Gel-spun vs Dacron Backing

[houli]

I'm outfitting my new Lamson Guru 3.0 reel and not sure what to get. I'd like to have versatility of both fresh and salt so leaning toward GSP to get more capacity on the reel (manufacturer says 150 yds of 20# - assuming dacron here).

Anyone have an opinion here? Go with 20lb Dacron, 30lb GSP or 45lb GSP? How much GSP is enough for salt (schoolie striper, smallish bonefish/redfish etc.)

Thanks.

 

[bigjim5589]

Gel spun has a smaller diameter than dacron, so you'll got more on the reel, but it's also more expensive, although how much more I don't know. If you feel you really need the extra backing & can afford the extra cost. Go with the GSP.

What we choose for backing boils down to intended use & what we can afford.

If you're married it might even be a matter of what cost you can justify!

For me, I use regular 30lb dacron trolling line for backing on my larger reels. I have some 15 & 20 lb Micron backing on some of the smaller reels. I likely lose a little capacity with the regular dacron, but not enough to worry about for the fishing I do most. The regular dacron is slightly cheaper in price, and I bought a 1200 yard spool of it. I could probably have used 20lb but got a great price on the 30, and again the capacity difference is not an issue. I don't feel the GSP is worth the added cost for my purpose, so stick with dacron. :thumbsup:

 

[houli]

My use will be 80% Freshwater (SMB & LMB) and 20% salt (Chesapeake Bay/OBX) .... that make a difference in what you'd recommend?

Price isn't a big issue ...... just want to be prepared for what I may run into.

 

[bigjim5589]

Not really. In the salt, there's always the possibility of hooking up with a fish that can strip the reel. It happens. Where I fish most, farther up towards the middle of the Chesapeake, & more so in the rivers & creeks, there's less chance of it happening. You get down close to the mouth of the bay & at OBX, there can be some fish at certain times of the year that could possibly give you trouble. Should it happen, nothing you can do about it. That's fishing!

As best as we try to prepare for the worst scenerio's, there's no way we can cover them all. If you feel it's possible you might get into Albacore or some of the other strong speedsters, and price is not an issue then definitely go with the GSP. Either will work for most fishing & species in those areas.

I primarily fish for both SM & LM bass, Striped Bass & Bluefish. Have even tried Redfish in SC, but have yet to hook up on one. I've caught Flounder & Seatrout, plus other species on flies too. None of them are known for stripping reels, as long as you have a reasonable backing capacity, you're as prepared as you can be. IMO you have it covered as best you can. :thumbsup:

 

[houli]

what would you say is safe capacity? 100 yds .... 150 yds .... 200 yds?

 

[okuma]

Let's say you put 150 yards of either gel spun or dacron on a reel. Okay, so that's 1 and 1/2 football fields. If you're not moblie by either a boat of some type, or running like all get out...chances are the fish will win.

 

[houli]

hahaha - well put.

 

[bigjim5589]

what would you say is safe capacity? 100 yds .... 150 yds .... 200 yds?

Not sure what you mean. Safe for a LM bass is certainly going to be different than safe for a 150lb Tarpon. I feel you should fill the reel to capacity, making sure you do it properly, leaving sufficient room for the fly line not to be bound up in the reel. Only way I know to do it, is to wind the line on first, then connect the backing & wind it on, then once you get it to where it should be, strip it all off & reverse it. A bit time consuming, but better than guessing.

If the manufacturer says the reel holds 150 yards of 20 lb backing, and you use less backing, you're really not taking advantage of the reels design. Then in that case, your initial question & concern would have been a moot point.

Again, it gets back to the usage. I know the reels I use have more capacity than I need for the fish species I chase most, yet I still fill the reels. Yes, still always that chance of hooking something that's going to strip me, but in my case, even though I feel that chance is slim, the extra capacity is cheap insurance.

You could certainly be OK with less backing for the fish you intend to chase, but since the capacity is there, why not use it?

Funny, two guys I know who use very high end reels, with large capacities have told me they've both had their line stripped in the past while fishing for Stripers. Unfortunately, both got fouled hooked into the propellers of passing boats. Not something you can prepare for, or do anything about when it happens but stuff like that does sometimes happen.

