Help! I'm clearly overthinking wading boot studs

[City Rat]

Ok I am close to pulling the trigger on wading boots, I need to try on both the Orvis Pros and the Simms G3 Guide boots , make a decision and close the chapter on this. As I was going over their features of each boot for the zillionth time I noticed that each company charges separate for the studs. There seem to be a couple of types:
1- Variations on a hex head screw, e.g. Simms Hardbite Wading Boot Studs
HardBite Wading Boot Studs - For Vibram Soles (20-count) | SIMMS Fishing Products

Kold Kutter studs
Tip: Stop Grossly Overpaying for Wading Boot Studs | Hatch Magazine - Fly Fishing, etc.


2-Cleats, e.g. Simms Hardbite Wading boot cleats
HardBite Star Wading Boot Cleat (10-count) | SIMMS Fishing Products

Simms Alumbite Cleats
Outdoor Gear & Clothing | Outdoor Online Shop | Alpinetrek.co.uk


3- Non Hex head screw Studs, e.g Orvis Posigrip screw in studs
https://www.orvis.com/p/posigrip-screw-in-studs/9t1g


Grip studs
Wader Boot Studs | Hiking Boot Studs | Grip Studs® Screw-In Tire Studs | Traction in Ice, Snow and Dirt | Wader Studs




Regardles of which of these two boots I go with, can I put any stud on the bottom of the vibram/rubber sole? Is one type better for certain conditions over another type? Does one type last longer than the others? I feel like this is really easy and that I'm just overthinking but then again I'm so new at this it is hard to tell if I'm overthinking a thing or if there is a choice here that makes a difference. Any assist would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[jangles]

I have the grip studs , wont use anything else . Those cleats with the screw in the center don't stay on for **** .

 

[deanb10s]

Koldkutters. Motorcycle tire ice racing studs. Cheap... and easy to replace when one falls out. Around $20 for 250 of them.


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[brownbass]

Rocktreads. Shop Rock Treads Aluminum Traction Discs for Shoes or Boots

 

[gpwhitejr]

I have a cheap pair of boots from Dick's, with the rubber sole (not felt). I tried the Kold-Kutters and that helped somewhat. But then I found at Patagonia a sale on the aluminum bars, so I bought two sets of those (so I have a bunch of spares). I attached them using the included threaded inserts just screwed into the rubber. As far as traction, it worked great, probably as good as my felt boots. However, on one boot the two inserts (the way the boots are I could only use two screws for each plate) for one of the plates pulled out and I lost that plate; on the other boot, one of the inserts of the analogous plate pulled out. So I bought some T-nuts and I am going to screw them on with the T-nuts inside the boot, under the insole (and some Loctite for good measure).

Here is the kit:

Patagonia Aluminum Bar Replacement Kit for Wading Boots

 

[City Rat]

So it sounds like as long as you have space in the lug pattern of your boot, these are all interchangeable, correct?

 

[johan851]

I'll second (or third?) the aluminum bars or discs. I've found my Korkers Alumatrax bars to grip much better than their cleat soles. Before these I spent a lot of time skating around on rocks with rubber, felt, and spikes, and now my footing is much more solid.

 

[flytie09]

I still am in search of the perfect option. Researching them all will make your head spin. Tough to find unbiased info......

I've tried and use a wide variety. I personally am not a fan of the screw in style studs. They invariably fall out. I used them for a couple of years on several earlier pairs of removable sole Korker boots and gave up. The threads would strip or you'd have to use Loctite on them......just a PITA. I tried sheet metal screws and all of these fell out in 1 trip.

I've not used the Kold Cutter, Orvis or Simms studs options as a result of the above experience. I'd also think that ones with an exposed center retaining screw, if they wear out......how do do you get the old screw out? Drill them out? Right or wrong I'm just not a fan.........

I use the buckle on style cleats from Korker - Rocktrax. The carbide studs are riveted on, haven't worn hardly at all and haven't lost one in 5 years. These are heavy....but are reliable, adaptable to new boots as they wear out and the way to go for me. You can simply take them off and just use a boot with a sticky rubber sole if you're in a drift boat or walking into a store to get a soda.



I do have a pair of the Patagonia and Korker boots with the AlumnaBar soles....I like the concept....but aluminum is very soft and I see replacing them frequently. I've not used either boots much...but the bars have worn down a fair amount already. The Patagonia ones are a bear to walk in. Stiff is an understatement.

