before I know they are there I try and always use them. It takes a bit of mental adjustment to stop hook setting but it saves a lot of fish.

It's not fly fishing but, I used to fish Lake Sturgeon a ton. Little Walleye would pick up bait off the bottom and just give the rod tip a tiny wiggle. You had to assume it was a Sturgeon because that's all they do a lot of the time. I'd give it the big Sturgeon hookset and here would be this poor little Walleye about half turned inside out. I went home with limits of tiny Walleye I had accidentaly assasinated. I switched to circle hooks and dropped the dead Walleye down to nearly zero. If there is an offset in the hook, remove it with pliars. Offsets are for selling but don't help. It actually makes them less safe for the fish.

I also figured out how to catch Sturgeon on a fly. Yes, zero bait. I also tie those flies on circle hooks for the same reason.

 

[plecain]

As soon as i saw this I was very interested... However in PA these are illegal and any fish hooked on the outside of the mouth must be released.

Illegal in NH, too.

Snagging is illegal and is defined: "Snagging, snatching, or lifting: The taking or attempting to take of any fish by foul hooking; that is, hooking the fish in any part of the body other than inside the mouth."

And: "Any fish accidentally snagged must be immediately released to the water."

Not a problem if you're catching and releasing, anyway.
For some reason I seem to snag more brown trout than any other kind, even using a single fly.

 

[Ard]

I Know I Should Not Do This But....................

If I were fishing for trout with a fly rod I would like to use something like this.

If they were not feeding on the surface because of cold weather one of these would be cool.

Or even one of these these;

Of course there may be days when I may not catch as many fish as I would were I to carry a bag of plastic beads, floats, and weights, but I always seem to have caught enough to satisfy the idea that fly fishing with hand tied flies and streamers was pretty effective and fun. I guess at heart I may have a tendency toward tradition or perhaps art, or maybe it's just that I wanted to be a little different. I don't know what made me want a fly rod all those years ago. I was catching plenty of fish using my little St. Croix Ultra Light spinning rod and my Eagle Claw Golden Eagle reel (I still have the reel) but something about fly casting & tying drew me in.

It didn't take long to find that some days I may be able to catch more fish with bait than I was catching on flies. However that was more closely related to my skills as a fly fisherman than it was to the shortcomings of the fly. Back then I carried the old spinning rig along for when I gave in to the need to prove myself. As the years passed I became more serious about wanting to be more than someone who carried a fly rod when fishing but would do whatever it took to catch a fish. It was then that I began to learn how to catch fish consistently using hand made artificial flies that imitated insects and forage fishes that trout eat every day. Perhaps that is why I shake my head when I hear stories about beads and 'nymph rigs'.

Everyone has heard the Old Wives Tale, that fly fisherman are an elite bunch who look down their noses at other ways and means of fishing. For me that ideology came and went, it was however replaced by a certain subliminal scorn held for the use of non traditional paraphernalia attached to the leader which is attached to a fly rod. This I can not change and I know it will not subside with time as did my disdain for 'hardware fishermen'. I see a person using spinning gear and lures / bait as a person who has made a choice regarding how they fish. People who make choices are to be respected, at least that's how I feel about it when it comes to fishing. When I see a person using other than traditional fishing flies and tackle (an outline of which can be found described in writings spanning more than 530 years) I see someone who is still worried that he or she may not be able to catch a fish by fly fishing. There may be or will be, days when you may not catch a fish without indi rigs or beads but it is those days set before you that you are to ponder & figure out 'why'. That day is the time of actual advancement if you reflect on the happenings and conditions and strive to understand 'why' you were not successful. If you learn this game by always doing whatever the herd is doing so that you have the best possible chance of feeling that trout struggling on that taunt line you may be missing the very heart and soul of what it means to be a fly fisherman.

Of course I could go on, there is every possibility that some have read what I said and completely disagree with my opinion; my thoughts. They can not be altered, not even by a run of fish-less days. I use those days my friend, and I use them well, so that when I have fit all the pieces of the puzzle together and have one of those days that many dream of I can say, that happened because I learned to fly fish.

Ard

The fish was dead when the picture taken, it was killed and eaten. That smile was a matter of pride, no weight and a traditional wet fly presented in the current with my fly rod. It took a life time but I figured out how to do it with consistency. BTW, I don't post many pictures of fish but I thought the one above would help to give relevance to my words.

 

[dhayden]

If the bead is close to the hook (like I mentioned about 1" to 1.5") - the fish is hooked inside the mouth, in the lip, just like a normal fly. I've never had one gut hooked either. I'm sure some are hooked outside the mouth, but the vast majority, are hooked normally.