 

[Joni]

Hey, you only buy Backing ONCE, I say go for the Gel. Man, it is hard as heck to cut with scissors.

 

[Rip Tide]

Around here it's recommended that you have a minimun of of 150 yards of backing on your reel...
I know for a fact that that's someones fly fishing fantasy and that most of us will never see the 75 yard mark, if you're extremely lucky (or unskilled) 100
On my reels, if I can fit any more than 100 yards of micron, I'm satisfied

 

[swirlchaser]

I've caught Stripers to 40lbs from the surf and never used more than 100yds of backing however I had a 10-12lb Albie (Bonita) take a 100+yds of backing. I normally carry 150 or better. What's your window of opportunity for catching an Albie on the fly from the beach? 3-4 weeks in the fall. You may never see all of your backing but like Joni said, your only going to buy it once and you'll probably hate yourself if you get down to your arbor knot...

 

[chuck s]

Some general comments first from Max Garth a braid guru. He posted this on another board: :thumbsupu
"One of the problems doing diameter measurements on GsP braids is that some are not round braids but are flat and when you measure the diameter you measure the flat side of things. If you take the practical measure, a 30lb GsP round braid, that is 8 carriers 8 piks, you will get more of it on a fly reel spool that 30lb dacron by a factor of 2.4.
If you use 50lb GsP round braid it you will get 1.8 times more of it on a reel than 30lb Dacron.
There are a huge variety of GsP braids but they are all made, braided, from the same fibre, Spectra or Dyneema is the same stuff and the diameter depends wholly and solely on the braid weave formula. They are not all the same.
Bionic Braid for example uses a very thin fibre, a low denier fibre, and since it's braided to meet the same diameter criteria as a 8x8 30lb braid it will have a breaking strain of 42lb. If its compared with 50lb it will break at 76lb.
The basic difficulty with laying down specifs for GsP braids is that, because of the small diameter and extra slippery material it need to loaded under pressure and crosshatched every 6 layers to prevent layer slip.
Then you need to remember that GsP braids in the 20lb class and under have very bad abrasion resistance, and it directly related to line diameter."

I've heard from many others that Bionic Braid is the best but I've never found it available.

With that said I've found through trail and error that I do prefer the 50 lb GSP and have used Power Pro and a couple others. As he indicated it's best if you cross hatch as you spool it.:thumbsup: It's diameter is about .75 times the 20 lb micron that many use for backing so you'll get substantially more on your spool over Micron. That is also large enough to keep any finger cutting to a minimum and strong enough to prevent losing my fly line for even my 12 weight lines which have a 35 lb test core. The heaviest tippet I use is the heaviest class standard IGFA recommends and allows at 22 lbs. Therefore even with a snagged fly and the boat/tide moving us out the class tippet breaks and not the line or backing. :secret: By the way the cut off for backing testing 20 lbs would be a six weight line or so as most seven weight lines and up have a heavier core than that.:icon_cool

As far as using that backing I have nearly been spooled a couple times, once with a 35 lb plus redfish on shallow water flat adjacent to a tidal channel with a strong outgoing flow while wading with my Seven weight and once with a big cat in heavy water that was finally broken off as the arbor came in sight. In both cases I was using 12 lb test Ande (testing over 15 lbs) as my tippet and when the line parted with the cat it did so in the tippet area. The Red I finally landed even though it did get into that channel a couple times nearly spooling me and when landed it bottomed out my Boga Grip before it was released to fight another day!:thumbsupu

 

[houli]

Sounds like I'm not going to go wrong either way (150 yds of 20# dacron or 250 yds of 30/35/45/50 lb GSP). Orvis down the street has 2 different types of GSP (both pretty pricey: 35lb = $24/200yd - 50lb = $65/400yd - 30lb Hi Viz = $30/200yd - 45lb Hi Viz = $59/400yd) and a braided dacron that's much cheaper (20lb = $7.50/150 yd). Thinking I may go with dacron for this reel and maybe down the road when i pick up a bigger salt water specific setup for a 9wt+ I'll go GSP.