Good luck on your search. Let us know what you decide on.

 

[City Rat]

I still am in search of the perfect option. Researching them all will make your head spin. Tough to find unbiased info......

I've tried and use a wide variety. I personally am not a fan of the screw in style studs. They invariably fall out. I used them for a couple of years on several earlier pairs of removable sole Korker boots and gave up. The threads would strip or you'd have to use Loctite on them......just a PITA. I tried sheet metal screws and all of these fell out in 1 trip.

I've not used the Kold Cutter, Orvis or Simms studs options as a result of the above experience. I'd also think that ones with an exposed center retaining screw, if they wear out......how do do you get the old screw out? Drill them out? Right or wrong I'm just not a fan.........

I use the buckle on style cleats from Korker - Rocktrax. The carbide studs are riveted on, haven't worn hardly at all and haven't lost one in 5 years. These are heavy....but are reliable, adaptable to new boots as they wear out and the way to go for me. You can simply take them off and just use a boot with a sticky rubber sole if you're in a drift boat or walking into a store to get a soda.

View attachment 16684

I do have a pair of the Patagonia and Korker boots with the AlumnaBar soles....I like the concept....but aluminum is very soft and I see replacing them frequently. I've not used either boots much...but the bars have worn down a fair amount already. The Patagonia ones are a bear to walk in. Stiff is an understatement.

Good luck on your search. Let us know what you decide on.

You are so right, it is very difficult to get an unbiased answer. Prior to posting here, for all of the above products in my original post, I read all of the reviews on each product page, ran the Google machine and read reviews on each product posted elsewhere, e.g. Amazon, fly shop websites, etc. I then watched a bunch of Youtube vids on installing each one and the comments to those vids. Then I searched this forum. The threads here that I found were more toward "if I really need them" "are studs worth the money", etc. My overall takeaway at the time when I posted this thread was, all wading boots need help in gaining the purchase on slippery rocks and uneven slick surfaces that you need to work your way upstream stalking fish. So yes, you need them unless you like face planting in streams and yes they are worth spending money on as some stud/cleat help is better than none. So now the question is with a wide selection of studs, some proprietary, e.g. Orvis and Simms, some third party, 1-are they interchangeable (I think yes) and 2- do some give better traction than others or last longer than others. I am thankful for the responses in this thread which are really getting to peoples experience with the traction provided by and durability of some of the different products. I look forward to hearing from others. At this point I am beginning to think that I should start out using a combination of the Orvis grip studs and the Kold Kutters, if I go with the Orvis Pro wading boot or the Simms Hardbite cleat and Koldkutter studs if I go with the Simms G3 boot. In either case it seems like a lot of folks are using either Aquaseal, red or blue Loctite or epoxy on the threads no matter which option you use. Anyway that is where all of this is guiding me at this point. As always the newbie welcomes your thoughts.

 

[Ard]

If you buy the Simms boot I can tell you what I use in mine. I have tried many studs, even taken them from manufacturers and tested them with different brands on each boot to see which gripped better or came loose first.

When I say tried many I mean cheap hardware screws - cold cutter - Grip Stud brand - Simms Hard bight start cleats - Simms Hard Bite screws and Simms Alumbite star cleats. Those are what I can quickly remember, currently I have the Simms Alumbite cleats on a pair of G3 boots going into their 3rd season.

I have not lost a one of them and all are still tight. It comes down to getting them applied to the boot carefully and correctly without over tightening which strips out the boot sole. When they are correctly and carefully installed (can't stress that enough) they work as well as one can hope for. They do not protrude to the extent in which they tear surfaces up or become loose due to constant contact with the ground. On most surfaces I wade through they improve my contact with everything underfoot and I don't slip slide around.

For me they have been the longest lasting least damaging studs I have used. I did find that with some brands that protruded way beyond the rubber soles of my boots that they could create a slip and fall on dry slab rock near shore. I believe that occurred because the rubber was not in contact with the inclined smooth surface of the stone at all, I was supported by that series of little metal points.........

