loop to loop connection for large Tarpon

[laut]

I am going after those Costa Rica Tarpon this fall. I would like to know what is the best way to create a loop on the fly line that can stand up for those big 100+ lb Tarpons. I am looking into the nail knots on the folded fly line method but I have heard that this loop doesn't hold up for big fish. Any suggestions? Thank you

 

[MoscaPescador]

You are correct. That nail knot will not hold up. You can use a braided loop made of 50 pound braided monofilament.

I would skip the loop. Create a three foot butt section of 30 to 40 pound monofilament. On the end of that, you should have a loop made from a Bimini Twist. Connect that butt section to the fly line using an Albright Knot. From there, you can make speedy loop to loop connections to your class tippet.

MP

 

[sandfly]

mosa is right on, It ain't pretty but it works great.

 

[laut]

You are correct. That nail knot will not hold up. You can use a braided loop made of 50 pound braided monofilament.

I would skip the loop. Create a three foot butt section of 30 to 40 pound monofilament. On the end of that, you should have a loop made from a Bimini Twist. Connect that butt section to the fly line using an Albright Knot. From there, you can make speedy loop to loop connections to your class tippet.

MP

How about the other end of the fly line ? How do I connecting it to the backing?
Thank you

 

[wjc]

I do a loop to loop for the backing. If you are using hollow braid I'd use a blind splice on the backing. If Jerry Brown hollow Gel Spun or micron, I'd use three blind splices to create a double loop.

The most common method with solid core gel spun is a bimini , but prior to twisting up the bimini, slide a sleeve onto the gel spun made from 120# braid to keep the gel spun from cutting the fly line loop. You can also make your own loops on the fly line itself if you don't trust the factory loops. Either using guidbrod braided mono chinese finger trap method, or trolling braid using the same method. The latter is much quieter going throught the guides.

Tie the braid sleeve onto the gel spun with 10lb mono nail knots and put a dab of superglue on them. Keep the braid sllightly off center so the ends do not go through the guides at the same time.

Cheers,
Jim

---------- Post added at 03:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

Mosca,

After you do a bimini on gel spun, do you use a three turn surgeon's knot or something to get a doubled loop in the gel spun so it doesn't cut into the fly line side loop?

Cheers,
Jim

 

[MoscaPescador]

For whatever reason, I cannot get Biminis to set as nicely as I want on gelspun (GSP), so I use a double loop triple surgeon's knot. On another board, Lefty Kreh posted that he prefers this knot on GSP. He had issues of GSP Biminis not having that great of knot strength compared to the surgeon's loop knot.

As for the back end of the fly line, I use a braided loop made from 50 pound Gudebrod Butt Material. I make the loop fairly small (less than a half inch), and I have about three inches of butt material spliced inside for plenty of surface area to hold the loop. For the tag end of the loop, I make it at least 10 inches and secure it with two nail knots of 8 pound monofilament. I glue down the knots with Rio UV Knot Sealer. Many prefer to use Pliobond because it is highly flexible. The extra length makes for more surface area for the Chinese finger puzzle to grab onto the line.

MP

 

[wjc]

I dragged this up again in case any saltwater guys are intimidated by braided mono loops. I made a video and stuck in on another site and figured I'd put it up here too.

I just started using them last year after I had a factory welded loop come apart somehow (not with a fish on). I tried pre-made braided loops several years ago, and the first one I tried fell apart, so I quit using them and went back to double nail knot loops. But after a buddy showed me how to do them, I checked out the remaining factory one in the package I had, and discovered they made it wrong.

So I started making them myself and have caught a lot of big fish using them, with straight 60lb fluoro leaders and poking the wood to them without any problem. I believe they are the best connection possible for big fish, on both ends of the fly line as well as to splice running lines onto WF heads.

Here's that video if anyone is interested. No special tools are needed other than 3' of 0.012" (or thereabouts) leader wire.

In the video, I only finished it with one nail knot, but use two of them on the end of the loop about 1/2" apart with 8 or 10 lb mono when doing it for real.

http://www.miterclamp.com/videos/blind_loop.wmv

Cheers,
Jim

 

[seajay]

Great Video Jim. The editing is to funny.