 

[klunker]

I use beads along with yarn eggs, nymphs and streamers for Steelhead and Trout. Beads are just another "fly" at the end of your tippet. They are type of plastic just like EP Fibers, Flastabou, Estaz Chenille and Mcfly Foam along of dozens of other synthetic materials. So I am still "fly-fishing" when using beads.

As far as foul hooking with beads, it happens no more than when fishing with a nymph or a yarn egg or any other fly. I have caught dozens of Steelhead and Trout with beads. It is very rare to catch one with the hook stuck on the outside of the mouth. Its no more "snagging" than using a nymph. The fish actively decides to take the bead.

As for this system. Its just another way to "peg" the bead to the line. I use Jelly cord already cut to size. I produce no scrap or waste. With this system I can see lots of little bits of rubber band being left around the stream. Also more "stuff" is required to haul around while fishing. So to me the "pegging" end of it is not any better but worse than what I do now.

As far as adding feathers and what ever to make a "fly". More stuff to lug around on the river. Feathers, flash and whatever else you need to make a fly. More waste left at the river. Why not make up your fly ahead of time and leave all the waste and tools at home.

Interesting system, but I'll stick to what I do now as I don't see any advantage worth carting all the extra stuff around.

 

[bradyb]

I use beads along with yarn eggs, nymphs and streamers for Steelhead and Trout. Beads are just another "fly" at the end of your tippet. They are type of plastic just like EP Fibers, Flastabou, Estaz Chenille and Mcfly Foam along of dozens of other synthetic materials. So I am still "fly-fishing" when using beads.

As far as foul hooking with beads, it happens no more than when fishing with a nymph or a yarn egg or any other fly. I have caught dozens of Steelhead and Trout with beads. It is very rare to catch one with the hook stuck on the outside of the mouth. Its no more "snagging" than using a nymph. The fish actively decides to take the bead.

As for this system. Its just another way to "peg" the bead to the line. I use Jelly cord already cut to size. I produce no scrap or waste. With this system I can see lots of little bits of rubber band being left around the stream. Also more "stuff" is required to haul around while fishing. So to me the "pegging" end of it is not any better but worse than what I do now.

As far as adding feathers and what ever to make a "fly". More stuff to lug around on the river. Feathers, flash and whatever else you need to make a fly. More waste left at the river. Why not make up your fly ahead of time and leave all the waste and tools at home.

Interesting system, but I'll stick to what I do now as I don't see any advantage worth carting all the extra stuff around.

It's bead fishing with a fly rod. If that's your thing and it's legal where you fish,..great. But no need to convince yourself you're fly fishing. If no one sat down at a vice (or simply in hand) and tied it, it's not a fly, plain and simple. It's bead fishing, and that's ok.

 

[wt bash]

Exactly!!! Between Ards answer and BradyB's there's not much more to say in that respect.

 

[fredaevans]

It's bead fishing with a fly rod. If that's your thing and it's legal where you fish,..great. But no need to convince yourself you're fly fishing. If no one sat down at a vice (or simply in hand) and tied it, it's not a fly, plain and simple. It's bead fishing, and that's ok.

Nothing against using 'beads,' but here in Oar-E-Gone they're classified as 'lures,' not flies, in the Game Regs.

 

[klunker]

I know the use of beads rubs some of the more "purists" (for lack of better term) the wrong way. I don't mean to offend, but I look at things in a simple logical manner.

If I am using a FLY ROD to cast my FLY LINE and at the end of the leader I tie a nymph I am then FLY FISHING. Or am I just nymph fishing with a fly rod? But you say a nymph is a type of fly.

OK, If I tie on a Popper instead of the Nymph am I now just Popper fishing with a fly rod? or am I still fly fishing? is a popper still a fly? That's a little trickier to answer. The "fly" popper is the same as a popper that a spin fisherman uses on his spinning rod only its usually smaller. Does the size of the popper make it a fly if its too small to cast with a spinning rod? That can't be the case because then all sorts of "lures" that are too small to cast with a spinning rod then become flies. Or is it a fly because it has some hackles tied on the back of it? That can't be. There are all sorts of flies that are made only from foam and rubber bands that look like hoppers, beetles and any sort of bug. Besides that I have fished with poppers that had the hackles come off of them. At that point they would of become something other than a fly. What I don't know or care.

