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Thread: California snow

  1. #1

    Default California snow

    The picture on the left is from 2/5/2019. The picture on the right is from 2/5/2018.

    Calif 2018-2019.jpg

    Images taken from space in 2018 and 2019 show two very different Californias - SFGate
    There's not a day that goes by that I don't wonder how dreary this world would be if elk were bald and birds had no feathers.
    - Hank Patterson

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: California snow

    Oh, I do hope that hits Colorado. The more snow here the better.
    The only thing human kind ever learned through history, is that through history, human kind has learned nothing.

  4. #3
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    Default Re: California snow

    Must be a glitch in the global warming thing!

    Denny

  5. #4
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    Default Re: California snow

    Just to share......I push snow for a living at Alpine resort. There's not that much snow here so don't get all excited.
    Climate change causes more moisture aloft.....mostly warm from Hawaii, so much of the "snow" was rain that ran off.
    Rivers of water on the streets and very slidy conditions. Moisture not to be used later, and later is all that counts.
    I know that's counter intuitive but there you go.
    The most I've heard is 114% OVER last years total (Which was paltry). I judge by how much we have in the lot, or around town....when the street signs disappear, I'll let you know.They never subtract from the snow totals, after it rains, just pump it up more. So they sound pretty silly to locals because we can SEE what we have. The weather man called for 10ft drifts..........we got two feet.....
    Went fishing yesterday...easy approach to the water, that won't happen if we get going with winter.

    Pacific Northeast, Water Vapor Loop: GOES West

    Jim
    Last edited by Bigfly; 02-09-2019 at 02:35 PM.
    The bar isn't set by the fish we catch, but by the one's we don't.

    Bigfly

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  7. #5

    Default Re: California snow

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfly View Post
    Just to share......I push snow for a living at Alpine resort. There's not that much snow here so don't get all excited.
    That's odd, this morning Alpine's own website banner says that they got 7.5 feet of snow in the last 7 days. Are we referring to the same area?

    Here's the snowpack report from CEDC, saying central Sierra is 126% of average for this date (2/9). However, there is prognosis of a Pineapple Express next week that could melt away much of the snowpack.
    There's not a day that goes by that I don't wonder how dreary this world would be if elk were bald and birds had no feathers.
    - Hank Patterson

  8. #6
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    Default Re: California snow

    Never believe a resort snow total.......
    Would I LIE to a forum member? NO!
    When you live by snow marketing, the truth can get stretched a bit. A foot a day would be 7 feet and I wouldn't be able to go fish right?
    It is the same resort. Alpine/squaw.
    Do you remember how wonder bread builds bodies 12 ways?
    This is no different. People who believe what the read/hear are at risk of disappointment in life.
    It is only starting to look like winter to locals. What is a local? Someone who lives in snow for 30-40 years.
    Not a meteorologist far away or the news people who try so hard to tell you what's true........
    If this sounds strident a little, it's because we get tired of hearing how bad ass the storm is going to be, and it amounts to diddly. Like last night!!!!!! That and seeing all the people coming to ski this morning with mostly wind hold on the chairs.......why didn't the resort mention that the lifts mostly won't run in the wind.....! Because they want the money.
    At $160+ a person.
    Did my 9hr shift last, had my nap, and now I'm going fishing. In this "bad-ass storm".

    Ill just post this again......this is all I need to predict our weather...you can see the warm influence. From HI.
    Here's today's...
    Pacific Northeast, Water Vapor Loop: GOES West
    Now if that crescent of high pressure was to fade away....we might get some snow.

    See you on the water.

    Jim
    Last edited by Bigfly; 02-09-2019 at 03:02 PM.
    The bar isn't set by the fish we catch, but by the one's we don't.

    Bigfly

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  10. #7
    Join Date
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    Default Re: California snow

    There is a vast difference in the Sierras when you access snow pack. It varies significantly by elevation and location.
    I downloaded the latest data from the NOHRSC website which has over 100 sensors throughout the sierras.
    Looking at those numbers I can understand Bigfly's frustration with the numbers reported by the media because Tahoe area really does not have a lot of snowpack but other areas and elevations do. In some instances the sensors are within the same zip code but vary in readings by as much as 50" depending on thier elevation.

