holywaters_ca
Active member
I'm all over the Flexo Crab myself. Nothing better for Permit in Cuba
What's your favorite Permit Fly?
- Thread starter holywaters_ca
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willyf
Well-known member
I hate all of the ones that I've tried. 
sweetandsalt
Well-known member
While I have had success with Enrico Puglisi's hen hackle "Fuzzy Crab", the #1 in my arsenal now is the RF "Sideways Swimming Crab" in smaller sizes for bonefish and bigger for permit. On the strip it streamlines like a crab with folded legs and, on the pause and drop, all those fibers and silicone legs pop out in place.
moucheur2003
Well-known member
That nifty pattern must be be the "sweet" part of "sweetandsalt"! Tying instructions please!?
clogrennane
Well-known member
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Holy waters
What size and colour Flexo Crab in you opinion is best for Permit in Cuba. Going to Cayo Largo Nov 16.
What size and colour Flexo Crab in you opinion is best for Permit in Cuba. Going to Cayo Largo Nov 16.
swampdonkey
Well-known member
Permit don't eat......my flies. Hope you post a trip report from Cuba. I'm envious.
Last couple trips Ive done guides have preferred shrimp patterns.
Last couple trips Ive done guides have preferred shrimp patterns.
oldguide
Well-known member
Hi all.
I do not have a favorite permit fly - I only have one.
There is a long story behind this fly, and anybody interested can have it by e-mail on request.
It is 5800 miles as the bird flies between here and my favorite saltwater destination, Placencia, Belize, Central America. I have been fishing there in 1994, 1999, 2009, and 2013; and if I should ever be able to fish there again (or anywhere else in the Carribean), there will only be one fly I use.
On the first trip, we somehow got to Placencia by accident, because in our travel guide back then it was called "permit capitol of the world"; don´t know if this is true or not - for me it is. I caught my first permit on this trip on a fly I made myself on the spot. I had a very few so-called permit flies with me, but they all were much too big and heavy to be fished (and cast by me) at all on these shallow flats.
So I made up one from a dis-assembled coakroach, which donated a grizzly hackle and the tying thread, a piece of copper wire salvaged from the beach, and some hot-melt glue. And I caught my first permit on this fly on the 5th day of fishing for them. Unfortunately, I lost this fly in another permit I had hooked later on, which I lost in the coral. All day long I was very much reminded of the Goddard&Clark Gerroff, because many times I put this fly in the water a (most of the time small) fish hit it. And I really did want all these unwanted fish to get off of my fly.
On the trip in 2009, we stayed in a lodge on an island. The guide there made us use his crab-like creatures with long rubber legs for two days. On day three I put on my permit fly, which he did not like at all. How was this to change in just a single day. At the end of this day he ripped of my fly from the leader and said: ... least we forget. He had asked me before for one of these flies, because he got quite crazy about how the permit chased this fly. Unfortunately I could not hook one on that day.
This was done at lunch brake on the next day right in front of our cabana, where we had set up on the porch for some rest. I saw a permit tailing, went in my wading boots, grabbed the rod and hooked that fish. It ran out over the rocks and cut me off again. Later I was told by our guide who had watch the fight from his house, and later from our porch, that I should have tried to hold that fish on the flat, becasue it was not much over 10 lbs and could have been landed this way - how should I know.
On the fourth trip, trouble started. I had tried to improve on this fly ever since, and had tied up about 3 dozen for the trip in 2013. In 4 days I hooked another 4 permit; 1 lost to coral, 3 lost to hook breakage. The first break was a MUSTAD hook. My guide said my hooks are sh**. The second was a TIEMCO and the third was a GAMAKATSU, so no specific manufacturer to blame I would say. My suspicion is, these hooks broke due to a reaction of the tin-lead solder I used for weighting these flies and the stianless steel hook in combination witht he warm saltwater.
If I should go back, I hope to have solved this problem of saltwater-tin/lead-stainless-steel-failure.
Right now I am experimenting with small dumbell eyes tied in the middle of the hook under the hot-melt glue body. Or maybe I will go to non-stainless hooks, or another kind of weighting the fly. Even back to the good old copper, which did not seem to be affected by this. I have made these flies in sizes from #2 to #8; the #8 is on Partridge grey shadow streamer hooks, and these did not show any of the problem, although, the fish I targeted with this size were bonefish.
