Hi! My name is Brandon, and I live in Colorado. I am a novice fly angler fishing this way for barley a year. Recently, I have been researching on how to setup a basic dry fly rig to no prevail. I have been in contact (believe it or not) with my local fly shops to receive horrible service and no real information. Personally, I think they're just racist ass holes. My problem is I can't seem to get my dry to float. Is there a specific leader or setup that I need? I have floatant, but my fly still sinks to where i can't follow its progression down the drift. I am not using fluorocarbon when attempting to dry fly. Please Help! I can nymph fairly well, but I want to advance my skills in this beautiful art . I fly fish on local rivers and streams. Also, I understand how to match the hatch and read water. Thanks for any information that may be provided! Tight lines my fly fishing brethren. :fishing:
Basic Dry Fly Setup
- Thread starter bleonskis
- Start date
jpbfly
Super Moderator
:welcome:Brandon...think the tippet has nothing to do with your problem...which dry pattern do you use?do you fish fast waters?Looks like your dries are not made with good quality hackles...I understand you must be angry with the guys at the flyshop ....but watch out your language here please
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Sorry sir I thought the internet was uncensored. I apologize. I use all patterns pretty much. Mayfly, beatis, caddis, midge, Griffith gnat parachute Adams all that jazz. I buy them from the fly shop I hope they're high quality haha
---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------
I try not fish to fast of water. I try to find a steady run that isn't too fast or too slow
---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------
I try not fish to fast of water. I try to find a steady run that isn't too fast or too slow
alexs
Well-known member
Give us a concrete example: size of tippet, pattern and size of fly, type of water fished (flat, riffle, pocket water). What floatant do you use?
Alex
Alex
alexs
Well-known member
Before going any further, if you are fishing small size flies in water with a decent current, drag can pull the fly under the surface in no time. The fly has to fall on the water surface with a slack tippet and you have to avoid drag. The moment drag sets in, pick up your fly and make another cast.
Alex
Alex
Sorry to hear about the bad service , I've found some shops, or perhaps just some of the employees at the shops, aren't the best. In fact there are some I avoid because of rudeness so I vote with my dollars not venting my anger. That said, there are great shops that should be helpful. What part of CO are you in? Perhaps some on here can help point you towards a good one.
x2 for what JP said regarding quality of flies. I've found some cheap hackled dry flies don't float well because of the materials. Also, as he asked, what flies are you using and what water are you fishing?
Other possible causes:
- drag - if your fly is dragging in the current (creating a wake or being pulled under) this will cause it to absorb water and sink fairly quickly
- if your cast causes the dry to slap down on the water this can cause the fly to break the surface tension and sink. This is helpful if you need to get a nymph down deep but not if you're presenting a size 18 blue wing olive dry
For a set-up a simple 9' tapered mono leader should be just fine and, baring the above, your dry should float decently. Over time most non-foam dries can start sinking through normal use. You can use your gel floatant and also desiccant powder, but remember they are used differently. The gel floatant needs to be applied before the fly is wet, it helps prevent the fly from absorbing water. Once the fly is wet the gel doesn't help. That's when the desiccant powder comes in. You put the wet fly in the tube with the powder and shake, or put some powder in your hand and rub the fly in it and it helps dry the fly. Eventually, the powder might stop helping, when this happens it's good to put on a fresh one and let the soaked one dry-out.
If you can, get a guide for a day or a half day. If you're in the Denver area, I see groupons fairly regularly for guides/fly fishing schools and the prices are pretty good. Focus your time with your guide on learning and you should get a lot for your money.
x2 for what JP said regarding quality of flies. I've found some cheap hackled dry flies don't float well because of the materials. Also, as he asked, what flies are you using and what water are you fishing?
Other possible causes:
- drag - if your fly is dragging in the current (creating a wake or being pulled under) this will cause it to absorb water and sink fairly quickly
- if your cast causes the dry to slap down on the water this can cause the fly to break the surface tension and sink. This is helpful if you need to get a nymph down deep but not if you're presenting a size 18 blue wing olive dry
For a set-up a simple 9' tapered mono leader should be just fine and, baring the above, your dry should float decently. Over time most non-foam dries can start sinking through normal use. You can use your gel floatant and also desiccant powder, but remember they are used differently. The gel floatant needs to be applied before the fly is wet, it helps prevent the fly from absorbing water. Once the fly is wet the gel doesn't help. That's when the desiccant powder comes in. You put the wet fly in the tube with the powder and shake, or put some powder in your hand and rub the fly in it and it helps dry the fly. Eventually, the powder might stop helping, when this happens it's good to put on a fresh one and let the soaked one dry-out.
If you can, get a guide for a day or a half day. If you're in the Denver area, I see groupons fairly regularly for guides/fly fishing schools and the prices are pretty good. Focus your time with your guide on learning and you should get a lot for your money.
Thanks William and sorry for my language. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I live in Pueblo, and unfortunately I don't have the time or the money for a guide service. So a nine foot mono leader is all I need? I usually try to fish like a size 20 dry. That's too small then? What size should I fish?
