Palmering hackle?

[bruce m]

When I'm palmering hackle on a wet fly floss body it wants to roll or splay, what am I doing wrong. I believe my body to be flat and even, what else could cause it to splay.

 

[turbineblade]

Usually the first few fibers will get trapped and splay in every direction on the side you start palmering.

What I do is strip some or all of the fibers on the far side getting wrapped down on the hook shank so none of the fibers get too funky. Sometimes I like to palmer the full feather though and you definitely do get a few fibers all over the place.

That said, David Hughes in "Wet Flies" (great book) argues that having a few wet fly hackles splaying in strange directions probably makes no difference to the fish....so you can just leave them if you want. I tend to agree after fishing wet flies quite a bit the last few months.

Or, you can just pull 'em back and wrap the thread over slightly to force them backwards. Like this: https://www.google.com/search?um=1&...2011%2F02%2Ftie-talk-soft-hackle-bugs;618;307

It depends on whether you're a "tip tie" or "stem tie" kind of guy. Hughes advocates the "stem tie" method, and I prefer it this way honestly....even though I learned to do it tip-first. I like winding thread through the entire hackle for stability.

Here's the method I like (and Hughes advocates) -- scroll down and you'll see a picture of it. http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=33242&page=2

 

[Kerry Pitt]

What kind of quality are your feathers? Feathers that do not have a totally round stem will tend to roll as well. If you are using good quality stuff then I would go with turbineblade's suggestions.

 

[bruce m]

Thank you both for the responses. I tie in by the tips and have found what I was doing wrong. I turns out there were fibers getting caught up under the stem. I found Dons DVD to refresh my memory on how to do this, and I was not doing an important step of folding the fibers back as I wrap the hackle around the hook. Something simple like that and I cant remember, EOCRS strikes again. {early onset of cant remember shirt}

 

[wt bash]

Stripping one side will help too if you don't want a bushy hackled body.

 

[jaybo41]

I tie mine in by the tip and just like Bash said, I'll usually remove one side of the hackle. Whether you use one side of hackle or two, I run a scissor blade across the stem to "fold" the hackle fibers back.

 

[Ard]

Hi Bruce,

Bill and Jay are both advocating the same method that I use but................. If you want a really full hackle you may want to take a look at the 'Salmon Fly Tie Along' thread in the Fly Tying Forums here. The very first pattern demoed there by 'Pocono' (Allan) is the 'Grub'. I am showing the picture of the one I tied as a participant in the tutorial below. The method for creating the very full and rearward slanting hackles is called 'folding' and it works quite well for the palmering of wets. The thread I will link here; http://www.theflyfishingforum.com/f...g-discussions/42823-salmon-fly-tie-along.html . Within this thread which Allen put forth a Herculean effort in all of his demonstrations of tying technique and many can be adapted to other than salmon fly tying.

One note if you go with stripping half the fibers from the feathers............ be careful when you start peeling hackles so that you choose the correct side You'll want to allow for the remaining fibers to be those that will have the convex or back side of the fibers facing the hook bend to provide for the rearward tilting fibers.

Hope that adds to the already flourishing amount of advice you've already got here.

Ard

Folded Hackles;

 

[mcnerney]

Ard: You sneaking into town without even letting anyone know, what's up with that, you need to properly introduce yourself!

Good to see you posting, at least that means your alive and kicking.

Edit: Disregard, I didn't see you other post updating everyone that you were back home!

Larry

 

[busbus]

I always seem to make a mess of hackle, too. One of the things that seem to happen to me is that it is too big. Not that it is too long (but that happens, too) but there simply too much hackle.

I am still an infant at this and this is the first time I ever heard of stripping off on side of the hackle. I really think this will fix one of my biggest problems.

I have also heard of folding the hackle, but I don't have much success in that area for some reason. I think both things sort of accomplish the same thing, in a way, I guess it depends o the situation.

I always have trouble nestling in the wire as I go over the heckle, too. I am thinking the main reason is because I simply have too much hackle there a lot of times.

Thanks for starting this post, Bruce!

 

[flytire]

folding hackle
Folding Hackle is really simple if you use the Joe Ayres foam block method. Start by getting a block of foam (the kind you find wrapped around computer equipment to protect it in shipping) about 3"x3"x10" long. Cut 1/2" deep slots in the foam -- you should be able to get about a dozen slots in a 10" piece of foam. To fold the hackle all you have to do is insert the feather's stem in the slot and the hackle is folded.

http://http://swittersb.wordpress.com/2010/01/01/fly-tying-folding-hackle-barbs-to-double-the-barbs/


wire through hackle
wrap the wire through the hackle using speed wraps. the quick wrapping of the wire pushes the hackle fibers out of the way vs trapping the hackle fibers under the wire wraps.

 

[Ard]

Folding Hackle is really simple if you use the Joe Ayres foam block method. Start by getting a block of foam (the kind you find wrapped around computer equipment to protect it in shipping) about 3"x3"x10" long. Cut 1/2" deep slots in the foam -- you should be able to get about a dozen slots in a 10" piece of foam. To fold the hackle all you have to do is insert the feather's stem in the slot and the hackle is folded.

Now that is a most excellent tip!

 

[busbus]

This is really cool!!

How do you "stuff" the feather in the slot? Insert the stem into the slot. I am assuming you push it into the slot so the barbs fold up each side of the stem along the sides of the slot, right?

As far as the wrapping the wire, that is a great idea. Others have told me to slowly wrap opposite the hackle and wiggle the wire as you wrap but not to go too fast. Maybe I should wrap fast and wiggle at the same time.

 

[flytire]

How do you "stuff" the feather in the slot?

hold the tip end in one hand and the butt end in the other and insert the feather into the slit in the foam and the hackle fibers will become folded

that puts a preliminary fold in the hackle. after tying in your hackle you still need to stroke the folded fibers towards the bend while wrapping the hackle forward.

if you watch hans weilenmann tie hackled flies and also soft hackles, he mostly ties on his hackle first and when he wraps the hackle, he wraps toward the bend of the hook. he will then tie down the tip of the feather and quickly wrap the tying thread through the hackle to the head area. 3 whip finishes and it done.

 

[busbus]

How stupid. I see now: the slit is cut all the way thru the Styrofoam and the slit is as wide as the barbs of the feat. I was visioning it as a slit that is 1/2" deep the length of the feather.

As usual, as I become obsessed with something, I did some hunting and found this site. It seems to work well but not nearly as fast as this Styrofoam method:

Jimmy Younger Method

 

[bruce m]

Thanks Ard for the link to the tie along , I will check it out, Your's looks like what I am trying to achieve, practice, practice and more practice.

Flytire, I have heard of that method before not sure of where, maybe here, I will definitely give that a shot also and see what works best for me.

Thanks all for the help and insight.