In summary, in about 20 days of fishing the flats, with about half of this time dedicated to looking for permit, this fly has caught my first permit, and hooked at least 10 more.
OOPs, got a quite long post - I hope you enjoyed my little story about Placenica permit.
I will try to load up a pic on the gallery for all interested how this wonder-fly looks. And I even have a name: Miss P. No 2 (because the boat I caught my first permit from was called Miss P., and the first of these flies was on a #2 hook)
Best,
Wolfgang
I do not have a favorite permit fly - I only have one.
There is a long story behind this fly, and anybody interested can have it by e-mail on request.
It is 5800 miles as the bird flies between here and my favorite saltwater destination, Placencia, Belize, Central America. I have been fishing there in 1994, 1999, 2009, and 2013; and if I should ever be able to fish there again (or anywhere else in the Carribean), there will only be one fly I use.
On the first trip, we somehow got to Placencia by accident, because in our travel guide back then it was called "permit capitol of the world"; don´t know if this is true or not - for me it is. I caught my first permit on this trip on a fly I made myself on the spot. I had a very few so-called permit flies with me, but they all were much too big and heavy to be fished (and cast by me) at all on these shallow flats.
So I made up one from a dis-assembled coakroach, which donated a grizzly hackle and the tying thread, a piece of copper wire salvaged from the beach, and some hot-melt glue. And I caught my first permit on this fly on the 5th day of fishing for them. Unfortunately, I lost this fly in another permit I had hooked later on, which I lost in the coral. All day long I was very much reminded of the Goddard&Clark Gerroff, because many times I put this fly in the water a (most of the time small) fish hit it. And I really did want all these unwanted fish to get off of my fly.
On the trip in 2009, we stayed in a lodge on an island. The guide there made us use his crab-like creatures with long rubber legs for two days. On day three I put on my permit fly, which he did not like at all. How was this to change in just a single day. At the end of this day he ripped of my fly from the leader and said: ... least we forget. He had asked me before for one of these flies, because he got quite crazy about how the permit chased this fly. Unfortunately I could not hook one on that day.
This was done at lunch brake on the next day right in front of our cabana, where we had set up on the porch for some rest. I saw a permit tailing, went in my wading boots, grabbed the rod and hooked that fish. It ran out over the rocks and cut me off again. Later I was told by our guide who had watch the fight from his house, and later from our porch, that I should have tried to hold that fish on the flat, becasue it was not much over 10 lbs and could have been landed this way - how should I know.
On the fourth trip, trouble started. I had tried to improve on this fly ever since, and had tied up about 3 dozen for the trip in 2013. In 4 days I hooked another 4 permit; 1 lost to coral, 3 lost to hook breakage. The first break was a MUSTAD hook. My guide said my hooks are sh**. The second was a TIEMCO and the third was a GAMAKATSU, so no specific manufacturer to blame I would say. My suspicion is, these hooks broke due to a reaction of the tin-lead solder I used for weighting these flies and the stianless steel hook in combination witht he warm saltwater.
If I should go back, I hope to have solved this problem of saltwater-tin/lead-stainless-steel-failure.
Right now I am experimenting with small dumbell eyes tied in the middle of the hook under the hot-melt glue body. Or maybe I will go to non-stainless hooks, or another kind of weighting the fly. Even back to the good old copper, which did not seem to be affected by this. I have made these flies in sizes from #2 to #8; the #8 is on Partridge grey shadow streamer hooks, and these did not show any of the problem, although, the fish I targeted with this size were bonefish.
In summary, in about 20 days of fishing the flats, with about half of this time dedicated to looking for permit, this fly has caught my first permit, and hooked at least 10 more.
OOPs, got a quite long post - I hope you enjoyed my little story about Placenica permit.
I will try to load up a pic on the gallery for all interested how this wonder-fly looks. And I even have a name: Miss P. No 2 (because the boat I caught my first permit from was called Miss P., and the first of these flies was on a #2 hook)
Best,
Wolfgang
sweetandsalt
Well-known member
Please do post an image of your fly, we would all love to see it.
holywaters_ca
Active member
clogrennane
Flexo crab #2,... tan.
The mesh allows the Fly to drop straight and Flat down to the bottom, and skitter when you retrieve it.