So its obvious that a fly can be made of any number of things besides feathers, hair or fur. Synthetic materials are used in making flies. Does it matter the shape of the synthetic material for it to be a fly? Foam is used in alot of different shapes on many flies. If I take a round "bead" and put it on a hook is it a fly? Getting a little trickier now. How much hair/fur/feathers do I need to add to that bead to make it a fly?

And don't tell me it has to be tied on a hook. That is not the case. Just like the bare hook when using a bead a tube fly uses a bare hook. Maybe tube flies are not really flies but "tubes". But I think all of you will be OK with tubes as real flies. Because the feathers and fur on the tube look more like a "traditional" fly. If that's so then a fly has to look a certain way for you to call it a fly.

So we see that the hook can be bare and still be fly fishing. Unless tubes are not flies.

The description or definition of a fly is very tricky as you can see.


If I have to have a "traditional" fly on the end of the line to be fly fishing is using a bobber on a spinning rod with a fly at the end of the whole thing then fly fishing? Of course not. It's still spin fishing. The Fly on the end of the line is irrelevant to the type of fishing. A fly is nothing more than a devise to attract a fish. Same as a lure or live bait.

So then the Fly at the end of the line does not make it fly fishing or the spin fisherman with the bobber is fly fishing.

So what makes it fly fishing fly fishing?

Simple, using a fly rod to cast fly line is fly fishing. Whether you have a nymph, streamer, tube or even a lowly bead at the end of your line when you use the line to cast your fly/lure your fly fishing. Only a purist would argue that you have to have a fly at the end in addition to the fly rod and fly line then make all sorts of contortions and start playing with semantics to define a fly.

I don't mean to offend but, if your offended maybe your a purist. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't care to pick nits over what a fly is. If you want to say I'm bead fishing with a fly rod that's fine by me. I don't really care what you think, its of no consequence to me. I just want to know are you going to then say anyone fishing with a popper is popper fishing with a fly rod? And what about tube fishing with a fly rod? Why do you feel the need to break it down more rather than just simply calling it all fly fishing? Is it simply because you really don't accept fishing with beads? That's fine too. Just be honest about it. We all don't see things the same way. Do I have to fish to your standards and sensibilities before I am fly fishing? Just curious.

None of this was meant to start a pissing war or get anyone's undies in a knot. I just put this out there to provoke some thought and hopefully some self introspection. To me, I like taking my fly rod out, tying on a bead, a yarn egg, a streamer or maybe even a popper, and splash around some river for a couple of hours. It's all good and it's all fly fishing. Why does it have to be more complicated than that?

 

[caseywise]

I know the use of beads rubs some of the more "purists" (for lack of better term) the wrong way. I don't mean to offend, but I look at things in a simple logical manner.

If I am using a FLY ROD to cast my FLY LINE and at the end of the leader I tie a nymph I am then FLY FISHING. Or am I just nymph fishing with a fly rod? But you say a nymph is a type of fly.

OK, If I tie on a Popper instead of the Nymph am I now just Popper fishing with a fly rod? or am I still fly fishing? is a popper still a fly? That's a little trickier to answer. The "fly" popper is the same as a popper that a spin fisherman uses on his spinning rod only its usually smaller. Does the size of the popper make it a fly if its too small to cast with a spinning rod? That can't be the case because then all sorts of "lures" that are too small to cast with a spinning rod then become flies. Or is it a fly because it has some hackles tied on the back of it? That can't be. There are all sorts of flies that are made only from foam and rubber bands that look like hoppers, beetles and any sort of bug. Besides that I have fished with poppers that had the hackles come off of them. At that point they would of become something other than a fly. What I don't know or care.

So its obvious that a fly can be made of any number of things besides feathers, hair or fur. Synthetic materials are used in making flies. Does it matter the shape of the synthetic material for it to be a fly? Foam is used in alot of different shapes on many flies. If I take a round "bead" and put it on a hook is it a fly? Getting a little trickier now. How much hair/fur/feathers do I need to add to that bead to make it a fly?

And don't tell me it has to be tied on a hook. That is not the case. Just like the bare hook when using a bead a tube fly uses a bare hook. Maybe tube flies are not really flies but "tubes". But I think all of you will be OK with tubes as real flies. Because the feathers and fur on the tube look more like a "traditional" fly. If that's so then a fly has to look a certain way for you to call it a fly.

So we see that the hook can be bare and still be fly fishing. Unless tubes are not flies.

The description or definition of a fly is very tricky as you can see.