    Taking averages by elevation:
    Under 6000' down to 3000' average snowpack is around 24" with a high of 75" and a low of 4.5" Truckee is listed at 5888'
    Under 7000' down to 6000' average snowpack is around 74" with a high of 193" and a low of 20"
    Under 8000' down to 7000' average snowpack is around 90" with a high of 180" and a low of 38"
    Under 9000' down to 8000' average snowpack is around 103" with a high of 200" and a low of 45"
    Above 9000' average snowpack is around 105" with a high of 179" (Bishop Pass) and a low of 8.9" (Ellery Lake)

    If I calculate on Median rather than just average snowpack then the numbers change:
    Under 6000' is 18.5"
    Under 7000' is 60"
    Under 8000' is 82"
    Under 9000' is 100"
    Above 9000' is 92"

    If I sort by Latitude (no consideration for elevation)
    36n is averaging 85" (South of Mammoth)
    37n is averaging 102" (Yosemite down to Mammoth)
    38n is averaging 81" (Central Sierras below Tahoe above Yosemite)
    39n is averaging 65" (Tahoe / Truckee falls in this range)
    40n is averaging 30" (North of Tahoe)

    Using all sensors the Average is 80" and the Median is 76".

    I guess I could do some more analysis but I think we can all understand that snow depth totals vary significantly depending on where you are located and at what elevation. Overall though it looks like CA snowpack is in pretty good shape barring any significant warming trend.

    To bring in a visual here is a picture of Donner Summit above Truckee
    current-3.jpg

    Here is a picture 16 miles away on the Truckee river in Floriston
    current.jpg


    Regards,

    Tim C.
    Last edited by tcorfey; 02-10-2019 at 03:26 AM. Reason: Originally reported Tioga Pass at 233" was 133"

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  12. #8
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    Default Re: California snow

    Actually the reason I don't buy it, is because I've lived here a long time.
    And as I said, they don't subtract the snow that melted from rain, from the total snow measurements.
    Get 6" lose two........if we didn't have settling and some rain, we would be deep.
    We could also get a bunch of rain before Spring and not have a pack....been there too. 1996-97.
    Snowed 3ft and then rained for two days straight from HI.
    The next step is LIDAR, and compare the overflight with ground sensors......
    Then all the people who don't live in snow can really spew about how much WE have.

    Jim
    The bar isn't set by the fish we catch, but by the one's we don't.

    Bigfly

  13. #9
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    Default Re: California snow

    If the sensors measure how much snow is on the ground, it seems they do take into account melting snow due to rain.

    If the sensor starts at 10 inches, if two inches melt due to rain, then the sensor presumably then says eight inches.

    Or isn't it that simple?

    Or is this just another instance of being able to say pretty much anything you want using statistics, and or anecdotal oberservation, for that matter.?
    -Rick Allen

  14. #10

    Default Re: California snow

    https://cdec.water.ca.gov/snow/misc/rainOnSnow.html


    https://cdec.water.ca.gov/snow/pix/snowmelt.gif

    "According to the Corps of Engineers' Snow Hydrology manual, where Mr is the melt, in inches of water, Tr is the mean rain temperature (F), and Pr is the inches of rainfall. Therefore, it would take about 10 inches of rain at 48F to melt one inch of snow water content.
    Much of work to develop and verify this equation was done at the Central Sierra Snow Laboratory located at Soda Springs near Donner Summit. Considerable work remains to refine the physical mechanisms of how the rain water migrates through the pack.

    Only after prolonged, warm rainfall will snowmelt be a major contributor to runoff. This did occur in February, 1986 and during the first week of 1997."
    There's not a day that goes by that I don't wonder how dreary this world would be if elk were bald and birds had no feathers.
    - Hank Patterson

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