Got 3 permit in one day with that fly out of Cayo coco. Quite a day, quite a day.
you can see it here: http://guidesforflyfishing.com/files/2013/10/Flexo-Crab-web1-480x320.jpg
Flexo crab #2,... tan.
The mesh allows the Fly to drop straight and Flat down to the bottom, and skitter when you retrieve it.
Got 3 permit in one day with that fly out of Cayo coco. Quite a day, quite a day.
you can see it here: http://guidesforflyfishing.com/files/2013/10/Flexo-Crab-web1-480x320.jpg
sweetandsalt
Well-known member
I weight the hook with bead chain or dumb bell depending on sink rate intended a little further back from the hook eye than usual. A clump of three silicone legs is then tied in and separated both at the bend and eye and two cross pieces of the same at 1/3 and 2/3rds. A couple of fluffy, barred, marabou like, hen saddle hackles are then affixed fore of the bend, coarse dubbing with a bit of translucency is then wound as a body and locking the 10 silicone "legs" in place followed by a generous, wide cut strip of bunny fur in front of the dumb bells followed by some finishing dubbing. It is that simple and tied in the color of crabs prevalent in your angling location...usually tan with bits of mottling olive, brown even orange in the Bahamas. A sparse clump of pearlescent Mylar flash can be tied in before the bunny fur if any flash is desired but keep it very sparse.
I've been developing this design for a number of years and it is not locked in place, I continue to vary and experiment with it. Strip it as little as possible. I like to drop it in front of the fish, give a long slow strip to take any slack out of line and leader and let the fly dive toward the bottom like a crab sensing danger and heading for the safety of the soft marle. Seeing a bonefish or permit turn, light up and tilt on and inhale the fly lest it escape is a reward I hunger for.
RF's Sideways Swimming Crab
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oldguide
Well-known member
hi all.
hope this works. not so good in posting pictures, but the fly is also shown in my gallery, which I hope you can view. this is a pic of a fly in wet state. the tail is made of white rabbit fur (on the first ones it was white marabou). in my gallery you can also see some in dry state. I always wet the fly before casting.
as you can see, it is a shrimp imitation. this may be the reason why the fish chase it, which makes hook-up much easier as with a crab pattern, which you are supposed to let drop when a permit sees it, and just can hope for striking at the right moment.
best,
Wolfgang
p.s.: this fly is not easy, but if you want I can send tying instructions by pm or e-mail to all interested to try.
hope this works. not so good in posting pictures, but the fly is also shown in my gallery, which I hope you can view. this is a pic of a fly in wet state. the tail is made of white rabbit fur (on the first ones it was white marabou). in my gallery you can also see some in dry state. I always wet the fly before casting.
as you can see, it is a shrimp imitation. this may be the reason why the fish chase it, which makes hook-up much easier as with a crab pattern, which you are supposed to let drop when a permit sees it, and just can hope for striking at the right moment.
best,
Wolfgang
p.s.: this fly is not easy, but if you want I can send tying instructions by pm or e-mail to all interested to try.
moucheur2003
Well-known member
I'd love to see the tying instructions. Please send me a PM. Thanks!
oldguide
Well-known member
Hi all you permit fishermen and women out there.
I got quite a few requests for the tying instructions; since this is not an easy fly, it is not easy to describe how to make one. For this reason, I decided to do the instructions with pictures. Please give me a few days for this. I will post here.
Thanks,
Wolfgang
I got quite a few requests for the tying instructions; since this is not an easy fly, it is not easy to describe how to make one. For this reason, I decided to do the instructions with pictures. Please give me a few days for this. I will post here.
Thanks,
Wolfgang
moucheur2003
Well-known member
Danke sehr Wolfi, Sie sind ein toller Mensch!
oldguide
Well-known member
hi all.
after several requests about the tying instructions for this fly, I have done my first-ever full description of the tying steps with pictures for a fly. sorry this took a few days - taking pictures and finding out how to post this within the text was also new to me.
this is not an easy fly, but I hope the posting is detailed enough to lead you through. let me know if it worked, and also if you need some help. I will try my best.