So a nine foot mono leader is all I need? I usually try to fish like a size 20 dry. That's too small then? What size should I fish?Size depends on what the fish are taking on the water you're fishing. This summer you'll have fun fishing size 6 and 8 foam hoppers that float forever and can get some big strikes when grass hoppers are being blown into the water In CO though, size 20 and smaller isn't unusual, especially when fishing the tailwaters. What size tapered leader do you use? For that size fly I'd use probably 6x or 7x. Do you know the name of the flies you're using or can you find a picture of them online? Something like a griffith's gnat usually floats pretty well since it's covered in hackle.
Have you found fishing reports online? I've not been to any of the shops down your way but know some of them have online reports. Even if they aren't helpful in person they can't stop you from using the info they put online
Watch the Orvis shop at Parkmeadows Mall in South Denver for their free Fly Fishing 101 class. Not the same as a guide but it's free and helpful.
In CO though, size 20 and smaller isn't unusual, especially when fishing the tailwaters. What size tapered leader do you use? For that size fly I'd use probably 6x or 7x. Do you know the name of the flies you're using or can you find a picture of them online? Something like a griffith's gnat usually floats pretty well since it's covered in hackle. Have you found fishing reports online? I've not been to any of the shops down your way but know some of them have online reports. Even if they aren't helpful in person they can't stop you from using the info they put online
Watch the Orvis shop at Parkmeadows Mall in South Denver for their free Fly Fishing 101 class. Not the same as a guide but it's free and helpful.
nickj
Well-known member
Shimazaki Dry Shake is the absolute best stuff in the universe. It'll dry out your sopping wet dries and float them like they're brand new. You do need to be fishing dries basically upstream. As far as a local, really good shop- Angler's Covey in Colorado Springs. I know, they're about 40 miles away.. they're about 70 miles for me but they're my first choice. Sorry, I don't know of any in Pueblo.
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Awesome thanks man! I usually fish a 5x leader. I try to match the hatch here on the Arkansas. I use BWO pale morning dun parachute adams elk hair caddis. Like i said i can nymph fairly well. I just need to learn how to dry fly properly. i will make a stop at that orvis shop next weekend. I work a lot.
troutnut4
Well-known member
William j, thanks for the tip on gel and powder floatant. That is something I didn't know. Been using both of these products off and on and not in the proper manner. I have always coated my new flies prior to use and repeated the process when they were soaked. Last summer I picked up a powder but the shop didn't tell me the difference. Most time I find some of the clerks just assume that you know what you are buying in gear if you don't ask questions. My fault for that. Others just love what they are doing and are a great source of information. That is what I like about this site. Informative.
rangerrich99
Well-known member
Basic dry set up:
9 ft. mono tapered leader in 3x/4x/5x, approx. 2 ft. of mono tippet appropriately sized (i.e., 4x leader/5x tippet/fly). Fly. Optional second fly. I gernally use Aquel on my flies, mucillin on my leader (I used to grease my leaders from the loop to the tippet knot, but I don't do that anymore. I've found that I only need to grease from the loop to about a fooot short of the tippet knot). I try to dry my flies with dessicant at least every 8-10 casts, and after every fish hooked.
I had the same problems you seem to be having when I first started about 5 years ago, and your question brought back some half-forgotten memories of the difficulties I had when I first started throwing dries. Now, I'm no expert, but here are some of the things I've learned over the years that might be of some help to you.
Leader/tippet selection is dependent on situation. For example, when I fish small, light patterns I tend towards 4x or 5x leaders. When fishing heavier patterns like hoppers or beetles or cicadas, I use 3x or even 2x (note: you can, of course, cast a #8 hopper with 4x leader, but the fly catches so much air and the leader loses so much speed that they alight on the water much like para- flies, meaning very lightly). Here's the reason: smaller, lighter dries are supposed to drop gently to the water surface, whereas terrestrials like hoppers need to splashdown. 4x/5x leaders allow for softer presentations, while heavier leaders tend to promote heavier landings.
Also, fly size can be dictated by speed of current, water clarity, wind, etc. Generally speaking, the lower the light, the faster the current, murkier the water, and/or windier the conditions, the bigger fly you can use. The reason being, all of these conditions reduce the fish's ability to see either you, your rod, your line, your leader, and sometimes even your fly if it's small enough. You might make multiple perfect presentations, but if all these conditions are working against you, then the fish might just not see your offering. Upsizing might get your fly noticed, and eaten.
If your fly is sinking early (assuming you are mending correctly and on time), then upsize until the fly stays up until the end of the drift.
Another way to keep smaller flies above water is to tie on an 'attractor' fly such as a stimulator or a humpy (#12 or #14), tie on another 2 ft. piece of tippet (either same diameter or down one size) and then your #20 fly. The larger more bouyant attractor fly acts as a 'bridge', preventing your smaller fly from being dragged under so easily. The cons are line twist (I usually try to untwist my line between flies after every 5 casts or so), and increased difficulty performing a good mend. Accuracy can also be a problem depending on how much wind there is on the day in question.
Anyway, don't want to bore you to tears, so I'll finish up there. Hope that helps, and good luck.
Peace.