If I have to have a "traditional" fly on the end of the line to be fly fishing is using a bobber on a spinning rod with a fly at the end of the whole thing then fly fishing? Of course not. It's still spin fishing. The Fly on the end of the line is irrelevant to the type of fishing. A fly is nothing more than a devise to attract a fish. Same as a lure or live bait.

So then the Fly at the end of the line does not make it fly fishing or the spin fisherman with the bobber is fly fishing.

So what makes it fly fishing fly fishing?

Simple, using a fly rod to cast fly line is fly fishing. Whether you have a nymph, streamer, tube or even a lowly bead at the end of your line when you use the line to cast your fly/lure your fly fishing. Only a purist would argue that you have to have a fly at the end in addition to the fly rod and fly line then make all sorts of contortions and start playing with semantics to define a fly.

I don't mean to offend but, if your offended maybe your a purist. Nothing wrong with that. I just don't care to pick nits over what a fly is. If you want to say I'm bead fishing with a fly rod that's fine by me. I don't really care what you think, its of no consequence to me. I just want to know are you going to then say anyone fishing with a popper is popper fishing with a fly rod? And what about tube fishing with a fly rod? Why do you feel the need to break it down more rather than just simply calling it all fly fishing? Is it simply because you really don't accept fishing with beads? That's fine too. Just be honest about it. We all don't see things the same way. Do I have to fish to your standards and sensibilities before I am fly fishing? Just curious.

None of this was meant to start a pissing war or get anyone's undies in a knot. I just put this out there to provoke some thought and hopefully some self introspection. To me, I like taking my fly rod out, tying on a bead, a yarn egg, a streamer or maybe even a popper, and splash around some river for a couple of hours. It's all good and it's all fly fishing. Why does it have to be more complicated than that?

nice rebuttal klunker,
i will say that fly fishing, using standard drys,nymphs and streamers is starting to give way to a whole new genre.
the intro of plastic tying materials(beads, legs, flash) is not only common, but most prevalent in our recent fly designs.
check out the new "michigan meat"
it uses all kinds of stuff

i could care less what you have on the end of your line, as long as your a happy fisherunk:
that being said, i have allot of respect for dry fly fisherman, as that to me is the real link to old school fly fishing. streamers being a very close second
like i said before, i respect all fly fishers, and too each his own

casey

 

[Ard]

Well, I've done it again haven't I.............

Hi Casey,

I would call your fly a streamer fly regardless of whether you have synthetics or eyes fixed into it. It has all the qualities of a modern streamer fly and is well constructed. My original observations were made in regard to the use of the plastic egg facsimile and somehow became muddled.

My disdain for the facsimile egg is not new, the link here will direct readers to a thread posted on 11/14/2008 and it was the first installment of the 'Fly Fisherman Who Kicked The Hornet's Nest' http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...n/6519-tradition-vs-plastic-hidden-irony.html

Actually I didn't see the need for a rebuttal to my comments although I may have expected some unrest in the camp after such bold statements. I do not engage in arguments about politics, race, religion, marriage, divorce, or darn near anything but I do have strong opinions about the 'art' of fly fishing. My views are the result of a life spent fishing and 43 years of using a fly rod and tying flies. Over those years I was inspired and influenced by reading the writings of fishermen; McNally, Wulff, R. Haig Brown, Jennings, Schwiebert, Marinaro, Fox, Bates, Brooks, LaFontaine and on and on.

The most famous era of contention I know of in our sport was that of the Skues vs. Halford debate. Those old fellows may both I believe, raise an eyebrow and perhaps their voices over the facsimile situation and the use of floats that are prevalent today. Now we face the new debate; each side will have its followers but only one will carry the weight and tradition provided by the history and luminaries who also spent their lives to further and preserve the art & craft of fly fishing.

We here on the forum strive to avoid subjects that are controversial and we do a good job of that, however we are a Fly Fishing Forum and I see no wrong in opinions being voiiced regarding the sport and the craft of it. In regard to reading something that you may not be in agreement with; where I grew up the old folks had a saying for when a person speaks their mind in generalities without speaking directly to a particular person. When someone would 'pipe up' and take great offense at what had been said the old timers would reply, "well I guess if the shoe fits, you should wear it". Whenever I give an opinion especially about the use of unconventional (historically speaking) gear or tactics, I speak in broad terms and to no one in particular. Almost always my observations are greeted with rebuttals and accusations of elitism from someone or a group of posters, because the shoe fits. Often someone may become defensive; presenting an argument to proffer their ways and means as justified. The truth is that I give an opinion of personal preference not aimed at anyone. If people feel they are being singled out by the remarks I regret that.