and do not give up too soon. the hot-melt glue is not an easy material to work with, you have to get used to it. I know there is epoxy and all, but I hate this stuff - the fast set is usually too fast, and the slow set keeps on running. in contrast to epoxy, the hot-melt glue stays a little soft. maybe the fish like this - while a crab may have a tough shell, no shrimp is hard as rocks. in addition, I think the buoyancy of the hot-melt glue is adding a crucial feature to this fly. due to this, a pull on the line makes the fly move up a little in the water; maybe this up-and-down is what the fish like, who knows ... it sure makes the fly much easier to fish than all the heavier, fast sinking flies. and the striking is also quite easy: you get a take, feel it, and strike.
anybody interested in how to tie my favorite permit fly can have a look in the fly tying pages. look for instructions for Miss P. No 2.
and yes, you have to keep these flies out of the carribean sun.
best,
Wolfgang
after several requests about the tying instructions for this fly, I have done my first-ever full description of the tying steps with pictures for a fly. sorry this took a few days - taking pictures and finding out how to post this within the text was also new to me.
this is not an easy fly, but I hope the posting is detailed enough to lead you through. let me know if it worked, and also if you need some help. I will try my best.
and do not give up too soon. the hot-melt glue is not an easy material to work with, you have to get used to it. I know there is epoxy and all, but I hate this stuff - the fast set is usually too fast, and the slow set keeps on running. in contrast to epoxy, the hot-melt glue stays a little soft. maybe the fish like this - while a crab may have a tough shell, no shrimp is hard as rocks. in addition, I think the buoyancy of the hot-melt glue is adding a crucial feature to this fly. due to this, a pull on the line makes the fly move up a little in the water; maybe this up-and-down is what the fish like, who knows ... it sure makes the fly much easier to fish than all the heavier, fast sinking flies. and the striking is also quite easy: you get a take, feel it, and strike.
anybody interested in how to tie my favorite permit fly can have a look in the fly tying pages. look for instructions for Miss P. No 2.
and yes, you have to keep these flies out of the carribean sun.
best,
Wolfgang
moucheur2003
Well-known member
Thank you for all the effort!
You Miss P. No. 2 looks somewhat similar to a Greg's Flats Fly (tying instructions here: Do It Yourself Bonefishing » Fly Series – Greg’s Flats Fly). If the hook weakness you were experiencing was indeed caused by a chemical reaction among your metal materials, perhaps you could avoid that by adapting some of the construction techniques from the Greg's Flats Fly to your pattern, especially the weighted eyes. When I tie the Flats Fly, I clip the hackle from the bottom and give it a coat or two of UV resin over the plastic rib and clipped hackle, which seems to hold pretty well -- similar to what you do with hot glue, but perhaps more durable in the hot tropical sun.
I kinda tie a cross between a inverted merkin and a cravin's flip flop.
This is NOT my pic (I'll try to post one when I get home from work of one of my actual flies), but this is similar with the hackle for pinchers, marabou and knotted rubber legs, couple of strands of long krystal flash for "bubbles" that the fleeing crabs make, etc.
BTW do yourselves a HUGE favor and when making crabs, tarpon toads and other patterns where you use segments or yarn or fibers, get some of the EP crustacean bushs. Literally cuts 5 minutes off per fly (I'm not associated with EP in any way).
J-
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This is NOT my pic (I'll try to post one when I get home from work of one of my actual flies), but this is similar with the hackle for pinchers, marabou and knotted rubber legs, couple of strands of long krystal flash for "bubbles" that the fleeing crabs make, etc.
BTW do yourselves a HUGE favor and when making crabs, tarpon toads and other patterns where you use segments or yarn or fibers, get some of the EP crustacean bushs. Literally cuts 5 minutes off per fly (I'm not associated with EP in any way).
J-
moucheur2003
Well-known member
But knotting all those legs adds it right back!
I tied some similar crabs last week with an EP brush. It includes little wiggly rubber or silicone fibers along with the stiffer Antron or whatever it is. After I wrapped the brush, but before I trimmed the body to shape, I grabbed the fiber tips and pulled; some of the stretchy fibers stretched out in my fingers while everything else stayed in place. I pulled the stretchy ones out of the way while I trimmed the other body fibers to shape. The longer stretchy fibers make pretty good legs with a lot less fuss.
Not when you have a 10 and 13 year old that have no problem helping out, lol, but its just like knotting hopper legs, the more you do it the quicker you get at it.
J-