9 ft. mono tapered leader in 3x/4x/5x, approx. 2 ft. of mono tippet appropriately sized (i.e., 4x leader/5x tippet/fly). Fly. Optional second fly. I gernally use Aquel on my flies, mucillin on my leader (I used to grease my leaders from the loop to the tippet knot, but I don't do that anymore. I've found that I only need to grease from the loop to about a fooot short of the tippet knot). I try to dry my flies with dessicant at least every 8-10 casts, and after every fish hooked.
I had the same problems you seem to be having when I first started about 5 years ago, and your question brought back some half-forgotten memories of the difficulties I had when I first started throwing dries. Now, I'm no expert, but here are some of the things I've learned over the years that might be of some help to you.
Leader/tippet selection is dependent on situation. For example, when I fish small, light patterns I tend towards 4x or 5x leaders. When fishing heavier patterns like hoppers or beetles or cicadas, I use 3x or even 2x (note: you can, of course, cast a #8 hopper with 4x leader, but the fly catches so much air and the leader loses so much speed that they alight on the water much like para- flies, meaning very lightly). Here's the reason: smaller, lighter dries are supposed to drop gently to the water surface, whereas terrestrials like hoppers need to splashdown. 4x/5x leaders allow for softer presentations, while heavier leaders tend to promote heavier landings.
Also, fly size can be dictated by speed of current, water clarity, wind, etc. Generally speaking, the lower the light, the faster the current, murkier the water, and/or windier the conditions, the bigger fly you can use. The reason being, all of these conditions reduce the fish's ability to see either you, your rod, your line, your leader, and sometimes even your fly if it's small enough. You might make multiple perfect presentations, but if all these conditions are working against you, then the fish might just not see your offering. Upsizing might get your fly noticed, and eaten.
If your fly is sinking early (assuming you are mending correctly and on time), then upsize until the fly stays up until the end of the drift.
Another way to keep smaller flies above water is to tie on an 'attractor' fly such as a stimulator or a humpy (#12 or #14), tie on another 2 ft. piece of tippet (either same diameter or down one size) and then your #20 fly. The larger more bouyant attractor fly acts as a 'bridge', preventing your smaller fly from being dragged under so easily. The cons are line twist (I usually try to untwist my line between flies after every 5 casts or so), and increased difficulty performing a good mend. Accuracy can also be a problem depending on how much wind there is on the day in question.
Anyway, don't want to bore you to tears, so I'll finish up there. Hope that helps, and good luck.
Peace.
If you want to save a little money I highly suggest looking into furled leader and then using whatever line you need for tippet. I bought some leaders off Joni, and her leaders are amazing quality, I am in love with them and they lay out so nicely on the water.
I have never fished your area so I really can not comment, but most of the advice on here is good stuff. I personally never use any powders or gels. I just use the rubber trick to flick them around and dry them out. Works fine for me, and obviously once they get so wet it is just easier to swap it out with a new dry one.
Best of luck to you and dont worry about the language we are all adults here for the most part, I wouldnt go around cursing all the time on here, but I personally have been known to have a bit of a sailors mouth, many people claim it is lack of vocabulary, but that is far from the truth for me, I just think it makes my sentences more interesting hahahaha
Best of luck out there, and remember to always have fun, whether you are catching or not. Most of us do this for the stress relief, if I wanted to be stressed fishing I wouldnt leave my office lol
Stu
I have never fished your area so I really can not comment, but most of the advice on here is good stuff. I personally never use any powders or gels. I just use the rubber trick to flick them around and dry them out. Works fine for me, and obviously once they get so wet it is just easier to swap it out with a new dry one.
Best of luck to you and dont worry about the language we are all adults here for the most part, I wouldnt go around cursing all the time on here, but I personally have been known to have a bit of a sailors mouth, many people claim it is lack of vocabulary, but that is far from the truth for me, I just think it makes my sentences more interesting hahahaha
Best of luck out there, and remember to always have fun, whether you are catching or not. Most of us do this for the stress relief, if I wanted to be stressed fishing I wouldnt leave my office lol
Stu
CutThroat Leaders
Business Member
Brandon,
Many of the points / recommendations that I would make have already been mentioned. Having a proper drift / mend is a key factor. Also, decent flies do make a significant difference. I personally do like gel floatants such as Aquel / Gink /etc. Spending a few moments to make sure the floatant is applied appropriately (rub into hackle etc.) and not simply dumped onto the fly also aids in floatation. Make sure the fly is dry prior to applying any floatant. The idea of using a large dry fly as an indicator is a great method for fishing very small flies. Like so many aspects of fly fishing and life, practice will pay huge dividends.
Many of the points / recommendations that I would make have already been mentioned. Having a proper drift / mend is a key factor. Also, decent flies do make a significant difference. I personally do like gel floatants such as Aquel / Gink /etc. Spending a few moments to make sure the floatant is applied appropriately (rub into hackle etc.) and not simply dumped onto the fly also aids in floatation. Make sure the fly is dry prior to applying any floatant. The idea of using a large dry fly as an indicator is a great method for fishing very small flies. Like so many aspects of fly fishing and life, practice will pay huge dividends.