 

[Capt. JMoore]

And away we go… I’m actually in the process today of rigging for our Nicaraguan tarpon trip… fish in that 130 - 200 pound range… We use 80 pound GSP… Triple surgeons loop from GSP (agree with Lefty) to the fly line (with the “double pass with a twist” of the line spool to allow the GSP to “squeeze” the end loop of the fly line versus cut into the apex of the fly line loop)…
Absolutely nothing against the Bimini twist… I love that knot… Just not for GSP in this scenario.

…although it HAS held for me… I do get nervous with nail knots for these big girls, if needed …it would be a double nail knot, and glued obviously…

whatever works… Works… that’s just my take on it…

(cue the leader conversation…)

.02¢

 

[original cormorant]

(with the “double pass with a twist” of the line spool to allow the GSP to “squeeze” the end loop of the fly line versus cut into the apex of the fly line loop)

50lb gudebrod braided loops whipped on rather than nail knotted for me. Doubled bimini in the backing (ie 4 strands) for the loop to loop, As above the loop to loop on both ends needs to be a catspaw with two passes so it grips onto the sides of the braided loop.

I haven't trusted fly line loops (whipped or welded) for big fish since I had one cut through by mono on loop to loop 20 odd years ago.

Unless you know better use the leader recommended by the guide.

 

[okaloosa]

50lb gudebrod braided loops whipped on rather than nail knotted for me. Doubled bimini in the backing (ie 4 strands) for the loop to loop, As above the loop to loop on both ends needs to be a catspaw with two passes so it grips onto the sides of the braided loop.

I haven't trusted fly line loops (whipped or welded) for big fish since I had one cut through by mono on loop to loop 20 odd years ago.

Unless you know better use the leader recommended by the guide.

IMO there is no better substitution for doing exactly as @original cormorant described...
That is exactly what worked for me for all the big tarpon and pacific sail fly fishing I have done...

 

[fishordie]

Good morning Laut,

I have been using hollow-core Spectra backing or other names some manufacturers use for around 20 years on all of my fishing tackle both fly fishing and conventional..Prior to that time I used solid core, braided lines (Well prior to Spectra and Dyneema) that my Dad and I got from the Govt or primes for development back in the 60's. Since I never use class tippet when targeting the big Tarpon or GT I create a knotless loop in the end of the 80 - 100 pound test hollow Spectra backing where it meets the fly line. There are a variety of websites that teach how to do this connection but the best one I know of is BHPtackle.com. I tend to use a minimum of 100 pound test leader and a strong core fly line so I can put the wood to the fish using proper body mechanics and angles on the fly rod in relation to my body to really put massive pressure on the fish (Yes even on a fly rod). IMO the strength of this connection is unrivaled for ease of use, ease of changing out the leaders and most importantly strength. Additionally I do use a nail knot on my fly line welded loops, on both ends, to insure these welded loops hold up to the force I am inducing.. I have never had one of these connections break in all these years. On your plastic leader you can tie your choice of loop knot while I use a Perfection loop on mine. I have noticed I do not need any soft of buffering plait knot with my setups..

Note: I have seen very few folks who can actually tie a proper Bimini Twist on land let alone a rocking flats boat. Additionally, the loop resulting from this connection tends to be large whereas I can get a very small loop on the hollow core Spectra knotless connection.. Just less loop to catch sea junk on.

Yes, I know that many guides want a lighter strength breaking section in the leader in case something goes wrong on the angler's side but I have never had that issue nor will I get pulled over the side should something bad happen.(Hopefully I did not just curse myself) . Most of my big Tarpon work is in more open flats but even in tighter mangroves my guides know that I do not have the problem of breakoffs that can leave a bunch of line trailing from a big fish which may eventually drown it.. The guides love how quickly we can land big fish using the techniques and gear I have noted. The result of less time on the fish helps insure the safe and more healthy release of those big yet somewhat fragile Tarpon..