As it was said here - if i hookup with something that runs me 150 yds into the backing w/o being able to turn its head ..... fish wins.

That said - do i stick with 20# or move up? I'm lining one spool with SA Mastery Bass Bug 7wt and the other with SA Master Wet Tip Express 250gr.

 

[okuma]

(personal preference)...I've always used 20 lb. dacron. Even in NY for salmon. Except one time, I got a brain fart and opted to use a ton of braided spider wire line. Lemme tell you, this stuff gives a whole new meaning to "burn" when a 25 lb. fish decides to run your backing through your fingers....NEVER again...:yikes:

 

[chuck s]

Back to what I said above but hopefully a bit more clear. Here's a Rio Link--go to it and when you find your fly line, click specifications, you'll find, for instance, that Rio's 6 and 7 weight lines have a core of 25 lb test. Tie that to your arbor with 20 lb backing where your knot strength will be down closer to 17-18 lb test and you risk losing a fly line when your backing parts. The 20 lb backing is for five weight and under fly lines.

Smallmouth Bass Fly Line | Rio

 

[wjc]

As with most things, it depends. How much you're willing to spend; what you will be fishing for and where, where is the range where strength and capacity meet your requirements. And with gell spun, how worried are you about cutting yourself.

As far as the cost part, as Joni said, it's a one time purchase and can outlast reels.

As for the where, I have a buddy who's been a saltwarer guide for almost 40 years and he uses 120lb gel spun on his 12 for tarpon. The reason is to avoid backing being cut by barnicles on bridge pilings.

For the 12 he uses for bluewater, he uses lighter backing and more of it in case he hooks onto a big wahoo or something which can spool you before you know what happened.

As for tippet strength exceeding fly line core strength, I don't worry about that. I don't use flies with 3x strong hooks. Lighter wire hooks will straighten, snap off or pull out well below the fly line breaking strength.

The big difference between fly line strength and tippet strength is that the fly line is never in actual contact with the fish and never gets tail slapped, tail wrapped, bill wrapped , gnawed on, or gill raked .

But the difference between baking strength and fly line strength in actual usage is much less, and I'd give the edge to the fly line. So I like to keep the backing strength well above the stated line core strength for salt water.

I like the hollow spectra since moving to it because it's silky smooth, lays flat, and doesn't bother my fingers that much (65# test) when winding it in. It also is very easy to make knotless splices and loops, so it can be cut back and fixed if it gets damaged. But the same thing can be done with dacron too.

Just get something on there and go fishin.

Cheers,
Jim

 

[chuck s]

For those who may not know. Along with the standard size designations for hooks we have a wire size/strength factor also. When you see hooks with 2x or 2x strong it means the hook is constructed of wire as thick as the preceeding size. For example, a 3x is as thick as a couple of sizes up. This type of hook is designed to give smaller hooks more power.

A 2x 4/0 hook for instance, has a wire as thick as a 5/0 hook. A 3x 4/0 hook has the strength as a 6/0 hook, and so on. These hooks are most useful for live baiting. Sometimes a large hook can kill a fish, so the small but extra strong ones are used.

Above and beyond that we also have another x factor for length.
The 2x hook shank comes with a shank two times longer than the usual hook while the 3x has a shank that is three times longer than an ordinary hook of the same size.

Other than that stainless hooks are softer but don't rust as easily in the box while your standard bronze hook is harder and will rust out of a fishes mouth should it be broken off much quicker.

Lastly, hook makers wire varies so a Gamakatsu may not be the hook a Tiemco 600SP is and that may not be a Msutand at all when it comes to straightening the hook for any reason.

 

[Bonefishdick]

If your mostly L/M bass you will never see the backing. If you have a reel that will hold 200 yds of 20 lb dacron you will be set for just about anything.

I live in the NE and do Stripers Blues and Albies and have never been close to being spooled. Never even came close to getting spooled by Bonefish.

I keep hoping to have the day were I meet the fish that will spool me.

Dacron can cut you fairly easily, it will usually burn some first , but Gel Spun will cut you without the burn.