In the end, wading among wet slippery stone and bedrock submerged in water that is often moving at fair rates of velocity is an inherently tricky operation in which many people end up taking a fall. Whether or not the dunking can be blamed specifically on the type or brand of studs they use is an open question. I use those Alumbite cleats and when the going gets rough I assemble my Simms Fan Boy Carbon Fiber Wading Staff for added stability. I do not wait until I am thigh deep in raging currents to deploy a wading staff, you learn to assess risks before you ever enter the flow and go prepared. The combination of cleats for some added grip and staff for balance are a winning combo for me

As a final remark I'll say that every close call I've had while wading here and other places over the past decades has been caused by the velocity of current and not by my choice of studs. Once the current is at a level which is actually pushing your feet downstream or eroding the bottom substrate away from your feet where you stand you have passed the point of relying on studs for help. At that point a successful crossing comes down to shear will and you'll look for a better place to cross coming back I hope.

 

[trout stalker]

I use the Simms Hardbite Stare Wading Cleat for at least 8 years now and have never had an issue.

 

[dennyk]

Whichever boot you decide on you may want to go up 2 shoe sizes for a non-binding fit and to allow room for extra socks. When I wet wade I use a neoprene wet wading sock with a heavy wool sock over the top of it to fill out the boot. Foot comfort goes a long way to the enjoyment of day a on the water.

Denny

 

[City Rat]

Whichever boot you decide on you may want to go up 2 shoe sizes for a non-binding fit and to allow room for extra socks. When I wet wade I use a neoprene wet wading sock with a heavy wool sock over the top of it to fill out the boot. Foot comfort goes a long way to the enjoyment of day on the water.

Denny

Funny, I just picked up the Simms G3 waders over lunch and tried on the G3 boots while I was in the shop. As I was walking around the store I was thinking that I needed to test drive boots with a thicker sock on and the neoprene booties.

 

[reels]

7$ for a box of 100



I just replace them every 4 - 6 months. They work great for me.

I've been thinking to put 20 of them in a patagonia wading stud box and sell them for $20

 

[City Rat]

Thanks to all. I just tried both the Orvis Pro and the G3 Guide boot on and went with the G3. The Orvis boot is a nice boot, very nice and I think that it will be easier to break in. That said the reason it will be easier to break in is because it's lighter than the G3. The thing that kept bugging me was what did they take out to make it lighter but keep an almost identical feature set? I decided, based on their track record on durability on the G3s. I also grabbed up a couple of "pucks" of the Hardbite Star cleats. I will break the boots in over the next couple of days and install the cleats Friday night before I go fishing this weekend. Thanks again to everyone. The info really helped with the decision.

 

[willyf]

I guess it's too late, but to me the Patagonia Foot Tractors are the way to go. Instead of having studs grab the rock, the rock grabs the aluminum plates on the bottom of the boot. I only wear mine (I have the old version) when I'll be fishing in slippery situations because the boots are heavy and not the most comfortable--I have G3s for fishing easier to wade streams. The Foot Tractors have such a good grip. I feel confident in almost any wading situation. The only time I've had problems is on wet wood, which studs would probably be better on.

 

[philip43]

I have used aluminum screws on my wading boot soles. Seems to me that as they flatten out they grip slimy rocks better than steel screws.

 

[City Rat]

I guess it's too late, but to me the Patagonia Foot Tractors are the way to go. Instead of having studs grab the rock, the rock grabs the aluminum plates on the bottom of the boot. I only wear mine (I have the old version) when I'll be fishing in slippery situations because the boots are heavy and not the most comfortable--I have G3s for fishing easier to wade streams. The Foot Tractors have such a good grip. I feel confident in almost any wading situation. The only time I've had problems is on wet wood, which studs would probably be better on.

Never too late for good information. Thanks.

 

[MCHammer]

I guess it's too late, but to me the Patagonia Foot Tractors are the way to go. Instead of having studs grab the rock, the rock grabs the aluminum plates on the bottom of the boot. I only wear mine (I have the old version) when I'll be fishing in slippery situations because the boots are heavy and not the most comfortable--I have G3s for fishing easier to wade streams. The Foot Tractors have such a good grip. I feel confident in almost any wading situation. The only time I've had problems is on wet wood, which studs would probably be better on.

What he said...

 

[City Rat]

So here is the pattern I went with . It's a combination of 10 Simms hardbite cleats and 10 3/8 Kold kutter studs. Time will tell if it works, along wirh a wading staff, or if I end up ass over tea kettle sailing down a mountain stream, lol. So far so good.