Getting efficient power onto the hook end of the equation is something few folks teach. I happen to teach these methods almost daily on the Conventional and Spin side of the industry both at fishing shows like we just had as well as at the shop on donate time to when I am in town and not out fishing (Bob Sands Tackle in Van Nuys, Ca.). I remember seeing old fly fishing videos of guys using Bamboo rods for giants where they talked about driving their rod hand into the tip of the rod to get maximum bend and recoil.. For this angler, those days are long gone as my Nautilus reels create a ton of drag (I generally max out those drags) and that technique can often cause injury to both the rod and angler. I have been teaching and employing how to flat rod or light bend a fly rod to put more efficient and dynamic power against big fish without thrashing the angler for decades.. Just like proper body positions, angles, alignment of joints and foot positions in most all other sports, such as Baseball and Golf, the ability of the angler to use more efficient and proper body alignment on both the casting and especially the fish fighting side of equation makes a huge difference resulting in faster landing times and less intrusion on the angler's body.. It is no problem putting the full 22 - 25 pounds or so of drag my big fish reels generate onto a 11 or 12 wt rod properly set up for big fish.

Again, Just my opinion and what works for me..

Very best of luck on your trip and your decision making..

 

[joelp]

we do loop connections out of hollow core and feed all of the mono/fluoro into them finished with nail knot and super glue for the leaders for our bluewater conventional fishing. tons of videos out there and everything comes out perfectly clean and flows through the guides with zero issue. if/when i get the chance to get back after big saltwater species, i'll be going with the hollow core loops wherever possible. they're just too slick.

 

[falconer57]

I would NOT use red, orange or yellow lashing on fly line loops, whether making the loop or reinforcing the factory loop. I have had several instances of "other" fish biting off the fly line while fighting the fish on the hook.

 

[Wet dreams]

Dan Blanton has fished Costa Rica many times since the 70's, his methods are well proven. I think the main difference is the double leg loop portion, out and back in. Here is a link: http://www.danblanton.com/blog/getting-looped/

I like this for backing to fly line. For the leader connections I do an improved double nail knot, two nail knots and then an overhand knot in the core to lock it in. But other lines have the loop connection for the leader.

I would like to hear more about your trip as I am hopefully going sometime,

 

[okiekev]

Just putting this out there for those who have added amazing insight into this thread, but the thread is 13 years old and the OP only posted 8 times since then... I wouldn't hold my breath on acknowledgement from the OP...

That being said, I love the insight you guys have shared recently. I have not had an issue with a nail knot through the factory welded loop but you have all given me something to think about.

 

[Capt. JMoore]

I dragged this up again in case any saltwater guys are intimidated by braided mono loops. I made a video and stuck in on another site and figured I'd put it up here too.

I just started using them last year after I had a factory welded loop come apart somehow (not with a fish on). I tried pre-made braided loops several years ago, and the first one I tried fell apart, so I quit using them and went back to double nail knot loops. But after a buddy showed me how to do them, I checked out the remaining factory one in the package I had, and discovered they made it wrong.

So I started making them myself and have caught a lot of big fish using them, with straight 60lb fluoro leaders and poking the wood to them without any problem. I believe they are the best connection possible for big fish, on both ends of the fly line as well as to splice running lines onto WF heads.

Here's that video if anyone is interested. No special tools are needed other than 3' of 0.012" (or thereabouts) leader wire.

In the video, I only finished it with one nail knot, but use two of them on the end of the loop about 1/2" apart with 8 or 10 lb mono when doing it for real.

http://www.miterclamp.com/videos/blind_loop.wmv

Cheers,
Jim

Hi Jim, your video isn't wanting to load for me. Any chance I can get you to resend?.. thx j

 

[Acheron]

Hi Jim, your video isn't wanting to load for me. Any chance I can get you to resend?.. thx j

Right click on it then choose "Save Link As..". The dialog that pops up will ask you where to save it on your computer, it probably defaults to your Downloads folder, so you can just click the "Save" button without changing anything. After the download, you might receive a small pop up which asks you if you want to keep the file, you will need to click on Yes or Keep.

Then open your Downloads folder and double click on the file named "blind_loop.wmv".

The audio is worth the listen

 

[toronto_angler]

I'm actually glad this thread was resurrected. Some great info!

 

[JoJer]

You are correct. That nail knot will not hold up. You can use a braided loop made of 50 pound braided monofilament.

I would skip the loop. Create a three foot butt section of 30 to 40 pound monofilament. On the end of that, you should have a loop made from a Bimini Twist. Connect that butt section to the fly line using an Albright Knot. From there, you can make speedy loop to loop connections to your class tippet.

MP

This is what Lefty told me (in his book).