I reviewed my original post and I found that I referred to 'beads and nymph rigs'. I didn't stray into synthetics, poppers, hoppers, beetles and bugs. Of course, tube flies were far from my thoughts, I had a specific focus in the remarks and it seems that every time I say something about this I hit a nerve.

That's just me,

Ard

 

[wt bash]

Re: Well, I've done it again haven't I.............

I don't need to catch fish that bad to fish a bead from my fly rod.

 

[imxer]

As with so many other things, "it was just a matter of time."

 

[fredaevans]

Been interesting following this thread and where its gone. One might say I pulled the lid off of "Pandora's Box." Odd part is (I suspect) each and every State defines 'What is a fly' vs. 'What is a Lure' in the Game Regs. The three I follow (Oregon, Washington and BC) all have such descriptions (and in some cases what constitutes a "conventional" fly rod/line) ... and none are the same!

Close, but no C-Gar. And you toss in the 'special reg' provisions for some rivers (or parts there of like the fly only section of the North Umpqua) and it's really 'Game On.' A simple thing such as the gap of the hook shank to hook point my well be regulated, use of a weighted fly may/may not be allowed in some situations.

End game is READ your Regs; going to a new place. Read up on that specific bit of water. What you think you know may have little to do with what you need to know.

fae

 

[klunker]

So I've been fly fishing for only 2 years and I was invited this spring to do a couple day trip to fish the driftless area with a buddy of mine. Never been there and never did this type of fishing for small stream trout before. But The steelhead fishing was slow so what the hell, it might be a fun way to spend a couple of days.

The first day we spent nymphing with indicators and did pretty well. It was early in the season and there was no insect hatches going on. I was familiar with fishing this way as it's the way I was taught to fish for Steelhead. Had a great first day.

The second day we decide to use dry flies even tho there were no bugs in the air it might be fun to give it a shot. So I am at the head of a pool and my buddy is fishing the tail. I notice there is guy up river fishing the next run. Well I caught about 3-4 small browns with this little dry fly that another buddy ties.

This fly is made with deer hair and fiber tail. I know he is very particular about what he uses to tie it, The deer hair has to come from a certain place in the deer and he inspects the hair to be sure it bends just right and what not. And the fiber, its s certain plastic fiber that is lighter than water so it adds to the buoyancy of fly. Not any fiber of the right color will he use. It has to be this particular type of plastic. Anyways, you get the idea. I don't know if any of this really matters but I'll tell you that this buddy only ties and use 2 different flies. He always does really well fishing.

So anyways the guy from upstream come walking down and asks me "what are you using?"

"a small dry fly" I tell him.

He snaps back right away " I can see its a small dry fly, What pattern?"

"I don't know, my buddy ties these.."

And he cuts me off "you don't even know what pattern your using?" I can see he's getting irritated with me at this point. I'm a little dumbfounded. I can't understand what his problem is.

So again I try to explain what the fly is "It's tied with.."

Again he cuts me off " let me see it". What the heck I figure, it's a reasonable request and I don't want to see the guy get any more worked up so I swing the tip of my rod over to him so he can have a look.

He grabs the tippet and looks at the fly for a split second "just as I thought, a Elk Hair Caddis" and he tosses the fly back towards me.

"my buddy doesn't use Elk Hair, he...."

Again with the interruptions " it doesn't matter, it's a *******ization of an Elk Hair Caddis"

I've tried to explain to this guy several times what the fly is but he always interrupts so at this point I was done with him. I turned around and started fishing again. I hear him walk off and fish for a few more drifts. Then I check to be sure he's gone and I turn to my buddy at the tail of the pool.

"did you hear that?"

"yep."

"what was up with that guy?

"fly snob"

"fly snob?, whats a fly snob".

"guy who thinks his way is the only way, looks down at his nose at anybody who doesn't do the same, You'll see more of them when the hatches start, dry flies only, gotta match the hatch, anything else and you might as well be fishing with a worm and bobber as far as he's concerned, gives fly fisherman a bad reputation."

I get it, I've seen this type before in other hobbies. Always has to get his snide little comments in how this is wrong or this isn't correct or he would never do that. Always negative. Nobody ever is as enlightened or as righteous as him. Purist, elitist or just plain snob.

Anyways we fished the rest of the day. Had a great time , the sun was shinning, saw some Bluebirds working on a nest in a hollow willow stump, listen to the turkeys gobbling. Couldn't be much better.

Next day went back to nymphing. Had an equally as great a day. It's all good.